Michelle: Mark, when do you think most people say is the happiest time of their life? College? First job? Having kids? Mark: Yeah, probably their 20s or 30s. Peak everything, right? You’re young, you’re healthy, the world is your oyster. Michelle: According to research in the book we're discussing today, you're off by about 50 years. The most common answer is eighty-two. Mark: Eighty-two?! No way. How is that even possible? That’s when everything is supposed to be falling apart. Michelle: Exactly. And that surprising, counter-intuitive finding is at the heart of Successful Aging: A Neuroscientist Explores the Power and Potential of Our Lives by Daniel J. Levitin. Mark: Okay, I’m intrigued. An author who says 82 is the peak of happiness must have a pretty unique take on things. Michelle: He really does. And what's fascinating is that Levitin isn't just a distinguished neuroscientist; he's also a professional musician and a record producer who's worked with artists like Sting and Stevie Wonder. Mark: A rock-and-roll neuroscientist. That explains the unconventional take. He’s not just looking at brain scans; he’s looking at life, creativity, and what makes it all worth living. Michelle: Precisely. He argues that this potential for late-life happiness isn't just luck. It hinges on a few key factors, and maybe the most important one is something we often dismiss as a vague platitude: having a sense of purpose.

Michelle: Levitin opens with this incredibly powerful story about his own grandfather to show just how physically devastating the loss of purpose can be. His grandfather was a pioneering radiologist who founded the radiology department at his hospital. This was his life's work. Mark: A real trailblazer. You can imagine the pride he took in that. Michelle: Absolutely. But in the mid-20th century, the hospital had a mandatory retirement age. So at 65, despite being at the peak of his skills—radiology is all about pattern recognition, which improves with experience—he was pushed out. Forced to retire from the very department he created. Mark: Oh, that’s just brutal. To have your identity and contribution just erased by a number on a calendar. Michelle: It crushed him. Levitin shares a letter his grandfather wrote to the family, expressing this profound sadness and the loss of respect he felt. He felt marginalized, useless. And the story takes a dark turn. Shortly after, he went in for a routine surgery, had a minor complication, and died. He was only 67. Mark: Wow. That's heartbreaking. But can we really say the forced retirement is what led to his death? It sounds a bit dramatic. Michelle: Levitin, as a neuroscientist, argues that it's not dramatic at all. He explains that intense social stressors, like feeling devalued and isolated, trigger a physiological stress response. It floods your body with hormones like cortisol, which, over time, compromises your immune system. It makes you more vulnerable to complications, to illness, to everything. The loss of purpose wasn't just an emotional blow; it was a physical one. Mark: That makes a terrifying amount of sense. So if losing purpose can literally harm you, can finding it… heal you? Can it do the opposite? Michelle: That is the perfect question, because Levitin gives us the perfect counter-story: his own father. His dad was a successful businessman who, in his early 60s, was also "encouraged" to retire. And the same pattern started. His social world shrank, he started having physical ailments, he became depressed. It looked like he was heading down the same path as his own father. Mark: Oh man, I’m nervous about where this is going. Michelle: But this story has a different ending. Instead of accepting it, his father started putting out feelers for something new. He ended up getting an offer to teach a single business course at the USC Marshall School of Business. He was terrified, but he did it. And he was a natural. The students loved his real-world experience. Mark: So he found a new purpose. Michelle: A completely new one. Soon, he was teaching a full load of four courses a semester. And Levitin says the change was dramatic. The depression lifted. The physical ailments vanished. He was engaged, connected, and valued. He didn't just get a job; he got his life back. And he continued teaching at USC until he was eighty-nine. Mark: Eighty-nine! That’s incredible. From the brink of decline to a whole second career that lasted almost thirty years. Michelle: It’s the perfect illustration of the book's central idea. Our life trajectory isn't fixed. Personality isn't set in stone. Levitin cites research showing you can become more conscientious or agreeable at any age. We have this incredible capacity for neuroplasticity—for our brains to rewire themselves based on our choices and our environment. The grandfather was in an environment that told him he was useless, and his health collapsed. The father created an environment that told him he was valuable, and he thrived. Mark: So it’s not about the genes you inherit, but the purpose you build. That’s a much more hopeful way of looking at aging. It puts the power back in our hands.

Mark: Okay, so purpose is key. I’m sold. But "find your purpose" can feel like this huge, abstract mountain to climb. Does Levitin give us a more practical roadmap? A user's manual for this? Michelle: He does, and it’s beautifully simple. He boils down the science of successful aging into a five-part acronym: COACH. It stands for Curiosity, Openness, Associations, Conscientiousness, and Healthy practices. Mark: COACH. I like that. It’s like a personal trainer for your brain's later years. What do those mean in practice? Michelle: Curiosity is the drive to learn new things. Openness is the willingness to have new experiences, to step outside your comfort zone. Associations means nurturing your social connections—friends, family, community. Conscientiousness is about being reliable, disciplined, and seeing things through. And Healthy practices are the obvious but crucial things: diet, exercise, and sleep. Mark: The "Openness" and "Conscientiousness" parts are really interesting. They seem like personality traits, not just actions. How do you just decide to be more open? Michelle: That’s where the stories get really fun. To illustrate late-life Openness and Conscientiousness, Levitin uses one of the most unexpected examples you can imagine: Colonel Sanders. Mark: Colonel Sanders? The Kentucky Fried Chicken guy? I thought he was just a friendly logo on a bucket of chicken. Michelle: The man behind the logo had a life of almost constant failure. He was fired from dozens of jobs—farmhand, streetcar conductor, lawyer—you name it. By age sixty-two, his little roadside eatery had failed, a new highway had bypassed it, and he was broke, living out of his car on his first Social Security check. Mark: Sixty-two and broke. That’s the definition of a dead end. Most people would just give up. Michelle: But he didn't. He had this old family recipe for fried chicken. And at an age when most people were winding down, he demonstrated radical Openness. He decided to try a completely new, untested idea: franchising his recipe. He drove across the country, sleeping in his car, trying to convince restaurant owners to pay him a nickel for every piece of chicken they sold. Mark: That takes an insane amount of grit. That’s the Conscientiousness part, right? The follow-through. Michelle: Exactly. It’s one thing to have a crazy idea. It’s another to have the discipline and persistence to execute it, especially after a lifetime of setbacks. He was a perfect storm of late-life Openness to a new venture and the Conscientiousness to make it happen. He eventually sold the company at age 74 for what would be millions today and worked as the brand ambassador into his nineties. Mark: That story completely reframes what's possible. It’s not about being born with the "right" personality. It's about choosing to act in a certain way, even when it's late in the game. Michelle: And that’s the essence of the COACH principle. For "Associations," think back to Levitin's father connecting with his students. For "Healthy Practices," the book details how crucial things like sleep are for clearing out the brain's metabolic waste, which is linked to Alzheimer's. Each letter of COACH represents a choice. Mark: It’s a powerful framework. But I have to ask, this all sounds great for people with resources. Levitin's father was a professor, Colonel Sanders had a unique recipe. What about regular folks who don't have those opportunities? Does this advice risk sounding a bit privileged? Michelle: That's a fair critique, and it's something that comes up in discussions around the book. Levitin’s response would likely be that these principles are scalable. "Openness" doesn't have to mean starting a global franchise. It can mean trying a new recipe, taking a different route on your walk, or listening to a new type of music. "Associations" can be joining a book club or volunteering for an hour a week. The point isn't the scale of the action, but the consistency of the choice to remain engaged with the world instead of withdrawing from it.

Mark: So when you put it all together, what’s the one big idea we should walk away with from Successful Aging? Michelle: I think it’s that we need to fundamentally reframe our understanding of aging. It’s not a passive process of decay that happens to us. It's an active, developmental stage of life that we can, and should, help shape. The book is a powerful argument for taking agency over our later years. Mark: Right. It’s not about trying to stay 30 forever. It's about making your 70s, 80s, and 90s as rich and meaningful as possible. Michelle: Exactly. And that brings us back to the beginning. That finding that the happiest age is eighty-two. It’s not a guarantee, of course. But it represents the potential outcome for a life lived with curiosity, connection, and purpose. It’s the light on the horizon that Levitin is pointing us toward. Mark: It’s a profoundly optimistic message, but it’s grounded in real science and actionable advice. It makes the future feel less like something to fear and more like something to build. Michelle: I think Levitin would love that phrasing. The book ultimately transforms aging from a problem to be solved into a life to be lived. And that leads to a great reflective question for everyone listening. Mark: I’m ready. Michelle: What's one small thing you could do this week to be more 'Open' or 'Curious'? It doesn't have to be monumental. Just one small choice. Mark: That’s a great question. And we'd genuinely love to hear your thoughts. Find us on our social channels and share what you came up with. Let's build a community around these ideas and see what we can all learn from each other. Michelle: This is Aibrary, signing off.