Olivia: Alright Jackson, pop quiz. You see a book on the shelf called The Nine Types of Leader. What’s your first, most cynical thought? Jackson: Oh, easy. It's a corporate horoscope. 'You're a Capricorn, so you're a 'Strategic Visionary.' Your lucky number is your Q3 revenue target.' I can just see the PowerPoint slides now. Olivia: I had the exact same fear! The business section is littered with these kinds of personality quizzes masquerading as serious analysis. But this one, I promise, is different. Today we’re diving into The Nine Types of Leader by James Ashton. Jackson: Okay, so what makes this one escape the corporate horoscope trap? Olivia: The author, James Ashton. He isn't an academic in an ivory tower or a consultant selling a framework. He’s a veteran financial journalist who has spent over two decades interviewing hundreds of the world's most powerful CEOs for major newspapers. The book is built from the front lines of business, from real, high-stakes conversations. It's less theory and more of a field guide to the leadership species he's observed in the wild. Jackson: Huh. That’s actually a compelling angle. It’s not a model, it’s a collection of observations. Like a David Attenborough documentary, but for the boardroom. 'And here we see the rare CEO in its natural habitat...' Olivia: Exactly! And the book was even shortlisted for the Business Book Awards, so it's got some serious credibility. Ashton’s core idea is that leadership isn't a one-size-fits-all suit. It's a wardrobe of different archetypes, each with its own superpowers and, more importantly, its own fatal flaws. Jackson: A wardrobe of leadership styles. I like that. So where do we start? What’s the first outfit we’re trying on? Olivia: We start with the one we all think we know. The one that dominates our cultural imagination of what a leader is. We're starting with The Alpha.

Jackson: The Alpha. Okay, I’m picturing a pinstripe suit, a corner office the size of my apartment, and someone who doesn't ask, but tells. The classic top-down, 'I'm in charge here' kind of leader. Olivia: You've nailed the stereotype, and Ashton argues they are exactly that, but with more nuance. Alphas are the empire-builders. They are defined by their ambition to create something vast and lasting. They don't just want to run a company; they want to build a dynasty. And they exert power through a very clear, top-down chain of command. Jackson: It sounds a bit old-fashioned, almost monarchical. Does that style even work anymore in our collaborative, flat-hierarchy world? Olivia: That's the million-dollar question. To understand the Alpha, Ashton gives us the perfect case study: Peter Brabeck-Letmathe, the former chairman and CEO of Nestlé. Jackson: The chocolate and coffee giant. That's about as big an empire as you can get. Olivia: Precisely. Ashton tells this incredible story about attending the Salzburg Festival in Austria, a prestigious opera event that Nestlé has sponsored for decades. He describes Brabeck-Letmathe, a towering figure with piercing blue eyes, holding court. He wasn't just a CEO at a corporate event; he was the patriarch of a global dynasty, surrounded by his lieutenants, customers, and the media. The entire event was a display of power and influence, a symbol of the Nestlé empire. Jackson: So it’s not just about business decisions, it's about cultivating an image of immense power and permanence. It’s a performance. Olivia: It’s absolutely a performance. Alphas measure their success by the scale and longevity of their organization. Brabeck-Letmathe was famous for his long-term vision. He championed projects like Nespresso, which, believe it or not, took 25 years to properly develop. An ordinary CEO, worried about the next quarter's results, would have killed that project a dozen times over. But an Alpha, an empire-builder, has the patience and the power to see it through. Jackson: Twenty-five years. That's an entire career for some people. That requires an incredible amount of conviction, and frankly, an incredible amount of control. But that kind of power has a dark side, right? That level of dominance can't be all good. Olivia: It's a double-edged sword, and Ashton doesn't shy away from it. He brings up the massive controversy Nestlé faced for decades over its marketing of breast milk substitutes in developing countries. Critics accused the company of inhibiting the health of millions of babies. It was a huge ethical firestorm that scarred the company's reputation for years. Jackson: And how did the Alpha leader handle that? Olivia: He didn't back down. Brabeck-Letmathe was known for embracing controversy. He famously stirred debate by arguing that access to water wasn't a fundamental human right, a shocking statement from the head of a company that sells billions of bottles of water. He later clarified he meant water for filling swimming pools, not for basic survival, but the point is, he wasn't afraid of the fight. He defended his company and his vision, even when it was deeply unpopular. Jackson: That's the part that feels so alien today. The idea of a leader doubling down in the face of public outrage, instead of issuing a carefully worded apology crafted by a PR team. There's a certain... audacity to it. But is it effective, or just arrogant? Olivia: I think Ashton would say it's both. The Alpha's strength is their unwavering belief in their own vision, which allows them to build empires like Nestlé. But that same unwavering belief can become hubris. It can make them deaf to criticism and blind to their own ethical blind spots. Brabeck-Letmathe himself had a quote that perfectly sums up the Alpha mindset. He said, "I have always said a chief executive is successful when his successor is as successful as he was." Jackson: Wow. So even after they're gone, their legacy is the ultimate measure. The empire must endure. It's fascinating, but it also feels like a relic of a bygone era. In a world of constant disruption and crisis, can you really afford to have a leader who is so focused on building monuments? What happens when the monument starts to crumble? Olivia: That is the perfect question. Because when the monument is crumbling, you don't call an Alpha. You call in a completely different kind of leader. You call in The Fixer.

Jackson: The Fixer. I'm picturing Harvey Keitel's character, The Wolf, in Pulp Fiction. The person who shows up in a tuxedo when everything has gone horribly wrong and just calmly, efficiently, cleans up the mess. Olivia: That is a brilliant analogy. Ashton describes Fixers as leaders who are parachuted into failing organizations. They thrive on chaos. They're not there to build an empire; they're there to perform emergency surgery. And they are often willing to be deeply, deeply unpopular to get the job done. Jackson: They're the corporate world's first responders. That sounds incredibly stressful. Who would want that job? Olivia: The book gives us a fantastic example in Dame Moya Greene. In 2010, she was courted to become the CEO of Royal Mail, the British postal service. At the time, it was a sinking ship. It was losing money, bogged down by bureaucracy, and facing privatization, but no private investor would touch it. Jackson: A government-owned postal service in the age of email. That sounds like a nightmare. Olivia: A complete nightmare. But this is what defines a Fixer. Before she even accepted the job, Greene did her homework. She didn't just read reports; she spoke to regulators, to insiders, to understand the real problems. She framed the challenge. And she negotiated her terms, making sure the government was committed to the changes she knew were necessary. Jackson: So she's not just running into the burning building. She's checking the blueprints, securing the water supply, and making sure the fire department is actually on her side before she goes in. Olivia: Exactly. But then, right after she unofficially accepts the job, she gets a call. There's a massive, unexpected cash crunch. The company is about to run out of money. Her original, carefully laid plan is useless. This is where the Fixer's true nature comes out. Jackson: What did she do? Olivia: She didn't panic. She didn't form a committee. She acted. Immediately. She developed an emergency plan over a single weekend. She convened a conference for Royal Mail's top 100 suppliers and, in a masterclass of negotiation, convinced them to extend their payment terms. She essentially got them to help finance the company's survival. It was a bold, decisive move that stabilized the ship almost overnight. Jackson: That's incredible. She didn't just solve the problem; she made the stakeholders part of the solution. But that kind of work must come at a cost. I'm thinking of another Fixer Ashton mentions, Tim Parker, who was nicknamed the 'Prince of Darkness'. Olivia: Yes, Parker is the classic example of the Fixer who is willing to be the villain. He was famous for turning around struggling companies by making massive job cuts and restructuring debt. He was ruthless, and he made no apologies for it. He had a great quote: "I don’t love being unpopular, I love to get a job well done and I’m willing to be unpopular." Jackson: That's a powerful distinction. It’s not about enjoying the pain, it’s about seeing it as a necessary part of the cure. But how does a leader operate like that without becoming completely detached or, well, a monster? Olivia: Ashton suggests that the best Fixers simplify everything. They cut through the noise and bureaucracy and focus on the core operation. Sir Christopher Bland, who fixed the British telecom giant BT when it was drowning in debt, created a simple to-do list: demerge the mobile business, sell the Yellow Pages, raise money, find a new CEO. He broke an existential crisis down into four manageable tasks. Jackson: It's about creating clarity in the middle of chaos. The Alpha builds complexity, creating this vast, sprawling empire. The Fixer comes in and strips it all back to the studs, finding the essential structure underneath. Olivia: That's the perfect way to put it. And the Fixer's work is never really done. Dame Moya Greene, even after the successful turnaround of Royal Mail, warned that things could fall apart again quickly. The Fixer understands that stability is temporary and that continuous improvement is the only way to survive. They frame the challenge, follow the money, create a clear narrative, and then act with incredible speed. Jackson: It's a fascinating contrast. The Alpha is playing the long game, building for eternity. The Fixer is playing for the next 24 hours, just trying to keep the patient alive. It really drives home the point that there's no single 'best' way to lead.

Olivia: And that's the central wisdom of James Ashton's book. We're so often sold this idea of a singular, heroic leader. But the reality is that leadership is a tool, and you need the right tool for the right job. The leader you need to build an empire from scratch is fundamentally different from the one you need to save it from collapse. Jackson: The Alpha's strength—their unshakeable vision and long-term focus—would be a liability in a fast-moving crisis. They might be too slow, too attached to their own creation. And the Fixer's strength—their speed and willingness to make brutal cuts—would be destructive in a stable company that needs to nurture long-term growth. Olivia: Exactly. The Alpha builds the grand cathedral, and the Fixer is the one who knows how to reinforce the foundations when there's an earthquake. You need both, but you need them at different times. The book is filled with these archetypes—Sellers, Founders, Scions, Campaigners—each with their own context and their own cautionary tales. Jackson: It really makes you think. It moves the question from a generic 'Am I a good leader?' to something much more specific and useful. It makes you ask, 'What kind of leader am I?' And maybe more importantly, 'What kind of leader does my team, or my company, need me to be right now?' Olivia: That's the perfect question to end on. It’s not about finding your fixed "type" like a horoscope, but about understanding the different tools available in that leadership wardrobe and knowing when to use them. For our listeners, we'd love to hear your own experiences. Have you ever worked for a classic Alpha? Or seen a Fixer in action? What was it like? Jackson: Oh, the stories people must have. Share them with us on our social channels. I have a feeling the comment section is going to be a fascinating read. It’s a great way to see these archetypes come to life beyond the pages of the book. Olivia: I completely agree. It’s a reminder that these aren't just abstract concepts; they shape our daily working lives in profound ways. Jackson: A fantastic and clarifying read. Thanks, Olivia. Olivia: This is Aibrary, signing off.