Olivia: Most leadership books tell you to start with a grand, inspiring vision. What if the most effective leaders do the exact opposite? They start by admitting, 'Here's how we're failing,' and their most powerful tool isn't a mission statement—it's a checklist. Jackson: A checklist? That sounds… incredibly un-sexy for a leader. That’s like saying the secret to being a rockstar is tuning your guitar. Where is this coming from? Olivia: It comes from Chris Hirst's award-winning book, No Bullsht Leadership*. And it makes perfect sense when you learn Hirst isn't your typical leadership guru. He's a former global CEO of major advertising agencies like Havas, but his degree is in Engineering from Oxford. He thinks in systems and results, not just inspirational fluff. Jackson: Ah, an engineer. Okay, now the checklist thing is starting to make a little more sense. He’s not trying to write poetry; he’s trying to build a bridge that doesn’t collapse. Olivia: Exactly. And the bridge he’s building is from where a team is to where it needs to be. He argues that the whole leadership industry has overcomplicated this to the point of absurdity, and his book is an attempt to strip it all back to the essentials. Jackson: I’m in. The world has enough corporate haikus. Let's get to the nuts and bolts.

Olivia: So, let's start with his core definition. Hirst says leadership is simply the process of getting a group of people from one place to another. From Point A to Point B. That’s it. Jackson: That feels almost too simple. I mean, isn't there more to it? What about inspiring people, the grand vision, the 'why'? Olivia: He argues the 'why' is important, but leaders get lost in it. They spend months crafting the perfect, poetic mission statement while the company is on fire. Hirst’s first step is brutally practical: define Point A. Be painfully honest about where you are right now. Jackson: So, not "We're poised for synergistic growth," but more like, "Our sales are down 20%, and our team morale is in the toilet." Olivia: Precisely. And you don't figure that out in a boardroom. He tells a great little story about his time working with BBC Radio 1. To understand their Point A, they didn't hire consultants; they just started holding what they called 'pizza meetings.' Jackson: I like the sound of that. Olivia: They’d get a cross-section of people from all levels of the organization in a room, give them free pizza, and just ask them: "What's really going on here?" The people on the ground always know the truth. That's how you define Point A. Jackson: Okay, that I get. You get an honest diagnosis before you start prescribing medicine. So once you have that brutally honest Point A, what about Point B? Is that the grand vision? Olivia: It's a destination, but it has to be simple. He uses a fantastic example from the world of sports. In 2015, the England Rugby team hosted the World Cup and got knocked out in the first round. It was a national humiliation. Jackson: Oh, I remember that. It was painful to watch. Olivia: The team was broken. So they brought in a new coach, an Australian named Eddie Jones. At his first press conference, everyone expected a big speech about changing the culture and a new philosophy. Instead, he was asked what his plan was. He basically said, "Point A is we're humiliated and broken. Point B is we're going to win the next World Cup in 2019." Jackson: That's it? Just 'win'? Isn't that what every team wants? Where's the 'how'? Olivia: That’s the whole point! The 'how' comes later. The leader's first job is to set a destination so clear that everyone can repeat it, from the star player to the person washing the jerseys. It wasn't a 50-page slide deck. It was a single, measurable, ambitious goal. The complexity comes later, in the execution. And under his leadership, they made it to the final of the 2019 World Cup. Jackson: It’s like a mountain climber. The goal isn't some abstract concept of 'conquering nature.' It's 'get to the summit.' Simple. Clear. You know when you've done it. Olivia: Exactly. You define the destination, then you start figuring out the path. And that journey from A to B is where most leaders fail, which brings us to the next big idea.

Jackson: Right, because the journey between Point A and Point B is where all the 'bullsh*t' Hirst talks about lives. It's the endless meetings, the overthinking, the analysis paralysis... Olivia: It’s the land of inaction. Hirst argues that the most important part of leadership is execution—just getting stuff done. He tells a funny story about an interview with a headhunter who asked him his greatest strength. He just said, "Getting stuff done." The headhunter was completely unimpressed and never called him back. Jackson: Wow. Because it doesn't sound as good as "strategic visionary" or "transformational change agent." Olivia: But it's what actually matters. And to get stuff done, you have to be decisive. Hirst says the most common reason for failure is not a lack of good ideas, but a failure to make decisions. He quotes former US Secretary of State Colin Powell, who had a fascinating rule for this. Jackson: Okay, I need a rule I can actually use. Olivia: It's the 40/70 rule. Powell said you should make a decision when you have between 40% and 70% of the information you need. Jackson: Hold on. Less than 40%, you're just guessing. But more than 70%... you've waited too long? That feels counterintuitive. Don't you want to be as certain as possible? Olivia: By the time you have 100% certainty, the opportunity has passed. The competition has already acted. The market has shifted. Waiting for perfection is a form of inaction. That 40-to-70-percent window is the sweet spot for informed intuition. You know enough to make a call, but you haven't wasted precious time chasing certainty that doesn't exist. Jackson: I've seen projects get completely paralyzed because no one wants to be the one to make a call and be wrong. The fear of blame is huge. Olivia: And Hirst says a leader has to create a culture where being wrong is okay. He tells this incredible story about a US Navy aircraft carrier. It's one of the most dangerous workplaces on earth, and everything runs on checklists and procedures. An engineer was doing a routine repair and misplaced a small tool. Jackson: Oh, that's bad. On an aircraft carrier, a loose tool in a jet engine could be catastrophic. Olivia: Exactly. So the entire flight deck, with billions of dollars of equipment and thousands of lives at stake, was shut down for 24 hours while they searched for it. The engineer had to report his mistake to his superior, who reported it to his superior, all the way up to the captain of the ship. Jackson: That engineer must have thought his career was over. I'd be terrified. Olivia: Everyone thought he was going to be publicly destroyed. The next day, the captain gets on the ship-wide intercom. He doesn't yell. He doesn't blame. He praises the engineer by name. He says, "This man's honesty has made our ship safer. He did the right thing." Jackson: Wow. Olivia: Because the captain understood a profound truth. The mistake wasn't the problem; mistakes are inevitable. The real danger is creating a culture of fear where people hide their mistakes. He knew that how he responded to this one error would determine whether the next person would speak up. Hirst's takeaway is powerful: the most wrong you can be as a leader is to not take enough decisions, or to create a culture where people are too scared to. Jackson: That's a huge mental shift. It reframes failure as a data point, not a catastrophe. But I have to ask, some critics of the book say it can feel a bit like a 'pep-talk' at times. Are these rules really practical for the average person, or do they just sound good? Olivia: I think that's a fair question. But Hirst’s track record suggests it's more than a pep-talk. He took over a struggling ad agency, Grey London, and turned it into the UK's most awarded agency. He did it by implementing these exact principles: clear goals, decisive action, and building a culture of trust. His ideas are battle-tested in the real world, not just a classroom.

Jackson: And that culture of decisiveness you mentioned, that feels like the final piece of the puzzle. It's one thing for a leader to be decisive, but how do you get a whole team to operate that way? Olivia: You've hit on Hirst's ultimate point. He says your strategy is useless if your culture is broken. He quotes the famous line, "Culture eats strategy for breakfast." But he argues most companies get culture completely wrong. Jackson: What do you mean? The posters on the wall with words like "Integrity," "Innovation," "Synergy"? Olivia: Exactly that. He calls it "corporate bullshit." He points to a study that found the most common corporate values are things like integrity, respect, and innovation. They're so generic they're meaningless. The real culture isn't what's on the poster; it's the environment the leader creates through their own behavior. Jackson: So, if the boss sends emails at 11 PM, the culture is "you should always be working," no matter what the poster says. Olivia: Precisely. Hirst says most companies operate on a "parent-child" model. The leaders are the parents who hold all the information and make all the decisions, and the employees are the children who have to ask for permission. This creates a dependent, slow, and disempowered culture. The goal is to create an "adult-to-adult" culture. Jackson: Okay, what does that actually look like? Olivia: He gives the brilliant example of Nordstrom, the US retailer famous for customer service. Their employee rule book is legendary. It’s a single card that says: "Rule #1: Use your best judgment in all situations. There will be no additional rules." Jackson: That's it? That's the whole rule book? Olivia: That's the whole rule book. It's a culture book, not a rule book. It says, "We hired you because you're a smart adult. We trust you to make good decisions. You are empowered." That's an adult-to-adult culture. It's about trusting your people. Jackson: That requires a massive amount of trust from the top. And it's a huge shift from the top-down, command-and-control style that's still so common. How do you even begin to change a culture that's stuck in that old way? Olivia: Hirst has a very vivid metaphor for this. He says, "To change a culture, you must smash the concrete." Jackson: Smash the concrete? That sounds dramatic. Olivia: It is! Culture isn't a soft, fuzzy thing. It's hard, set, and resistant to change, like concrete. You can't gently persuade it to be different. You need to take a sledgehammer to it. When he took over a failing agency, one of his first acts was to physically tear down all the private offices. He got rid of department boundaries and had everyone sit in client-focused teams. Jackson: So it was a physical, visible, undeniable signal that the old way of working in silos was over. Olivia: Exactly. The Monday morning after the walls came down felt completely different from the Friday before. It cracked the foundation of the old culture and made space for a new one to grow. Jackson: Smashing concrete is great if you're the CEO with a budget for demolition. What about an 'everyday leader' managing a small team? What's their version of that? Olivia: That's the key question. The principle isn't about literal demolition. It's about making a bold, visible, symbolic change that signals a new way of working. For a team manager, smashing the concrete could be killing a useless weekly report that everyone hates. It could be cancelling a recurring meeting that's a waste of time and giving that hour back to everyone. It's any decisive action that shows you're serious about removing the 'bullsh*t' and focusing on what matters.

Jackson: So, when you put it all together, the 'No Bullsht' approach seems to be about three things. First, radical simplicity in your goal—know your A and B. Second, a bias for imperfect action—make the call. And third, realizing that you, as the leader, are the culture through your daily behaviors, not your speeches. Olivia: Exactly. It’s about trading the illusion of control that comes from complex plans for the real momentum that comes from simple, decisive action. Hirst's core message is that leadership isn't a title you're given or a personality you're born with. It's a choice you make every day. It's a craft you practice. Jackson: I like that. It feels much more accessible. It’s not for some special breed of person; it’s for anyone willing to take responsibility. Olivia: And maybe the one thing to take away from all this is a simple, practical tool Hirst offers. It's a question. The next time a team member comes to you with a problem, instead of solving it for them, which creates that parent-child dynamic, just look at them and ask: "What do you recommend?" Jackson: Ah, that's good. It's a simple phrase, but it completely flips the dynamic. It forces them to think like a leader, to own the solution. It says, "I trust you to think this through." Olivia: It's the essence of an adult-to-adult culture in a single question. It’s a small action that can start to smash the concrete of a dependent culture. Jackson: I'm going to try that. I'm genuinely curious to see what happens. Olivia: We'd love to hear how that goes. For anyone listening, try it this week. The next time someone brings you a problem, ask them what they recommend. Find us on our socials and share your story. We want to know what 'No Bullsht Leadership' looks like in your world. Jackson: This is Aibrary, signing off.