Olivia: Alright Jackson, I’m going to say a name: Alastair Campbell. What’s the first thing that comes to mind? Jackson: Tony Blair’s famously intense political strategist. I’m picturing a guy who probably thinks winning an argument at breakfast is a key performance indicator for the day. Olivia: That is probably not far from the truth! And it’s that exact mindset that he channels into his book, which became a huge bestseller, Winners: And How They Succeed. Jackson: Ah, so he’s taking his political playbook and trying to make it a universal guide to life? Olivia: Exactly. He’s drawing on his experience winning three general elections, but what makes this book so fascinating is that he also sits down with this wild mix of people—from football manager José Mourinho and Vogue editor Anna Wintour to the undefeated boxer Floyd Mayweather—trying to find a common thread. Jackson: Okay, I’m immediately skeptical. Can the person who managed media spin for a Prime Minister really tell me what makes an elite athlete or a fashion icon tick? It feels like a stretch. Olivia: That is the central question, isn't it? And Campbell’s answer is a surprisingly simple, almost rigid, framework. He argues that all winners, regardless of their field, are masters of what he calls the "Holy Trinity": Strategy, Leadership, and Teamship. Jackson: The Holy Trinity. Wow, he doesn't lack for confidence. Olivia: Not at all. And at the heart of that trinity is his core formula, which he calls OST: Objective, Strategy, and Tactics. It sounds a bit like a corporate retreat PowerPoint slide, I know. Jackson: It really does. I’m already picturing the trust falls. So what does OST actually mean in practice? Is it just a fancy way of saying ‘have a plan’?

Olivia: It’s a bit more disciplined than that. The Objective is the ‘what’—the single, clear goal. The Strategy is the ‘how’—the overarching approach to get there. And the Tactics are the specific actions you take day-to-day. Campbell’s big point is that most people and organizations are all tactics, no strategy. They’re busy, but they’re not moving towards a clear objective. Jackson: Okay, that I can see. We’ve all been in jobs where everyone is running around putting out fires, but no one can tell you what the five-year plan is. But does this simple framework really explain a creative genius? Olivia: Well, let’s look at one of his prime examples: Steve Jobs when he returned to Apple in 1997. It’s a story we think we know, but Campbell frames it through this OST lens. Jackson: Lay it on me. How does a three-letter acronym explain the guy who gave us the iPhone? Olivia: When Jobs came back, Apple was on the brink of collapse. It was chaos. They were making over forty different products. They had multiple versions of the Macintosh, printers, scanners, you name it. They were tactically busy, but strategically, they were lost. Jackson: A classic case of doing everything and accomplishing nothing. Olivia: Precisely. So Jobs’s objective was crystal clear: save Apple by making it profitable and innovative again. But his strategy was where the genius, and the boldness, came in. He gathered his top people in a room, drew a simple two-by-two grid on a whiteboard, and said, "This is our new product line." Jackson: A two-by-two grid? What was on it? Olivia: The columns were ‘Consumer’ and ‘Pro.’ The rows were ‘Desktop’ and ‘Portable.’ That’s it. Four products. He slashed everything else. He went from over forty products to just four. Imagine the internal battles, the engineers who had spent years on projects he just killed in an instant. Jackson: That’s brutal. So the strategy was radical simplification. Olivia: It was. And the tactics flowed from that. Every design choice, every marketing campaign, was in service of making those four products the absolute best in the world. He didn't just have a plan; he had a brutally simple, non-negotiable strategy. And it worked. Apple went from near-bankruptcy to one of the most valuable companies in history. Jackson: Okay, that’s a powerful story. But isn't that just common sense? 'Focus on what you're good at.' Is that really a secret to winning? Olivia: The idea is simple, but the execution is incredibly hard. It takes a leader with immense clarity and, frankly, the guts to tell most of their organization that the work they’ve been doing is now irrelevant. Most leaders want to please everyone; they hedge their bets. Winners, Campbell argues, don’t. They make the hard, clarifying choice. Jackson: That makes sense. It’s the difference between saying "we should focus more" and actually shutting down 90% of your projects. Olivia: Exactly. And the strategy doesn't always have to be about your own company. Sometimes it's about your opponent. Campbell tells the story of Pete Carroll, the coach of the Seattle Seahawks, heading into the 2014 Super Bowl against the Denver Broncos. Jackson: I remember that. The Broncos had Peyton Manning at quarterback; their offense was considered unstoppable. Olivia: Unstoppable. So Carroll’s objective wasn't to 'be the best offense.' His objective was to win the game. And his strategy was derived entirely from his opponent's strength. He knew Manning was a genius at reading defenses and making big plays. So Carroll’s strategy was to let him have the small wins. Jackson: Let him win? That sounds counterintuitive. Olivia: He let Manning complete short, easy passes all day long. The Seahawks’ defense didn't try to blitz him or force huge, risky plays. They just prevented the long ball, the game-changing touchdown. They frustrated him by taking away his biggest weapon. The final score was 43-8. A total demolition. The strategy was to make the opponent's strength irrelevant. Jackson: Wow. So it’s not just about having a strategy, but about having the right strategy for the specific situation. It’s about defining what ‘winning’ even means. For Crystal Palace, a struggling football team he mentions, winning wasn't lifting the trophy; it was just avoiding relegation. Olivia: Exactly. The objective dictates everything. And that’s Campbell’s core argument for the blueprint of success.

Jackson: Okay, I get the strategy part. The OST framework is a useful mental model. But Campbell says something even more provocative in the book, something that goes way beyond neat frameworks. He claims that many winners are "tortured souls." That feels like a huge leap from corporate strategy to messy psychology. Olivia: It is, and this is where the book gets really compelling and a bit dark. He argues that behind the strategy and the leadership, there's a certain type of mindset—an "extreme mind," as he calls it. It’s an obsession, a restlessness, a hatred of losing that is so profound it borders on unhealthy. Jackson: That sounds intense. Give me an example. Who embodies this? Olivia: His ultimate case study for this is Lance Armstrong. Campbell interviewed him before the doping scandal broke, and he was completely captivated. He saw Armstrong as the ultimate winner—a guy who beat cancer and then won the Tour de France seven times. Jackson: A story that was almost too good to be true. And it was. Olivia: It was. But Campbell looks back at his notes from that interview and sees the warning signs. He asked Armstrong about his motivation, and Armstrong said something chilling. He said, "When I was sick, I didn’t want to die. When I race, I don’t want to lose. Dying and losing – it’s the same thing." Jackson: Whoa. To equate losing a bike race with death… that’s not a normal competitive drive. That’s something else entirely. Olivia: It’s a total inability to conceive of defeat. And Campbell argues that this obsessive, win-at-all-costs mindset is what fueled both Armstrong's incredible success and his catastrophic downfall. The same engine that drove him up the mountains in France also drove him to lie, cheat, and bully anyone who got in his way. The obsession had no moral compass. Jackson: This is where some of the critics of the book have a really strong point, right? Campbell focuses on the winners, but it’s a classic case of survivorship bias. For every Lance Armstrong who uses that obsessive drive and gets caught, how many others have that same drive and either fail or succeed without cheating? He doesn't really analyze the losers. Olivia: That's a completely fair critique, and the book has been called out for it. Campbell isn't a scientist conducting a controlled study; he's a strategist analyzing the patterns he sees in the people who reach the absolute pinnacle. His argument isn't that this mindset guarantees success, but that you can't achieve that level of success without it. The question is how you channel it. Jackson: So, how do you channel it for good? Is there a "healthy" version of this extreme mind? Olivia: I think his counter-example would be someone like Michael Jordan. Jordan was famously driven by slights, real or imagined. In his Hall of Fame speech, he didn't thank his supporters; he thanked the guy who was picked for the high school team instead of him. He thanked the journalists who doubted him. He used every negative piece of feedback as fuel. Jackson: He turned every criticism into a competitive advantage. Olivia: Exactly. He had that same obsessive hatred of losing as Armstrong, but he channeled it into his work ethic, into out-practicing and out-competing everyone on the court. He pushed the boundaries of the rules, but he didn't fundamentally break the game itself. His obsession was directed at self-improvement, not just victory by any means necessary. Jackson: So the line is about integrity. The extreme mind is a powerful tool, but it can be used for good or for ill. It’s like having a race car engine. You can use it to win a Grand Prix, or you can crash it into a wall. Olivia: That’s a perfect analogy. And Campbell features so many people who walk this tightrope. He talks about the legendary Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson, who had to get rid of his star player, Roy Keane, because Keane’s obsessive, aggressive nature started to challenge the team's stability. Ferguson’s long-term strategy for the club had to trump the short-term value of one brilliant, but destructive, player. Jackson: It’s a constant balancing act. You need the fire, but you can't let it burn the whole house down. Olivia: And you need a team that can handle that fire. Campbell tells this incredible story about the NASA cleaner during the space race. A journalist is touring the facility and asks a janitor what he does there. And the cleaner replies, "Sir, I am here to help put a man on the moon." Jackson: Wow. That gives me chills. That’s real teamship. When everyone, from the astronaut to the janitor, understands the objective. Olivia: That's it. That’s when the strategy, the leadership, and the mindset all come together. It’s not just the leader who has the extreme mind; it’s the entire organization sharing an extreme commitment to the objective.

Jackson: So after all this, after looking at politicians, athletes, and CEOs, is winning a formula you can learn from a book, or is it something more innate and, frankly, a little dangerous? Olivia: I think Campbell’s answer is that it’s both. You need the ‘what’ and the ‘how’—the clear strategy, the OST framework. That’s the blueprint. It provides clarity and direction. Without it, you’re just running in circles, no matter how motivated you are. Jackson: The blueprint is the rational part. The part you can teach. Olivia: Exactly. But the engine that drives it is the ‘why’—that relentless, sometimes obsessive, mindset. It’s the hatred of losing, the constant striving, the resilience to get back up after being knocked down. The blueprint without the engine is a beautiful car that never leaves the garage. The engine without a blueprint is a rocket with no guidance system—it’s powerful, but it will almost certainly crash. Jackson: And the best winners, the truly great ones, manage to have both. They have the clarity of someone like Steve Jobs and the relentless drive of someone like Michael Jordan. Olivia: That’s the ultimate combination. And while most of us probably don't want the "tortured soul" part of the package, we can still learn from the principles. Maybe the takeaway for us isn't to become an obsessive, world-conquering winner. Jackson: That sounds exhausting, honestly. Olivia: It does! But maybe it's just to ask ourselves a simple question at the start of the week: What is my one, clear Objective? Not the 50 things on my to-do list, but the one big thing that really matters. And then, what is my Strategy to get there? Just bringing that little bit of clarity can make a huge difference. Jackson: I love that. It’s taking the grand theory and making it a practical, weekly habit. And I'm curious what our listeners think. Is that 'extreme mind' a feature or a bug for success? Is it something to aspire to or something to be wary of? Let us know your thoughts on our socials. Olivia: It’s a fantastic question to ponder. For now, that’s our deep dive into Alastair Campbell’s Winners. Jackson: A fascinating look into the minds of those who just can't stand to lose. Olivia: This is Aibrary, signing off.