Olivia: Alright Jackson, quick—what do you know about Dale Carnegie? Jackson: Uh, he wrote that book my grandpa has on his shelf about winning friends? I assume it involves a lot of firm handshakes and remembering birthdays. Olivia: Close! And you're not wrong about the birthdays. But today we're talking about his other masterpiece, a book on leadership. And it's less about handshakes and more about why a steel magnate giving away cigars was a genius move. Jackson: Giving away cigars? Okay, now I'm interested. That sounds like a terrible health and safety policy, but a great story. Olivia: It’s an amazing story, and it’s at the heart of the book we’re diving into today: The Leader in You by Dale Carnegie. And what's wild is that Carnegie, this pioneer of the whole self-improvement genre, was making these arguments almost a century ago, and they're more relevant now than ever. Jackson: A century ago? How can advice from the age of steam engines and telegrams possibly apply to today's world of remote work and AI? Olivia: Because he wasn't focused on the technology; he was focused on the people. In fact, the Carnegie Foundation did this incredible study back then. They wanted to figure out what actually leads to financial success. And they found that only about 15 percent of it comes from technical knowledge. Jackson: Wait, only fifteen percent? That seems incredibly low. What about surgeons, or coders, or architects? Their technical skill is everything. Olivia: You'd think so. But the study found the other 85 percent comes from what they called "skill in human engineering." Basically, your personality and your ability to lead people. Jackson: Eighty-five percent? That’s a staggering number. What on earth is 'human engineering'? It sounds a bit… clinical. Like you're building a person out of spare parts. Olivia: I know, the term is a little dated, but the idea is profound. It’s about understanding the underlying principles of human interaction and using them to build better relationships and inspire action. It’s the shift from being a boss who commands to a leader who influences. And Carnegie gives us the playbook.

Jackson: Okay, a leader who influences. I get the concept, but in the real world, don't you need authority? Don't you need to be able to say, "Do this, or you're fired"? That seems a lot more direct than 'influencing'. Olivia: It's more direct, but is it more effective? Carnegie would argue no. He tells this fantastic story about Charles Schwab, the steel magnate. Schwab was one of the first American businessmen to earn a million-dollar-a-year salary, which was astronomical at the time. And it wasn't just because he knew steel; it was because he knew people. Jackson: A million a year back then? He must have been the Jeff Bezos of his day. Olivia: Pretty much. So one afternoon, Schwab is walking through one of his steel mills and he sees a group of his employees smoking directly under a big "No Smoking" sign. Jackson: Oh, I know how this ends. He fires them on the spot to make an example, right? Classic power move. Olivia: That's what a manager would do. But Schwab was a leader. He walks over to the men, completely friendly, and starts a casual conversation. He doesn't mention the sign at all. After a few minutes of chatting, he pulls out some cigars from his pocket, hands one to each of the men, and says, "I'd appreciate it, boys, if you'd smoke these outside." Jackson: Hold on. He rewarded them for breaking the rules? My brain is short-circuiting right now. Olivia: It seems that way, but think about the psychology. The men knew they were caught. They knew that Schwab knew. By not scolding them, by treating them with respect and even generosity, he made them feel valued, not humiliated. They walked away from that interaction admiring him. They wanted to earn his respect back. Do you think they ever smoked under that sign again? Jackson: Probably not. They'd feel too guilty. Wow. That’s a level of psychological chess I was not expecting. He made compliance their idea. Olivia: Exactly. That's "human engineering." It’s understanding that true leadership isn't about wielding a hammer; it's about making people want to do the right thing. There's another great, more modern story about Fred Wilpon, who was the president of the New York Mets. He was giving a tour of Shea Stadium to a group of school children. Jackson: Okay, another big shot. Let's see his move. Olivia: He's leading the kids toward the bullpen, and a uniformed security guard, who has no idea who Wilpon is, steps in and stops them. He says, "Sorry, sir, this is a restricted area. No one is allowed in here." Jackson: Oh, this is the classic "Do you know who I am?" moment. I'm cringing already. Olivia: But it never came. Instead of pulling rank and embarrassing the guard who was just doing his job, Wilpon just smiled, said "No problem," and calmly led the students to another entrance. Later that day, he sent a handwritten note to the guard, thanking him for his diligence and concern for the team's security. Jackson: A thank-you note? For being stopped by his own employee? That's next level. The guard must have felt like a million bucks. Olivia: He probably did. And he probably became the most loyal employee in the stadium. In both stories, with Schwab and Wilpon, the leader had all the authority in the world. But they chose not to use it. They chose to preserve the other person's dignity. That builds a kind of loyalty and trust that you can't buy and you can't command. It creates a culture where people feel safe. Jackson: This all sounds great for creating a positive, respectful workplace. I'm on board with that. But what about getting big things done? Don't you need a tough, visionary leader who can push people beyond their limits, like a Steve Jobs? Is being respectful enough to build an empire? Olivia: That's the perfect question, because respect is the foundation, but it's not the whole house. Carnegie argues that the other, equally critical piece is having a compelling vision. And the story of Apple's beginning is a perfect example. You have two guys, Steven Jobs and Steven Wozniak, in a garage in 1976. They have no business training, just $1300 scraped together. Jackson: The classic garage startup story. We all know how it ends, but the beginning sounds impossible. Olivia: It was! They were up against giants. But they had a vision that was so clear and so powerful. They said, "Computers are going to be the bicycle of the mind. Low-cost computers are for everyone." It wasn't about circuits and processors; it was about empowering people. Jackson: 'The bicycle of the mind.' That's such a great line. It’s not technical, it's emotional. It’s a promise. Olivia: It's a promise. And they communicated that vision with incredible passion. They hired people who got it, who believed in it. Retailers, bankers, and manufacturers all told them no at first. But they persisted, driven by that vision. And six years later, they were selling 650,000 computers a year. Their vision, combined with their ability to inspire people to join them, is what made the impossible happen. So it’s not an either/or. You need both: the profound respect for people, and the powerful vision to lead them somewhere new.

Jackson: Okay, so you have the vision, and you've built a culture of respect. But how do you keep people motivated day in and day out? Most companies just throw money at the problem—bonuses, raises, stock options. Is that the answer? Olivia: It's an answer, but Carnegie would say it's a very limited one. He believed in a fundamental principle of human relations: "There is only one way under heaven to get anybody to do anything, and that is by making the other person want to do it." Jackson: Making them want to do it. That sounds a lot harder than just writing a check. Olivia: It is, but it's infinitely more powerful. And the secret isn't always money. It's often about recognition and purpose. There's a wonderful story from Andrew Carnegie's childhood—no relation to Dale, by the way, though Dale did change his name to sound like the famous industrialist. Jackson: A little branding move, I see. Smart. Olivia: Very. So, as a young boy in Scotland, Andrew Carnegie had a mother rabbit who had just given birth to a whole litter of bunnies. The problem was, he was poor and had absolutely nothing to feed them. Jackson: A classic resource problem. What did he do? Olivia: He came up with a brilliant plan. He went to the neighborhood kids and made them a proposition. He told them that if they would go out and collect enough dandelions and clover to feed the rabbits, he would name the bunnies in their honor. Jackson: You're kidding me. He offered them naming rights? For rabbits? Olivia: He did. And the effect was magical. The kids worked like crazy, bringing back armfuls of food. The rabbits were well-fed, and Carnegie learned a lesson that he said later made him millions. He understood that people will work harder for recognition and a sense of importance than they often will for just cash. Jackson: That is absolutely brilliant. He essentially gamified chores by appealing to their ego. The real currency wasn't the food; it was having 'Billy the Rabbit' or 'Johnny the Rabbit' named after you. Olivia: Precisely! And that principle scales all the way up to the corporate world. It's about making people feel important, about praising their contributions. Which brings us to one of the most famous examples of non-monetary motivation in business history: the Mary Kay pink Cadillac. Jackson: Ah, the legendary pink Cadillac! I've seen those on the highway. I always wondered what the story was. Olivia: Well, Mary Kay Ash, the founder of the company, was a master of motivation. She understood that her sales force, mostly women, wanted more than just a commission. They wanted recognition. They wanted to 'look good,' as one executive in the book puts it. So, she created this tiered system of rewards. When you reached a certain sales level, the company didn't just give you a bonus. They gave you the lease on a brand new, custom-painted, unmistakable pink Cadillac. Jackson: So it wasn't even a car they owned? It was a lease? Olivia: Often, yes. But that didn't matter. The car wasn't just transportation. It was a rolling trophy. It was a public declaration of success. When you drove that pink Cadillac through your town, everyone knew you had made it. Your neighbors, your friends, your family. It was a symbol of achievement that a check in the mail could never replicate. Jackson: That's fascinating. It's a physical manifestation of praise. You can't exactly frame a bonus check and hang it on your wall, but you can park a giant pink car in your driveway. Olivia: Exactly. And Carnegie's point is that leaders need to find the 'pink Cadillac' for their own teams. It might not be a car. It might be a simple, handwritten thank-you note. One executive in the book, John Robinson, talks about how he learned from a top salesman that the most powerful tool he had was writing personal notes. Not emails, not texts. Handwritten notes. Jackson: That feels so old-fashioned. Does that still work today? Olivia: Think about it. In a world of endless emails and Slack messages, how much more impactful is a physical note that someone took the time to write and send? It shows you care. It’s a small act of recognition that can have a huge impact. Another story highlights a company, Corning, that revamped its employee suggestion program. They used to have suggestion boxes and offered small cash prizes, but it was ineffective. Jackson: The classic suggestion box that's really just a paper shredder in disguise. Olivia: Right. So they got rid of it. Instead, they created a system where every single suggestion got a prompt response. And instead of money, they offered recognition. They'd name an "Employee of the Week" and publicly celebrate their idea. The result? The number of suggestions skyrocketed. People didn't just want the fifty bucks; they wanted the praise. They wanted to be seen as someone who was making a difference. Jackson: So the through-line from the rabbits to the Cadillacs to the suggestion box is that deep down, people have this fundamental craving to feel important and valued. Olivia: That's the core of it. And the best leaders understand that. They don't just manage tasks; they manage meaning. They praise the slightest improvement. They give credit publicly. They understand that while people work for money, as one person in the book says, they will go the extra mile for recognition and praise.

Jackson: It's incredible how these stories, some over a hundred years old, feel so modern. The shift from authority to influence, the focus on purpose over just paychecks—it sounds like the playbook for every successful 21st-century company. Olivia: It really is. Dale Carnegie was describing the future of work before it even existed. And when you put the two big ideas we've talked about together, you see a really powerful system for leadership. It’s not about being "soft" or "nice." It's a highly strategic approach. Jackson: How do you mean, strategic? Olivia: Well, first, you build the foundation. You treat people with dignity and respect, like Charles Schwab with the smokers. You don't use your authority as a weapon. That creates a culture of psychological safety where people trust you. Jackson: Okay, that's step one. The foundation of respect. Olivia: Then, once you have that trust, you can use these much more powerful, non-obvious motivators. You tap into that deep human need for recognition and importance. You find the 'pink Cadillac' for your team. You praise them publicly. You make them feel like their name is on the rabbit. That's what unlocks their creativity and their desire to go the extra mile. Jackson: And suddenly that 85 percent statistic makes perfect sense. Technical skill can build a product, but it takes this 'human engineering' to build a team that wants to build it better than anyone else. Olivia: Exactly. It's the difference between compliance and commitment. A paycheck buys you compliance. Respect and recognition earn you commitment. Jackson: It really makes you rethink every single interaction you have at work, or even at home. It's not just about being a decent person. It's about being an effective person. Olivia: That’s a perfect way to put it. So, if there's one concrete thing listeners could try this week, based on Carnegie's wisdom, it might be this: the next time you're about to point out a small mistake someone on your team has made, stop. Instead, find one thing they did right, no matter how small, and praise it. And if you can, do it publicly. Just see what happens. Jackson: I love that. It's a small change that could have a huge ripple effect. And it leaves me with one final question for everyone listening: What's the 'pink Cadillac' in your own life or on your team? What's that non-monetary symbol of recognition that people would truly go the extra mile for? Olivia: A powerful question to reflect on. Jackson: It is. This has been fascinating, Olivia. Olivia: This is Aibrary, signing off.