Olivia: A massive study analyzed over twelve thousand instances of feedback. The goal was to see how much it improved performance. The result? In a shocking 38 percent of cases, people’s performance actually got worse. Jackson: Hold on. Worse? Not just ‘no change,’ but actively worse? That’s terrifying. That means in more than a third of these supposedly helpful conversations, managers are literally doing more harm than good. Olivia: It’s a minefield. And it’s precisely the minefield we're navigating today. Our guide is the book Let's Talk: How to Give Feedback That Leads to Real Change by Therese Huston. Jackson: And Huston is the perfect person for this, right? She's not just a management guru; she has a PhD in cognitive psychology from Carnegie Mellon University. She's looking at this from a brain-science perspective. Olivia: Exactly. She’s spent her career translating that science for major organizations like Microsoft and Amazon. And this book, which is highly rated by readers, is her attempt to give us a practical, science-backed toolkit to stop making things worse and start making them better. Jackson: I think we need it. So where do we even start? Why is something that seems so basic—just telling someone how they're doing—so incredibly hard to get right?

Olivia: Well, Huston argues the problem starts before we even open our mouths. We think "feedback" is one thing, but it's not. It's actually three completely different conversations, and we cause chaos because we constantly mix them up. Jackson: Three conversations? What are they? Olivia: The first is Appreciation. This is about recognition, motivation, and making someone feel seen. It’s saying, "Thank you. Your hard work matters, and here's why." It connects us as humans. Jackson: Okay, that one feels good. The easy one. Olivia: You'd think so, but a surprising number of managers admit they just don't do it. The second is Coaching. This is about helping someone improve, grow, and learn a new skill. It's not about judgment; it's about improvement. Jackson: So that's the "how-to" conversation. "Here's how you can get better at X." Olivia: Precisely. And the third, the one that causes the most anxiety, is Evaluation. This is where you stand. It's a rating, a ranking, a comparison against expectations. It tells you if you're on track for a promotion or, in some cases, on your way out. Jackson: And we just lump all three of these into the word "feedback." I can already see the problem. If I'm asking for coaching on a project, and my boss gives me an evaluation of my overall performance, that’s going to feel like a total ambush. Olivia: It’s a complete mismatch of needs and expectations. Huston tells this story about a guy named Wayne, a former professional football player who transitioned to a consulting firm. He was new to the business world and knew he wasn't bringing in enough clients. He felt insecure. Jackson: I can imagine. That's a huge career shift. Olivia: He knew he needed help. He needed coaching on how to sell, how to build confidence in this new arena. But when his supervisor sat him down, the supervisor just gave him an evaluation. He said, "Wayne, you're not showing enough initiative. You're not bringing in enough business compared to your peers." Jackson: Oh, that’s brutal. He was basically asking for a map, and his boss just told him he was lost. Olivia: Exactly. And Wayne felt he couldn't ask for coaching after that, because asking for help would just be more proof that he wasn't showing initiative. He felt completely unsupported and discouraged. He left the firm within six months. Jackson: That's heartbreaking. And it was a totally preventable failure. The manager probably thought he was being direct and helpful, but he was having the wrong conversation. Olivia: He was. Wayne needed a coach, and he got a judge. The whole situation could have been different if the manager had just clarified what Wayne needed in that moment. Jackson: But how do you know which one someone wants? It feels awkward to just ask, "Hey, want some appreciation or some harsh evaluation today?" Olivia: Huston offers a really simple script for this. You can just say, "I can offer a few different kinds of feedback. Are you looking to (A) discuss what I appreciate most about your work, (B) get some coaching on something, or (C) find out where you stand? All three are important, but which one would help you the most right now?" Jackson: Huh. That’s surprisingly direct, but it’s also really respectful. It gives the power to the other person. It’s like you’re presenting a menu instead of force-feeding them a meal they didn't order. Olivia: It changes the entire dynamic. It ensures you're both on the same page, having the same conversation. And knowing which conversation to have is the first critical step. The next, and maybe the hardest, is adopting the right mindset during that conversation.

Jackson: Right, because even if you're in a "coaching" conversation, it can still feel like an attack if it's delivered poorly. Olivia: Absolutely. Huston's second big idea is a mindset shift: Side with the person, not the problem. Our natural tendency, especially when something has gone wrong, is to align ourselves with the problem. We see the missed deadline, the flawed report, the unhappy client, and we team up with that problem to confront the employee. Jackson: Which immediately makes the employee feel like it's you and the problem versus them. They're alone and on the defensive. Olivia: And their brain goes into lockdown. Huston draws on research about the brain's threat response. Neuroscientist David Rock developed a model called SCARF—Status, Certainty, Autonomy, Relatedness, and Fairness. When we feel any of these are threatened, our brain floods with cortisol. We can't think clearly, we can't recall information well, and we definitely can't learn. Jackson: It’s the "shoot the messenger" effect. The book mentions research on this, right? People literally dislike the person who delivers bad news, even if that person has zero control over it. Olivia: Exactly. So if you, as the manager, are the source of that threat, the person you're talking to is biologically incapable of hearing your "helpful coaching." The most effective way to counteract this is to make it clear you are on their team. You and them, together, are going to look at this problem. Jackson: That’s a huge reframe. It's not "You messed up." It's "Let's figure out what happened here, together." Olivia: The book has this fantastic story that illustrates this perfectly. A manager named Maura ran a high-end fitness club in Los Angeles, catering to executives and bankers. She had a yoga instructor named Samantha who was teaching a "goddess-movement" yoga class. Jackson: Goddess-movement yoga for bankers. I can see a potential mismatch here. Olivia: A big one. Attendance was consistently terrible. Maura took the class and realized it was a beautiful, spiritual class, but it was completely wrong for her clientele who wanted high-intensity, calorie-torching workouts. She knew she had to let Samantha go. Jackson: That is one of the hardest conversations a manager can have. How do you even start that? Olivia: Well, a typical manager might say, "Samantha, your class isn't working. The numbers are low. We have to end it." That's siding with the problem—the low attendance. But Maura did something different. She sat down with Samantha and said something like, "You know, Samantha, it’s very clear that all of the gifts that you have are falling on deaf ears here. Your people—and you have people—they’re not here. They’re not at this club. What do you think?" Jackson: Wow. That's a masterclass. She didn't say 'your yoga is weird and doesn't fit.' She said 'your gift is amazing, but this is the wrong audience.' It completely reframes it from a failure into a mismatch of talent and venue. Olivia: It was transformative. A year later, Samantha called Maura. She said, "If we hadn't had that conversation, I never would have had the motivation or the confidence to create my own style and brand. I built a whole business around it. I just want to thank you for helping me realize my potential." Jackson: That gives me chills. That one conversation, framed with that mindset, literally changed the course of her career for the better. It’s so different from the story of Cassidy's Performance Review, where his manager just sat there silently while he got ambushed by a higher-up. That manager sided with the problem, and it destroyed the trust. Olivia: It's the difference between a conversation that builds someone up, even while delivering hard news, and one that tears them down. It all comes down to whether they feel you are for them or against them. Jackson: Okay, so we have the right conversation type and the right mindset. That feels like it should be enough. But the book argues there's still this invisible force field messing everything up: bias.

Olivia: That's right. Even with the best intentions in the world, our feedback can be warped by our unconscious biases. Huston spends a lot of time on this, particularly around gender and race, because the data is so clear and so concerning. Jackson: What does the data show? Olivia: It shows that men and women often get fundamentally different kinds of feedback for the same performance. Men are more likely to get specific, actionable coaching tied to business outcomes. Women, on the other hand, often get vague feedback that focuses on their personality or communication style. Jackson: The classic "you're a bit abrasive" or "you need to smile more." Olivia: Exactly. And the word "aggressive" is a perfect example. Research on performance reviews found that when the word "aggressive" appeared, 76 percent of the time it was in a woman's file. And for men, it was often framed as a good thing, as in "you need to be more aggressive." For women, it was almost always a criticism. Jackson: That's a clear double standard. It's not an objective evaluation of behavior; it's a judgment based on gendered expectations. Olivia: To me, the most powerful illustration of this in the book is the story of the writer Catherine Nichols. She had written a novel and was sending it out to literary agents, but she kept getting rejections with very little useful feedback. Jackson: A common story for aspiring authors, unfortunately. Olivia: But she had a suspicion. So she ran an experiment. She created a male pseudonym, George Leyer, and sent out the exact same query letter and manuscript pages to another set of agents. Jackson: I have a bad feeling about where this is going. Olivia: The results were staggering. As Catherine, she got responses from 2 out of 50 agents. As George, she got responses from 17 out of 50. That's a huge difference. But the quality of the feedback was even more shocking. The responses to Catherine were brief and dismissive. The responses to George were full of detailed, constructive coaching. Agents were offering line edits, suggesting different narrative approaches, and asking to see the full manuscript. Jackson: So for the same work, the woman was dismissed, and the man was coached. He got a roadmap to success, and she got a closed door. That's not just about hurt feelings; that's about career life-and-death. If men are getting the detailed coaching on how to improve and women are getting vague personality feedback, that's a huge systemic disadvantage. Olivia: It's a massive feedback gap. And Huston argues that we can't just tell ourselves to "not be biased." Our brains don't work that way. We have to be vigilant. We have to build systems to check ourselves. For example, before you tell a woman she's "too aggressive," ask yourself: "What is the specific behavior? And would I have the same reaction if a man did it?" Jackson: This is where some critics might jump in, though. The book offers checklists of gendered words to watch for, but can you really 'checklist' your way out of deep-seated bias? Does it risk making managers even more robotic and scared to say anything at all? Olivia: That's a fair point, and it's a real tension. Huston calls it "protective hesitation"—managers, often male managers, become so afraid of saying the wrong thing to a female employee that they say nothing at all, which is even worse. Her argument isn't that a checklist solves everything, but that it's a tool for awareness. It forces you to pause and question your initial, automatic reaction. It's about moving from an unconscious judgment to a conscious, more objective observation. Jackson: So it’s less about a script and more about a speed bump. A forced moment of reflection before you speak. Olivia: A perfect way to put it. It’s about interrupting the automatic pattern. Because without that interruption, we just keep reinforcing the same biases that hold talented people back.

Olivia: When you pull it all together, it all comes back to intention and awareness. First, being aware of what conversation you're actually having—is it appreciation, coaching, or evaluation? Getting that right prevents so much confusion. Jackson: Then there's the mindset. Being intentional about siding with the person, not the problem. Remembering that your job is to be an ally in their growth, not an adversary. Olivia: And finally, being vigilant. Actively looking for the hidden biases in your own thinking that can undermine even your best intentions. It's about realizing that fairness isn't our default setting; it's something we have to actively work toward. Jackson: So the one thing a listener could do tomorrow is, before giving any feedback, just ask themselves those two questions: "What kind of conversation is this?" and "Am I on their side?" Just starting there seems like it would prevent that 38% of feedback that makes things worse. Olivia: It would. And maybe add one more question, which Huston comes back to again and again: "What's the story I'm telling myself about this person, and could there be another one?" That simple reframe, from being convinced to being curious, could change everything. Jackson: Be curious, not convinced. I like that. It feels like the foundation for everything else we've talked about. Olivia: It really is. It's the key to unlocking feedback as a superpower, not a weapon. Jackson: This is Aibrary, signing off.