Jackson: ‘The customer is always right.’ We’ve all heard it. It’s practically the first commandment of business. But what if the most successful, resilient, and innovative organizations on the planet operate on the exact opposite principle? What if the secret is that your employees always come first, even before the customer? Olivia: That is the provocative, and frankly, revolutionary idea at the heart of Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek. It’s a book that fundamentally challenges how we think about the structure of a successful organization. Jackson: And Sinek is the perfect person to make this argument. He’s not a typical business guru; his background is in cultural anthropology. He literally studied how human tribes work. The book's title, Leaders Eat Last, actually comes from a practice he observed in the U.S. Marine Corps, where the most senior officers are, by tradition, the last to get their food. Olivia: Exactly. And what he argues is that this isn't just a nice gesture or a quaint tradition. It’s a biological imperative. It’s the secret to unlocking a level of trust and cooperation that most companies can only dream of. This simple act is a symbol for a much deeper concept he calls the ‘Circle of Safety.’ Jackson: Okay, ‘Circle of Safety.’ That sounds nice, but a little... soft for the cutthroat corporate world. What does it actually look like when the stakes are real? Olivia: That is the perfect question. And the most powerful example Sinek gives isn't from a boardroom, it's from 15,000 feet above a battlefield in Afghanistan.

Olivia: The story is about an A-10 Warthog pilot, a flying tank basically, whose call sign was Johnny Bravo. His real name is Captain Mike Drowley. On this particular day, he gets a call. A team of 22 Special Forces soldiers is pinned down, completely surrounded by the enemy, and taking heavy fire. They are in a desperate situation. Jackson: Oh man, I can just feel the tension. Twenty-two guys against who knows how many. Olivia: Exactly. And the weather is awful. The clouds are so low that no pilot can see the ground. The rules of engagement are clear: you cannot fire unless you have positive identification of the target. Dropping a bomb blind would be a court-martial offense, not to mention it could kill the very men you're trying to save. Jackson: So he's flying blind. His hands are tied by the rules, and men are dying on the ground. What can he even do? Olivia: The ground commander is getting frantic. He’s screaming over the radio for air support, but every pilot who tries has to turn back because of the cloud cover. They can't see a thing. Finally, Johnny Bravo makes a decision. He tells the commander on the ground, "Just tell me where you are. I'm going to fly my jet through the clouds and draw the enemy's fire." Jackson: Wait, what? He’s going to use his own multi-million dollar jet as bait? He’s essentially painting a giant target on himself. Olivia: A giant, blind target. He has no idea what’s on the other side of those clouds. He just knows his guys are down there. So he dives. He punches through the cloud cover, and for a terrifying few seconds, he’s flying so low and so fast, right in the middle of the firefight, that he can literally see the faces of the enemy fighters as they turn their guns from the soldiers on the ground... to him. Jackson: Wow. That is an insane level of courage. What happened? Olivia: In that split second, he sees them. He pulls up, loops around, and comes back to unleash the full force of his A-10. He does this again and again, flying through that storm of bullets, until the threat is neutralized. He saved all 22 men. When he was asked later why he would risk everything against all regulations, his answer was simple: "Because they would have done it for me." Jackson: That gives me chills. "Because they would have done it for me." That's the Circle of Safety, isn't it? It's not a policy. It's a feeling. A deep, instinctual trust. Olivia: That is exactly it. It's a space where people feel so protected by their leaders and each other that they are willing to sacrifice for the good of the group. And Sinek’s big idea is that this feeling isn't just psychological; it's chemical. It’s hardwired into our biology. Jackson: Okay, so you’re saying there’s actual science behind this? What makes someone like Johnny Bravo do that? Is it just training, or something deeper? Olivia: It’s much deeper. Sinek breaks it down into four primary chemicals that our bodies produce, which he groups into two pairs. He calls them E.D.S.O. The first pair, E and D, are Endorphins and Dopamine. Jackson: Endorphins and Dopamine. I've heard of those. Runner's high and... pleasure? Olivia: Pretty much. Think of these as the "selfish chemicals." Endorphins are there to mask physical pain. That runner's high is your body helping you push through discomfort. Dopamine is the reward chemical. It’s released when we accomplish a goal, check something off our to-do list, or find something we were looking for. It feels good, it's highly addictive, and it's all about individual achievement. Jackson: Right, that's the feeling of hitting a sales target or finally finishing a big project. The 'me' chemicals. Olivia: Precisely. They are essential for survival and progress. But they work alone. The other pair of chemicals, S and O, are Serotonin and Oxytocin. These are the "selfless chemicals." They are the social glue. Jackson: Okay, so how do those work? Olivia: Serotonin is the leadership chemical. It’s the feeling of pride and status we get when we perceive that others like or respect us. It reinforces the bond between a leader and a follower, a parent and a child. When you get a diploma in front of your proud parents, that warmth you feel? That's serotonin. It makes you feel your value within the tribe. Jackson: And Oxytocin? Olivia: Oxytocin is the chemical of love, trust, and deep friendship. It’s released through physical touch, like a hug, or through acts of human generosity and sacrifice. It’s the feeling that someone has your back. It’s the chemical that makes Johnny Bravo risk his life, because it creates a bond that is stronger than fear. It takes time and consistency to build, but it's the magic ingredient in the Circle of Safety. Jackson: So, let me see if I've got this right. The modern workplace is obsessed with Dopamine—individual targets, bonuses, performance reviews. It’s all about hitting those goals. But a truly great organization, a real tribe, also fosters Serotonin and Oxytocin. It creates an environment that triggers the 'we' chemicals, not just the 'me' chemicals. That's the whole game. Olivia: You've nailed it. When the Circle of Safety is strong, the team is flooded with serotonin and oxytocin. They trust each other. They cooperate. They innovate. Because they aren't wasting energy protecting themselves from each other. They're directing all that energy to face the dangers outside the circle.

Jackson: Okay, that makes perfect sense. If we are biologically wired for this, if it creates these incredible outcomes like the Johnny Bravo story, why are so many workplaces just… miserable? Why is this Circle of Safety so incredibly rare? It feels like we're fighting against our own nature. Olivia: We are. And Sinek identifies a very specific villain responsible for this, a force that has become dominant in the modern world: Abstraction. Jackson: Abstraction. What does that mean in this context? Like, thinking too much? Olivia: It means the loss of connection to the real, human consequences of our decisions. It’s when we lead by looking at spreadsheets, data points, and profit-and-loss statements instead of looking into the eyes of our people. The numbers on the page become more real than the human beings they represent. Jackson: Hold on, isn't that just modern business? We have to be data-driven. We have to manage by the numbers to be efficient. Are you saying spreadsheets are evil? Olivia: Not in themselves, but they can be a tool for creating dangerous distance. Sinek uses a brilliant metaphor: trying to sell a snowmobile in the desert. It’s a perfectly good product, a great machine. But the strategy is completely disconnected from the reality of the environment. That’s what happens when leaders are too far removed from their people and their customers. They create strategies in a boardroom that are the equivalent of a snowmobile in the desert. Jackson: I can see that. A plan that looks perfect on paper but is a total disaster in the real world because the leaders never actually talked to the people on the ground. Olivia: Exactly. And this abstraction doesn't just lead to bad strategy; it leads to unethical behavior. It allows good people to do terrible things. Sinek points to the famous Milgram experiment from the 1960s to prove it. Jackson: Oh, the shock experiment. I’ve heard of this. It’s pretty dark. Olivia: It's terrifyingly relevant. In the experiment, a volunteer, the 'teacher,' was told to ask questions to a 'learner' in another room. Every time the learner got one wrong, the teacher had to administer an electric shock, with the voltage increasing each time. The learner, who was an actor, would scream in pain, complain of a heart condition, and eventually fall silent. Jackson: And the volunteers... they just kept going? Olivia: A shocking number of them did, all the way to the maximum, potentially lethal voltage. But here’s the crucial part Sinek highlights. Milgram ran variations of the experiment. When the teacher was in the same room as the learner, able to see and hear their pain directly, obedience dropped dramatically. When they had to physically press the learner's hand onto the shock plate, it dropped even further. Jackson: Whoa. So the distance, the abstraction, made it easier to inflict pain. Olivia: It made it almost effortless. And Sinek’s chilling point is this: what is the difference between a person in a lab coat telling you to flip a switch that harms someone you can't see, and a CEO in a corner office looking at a spreadsheet and telling their managers to lay off 10,000 people via email? Jackson: Oh, I see. It's the same principle. The distance makes it painless for the decision-maker, but absolutely devastating for everyone else. The abstraction of it all—they're just numbers on a page, not families, not people. It completely shatters the Circle of Safety from the top down. Olivia: It’s the modern disease of leadership. We've created systems that allow us to lead without empathy, because we've abstracted the humanity out of the equation. We manage the numbers, not the people. And the result is fear, cynicism, and disengagement.

Jackson: That is a powerful and frankly, pretty bleak diagnosis of the modern workplace. So what's the fix? If abstraction is the enemy, how do we fight it? How do we start building that Circle of Safety when everything is pushing us toward distance and data? Olivia: The solution is, in a way, beautifully simple. It's about closing the distance. Sinek lays out several leadership lessons, but they all boil down to one thing: lead the people, not the numbers. He tells the story of Bob Chapman, the CEO of a manufacturing company called Barry-Wehmiller. During the 2008 financial crisis, they were hit hard. The board told him he had to do layoffs. Jackson: The standard corporate playbook. Cut costs, protect the bottom line. Olivia: But Chapman refused. He said, "It's better that we should all suffer a little than any of us should have to suffer a lot." So instead of layoffs, he implemented a furlough program where every single employee, from the CEO to the factory worker, had to take four weeks of unpaid vacation. Jackson: Wow. How did people react to that? Olivia: The effect was astonishing. Morale shot through the roof. Employees started trading furlough weeks. People who could afford it took five or six weeks so that colleagues with bigger families could take only three. They came out of the recession stronger than ever, with a level of loyalty you just can't buy. Chapman chose to protect his people, and in return, his people protected the company. He closed the distance. Jackson: So leadership isn't a rank you achieve or a title you're given. It's a choice you make every single day to put the person next to you first. It's almost like a biological responsibility. Olivia: That's the perfect way to put it. It's a responsibility to manage the Circle of Safety. And Sinek would argue that while this sounds big, the first step is incredibly small. The next time you have a choice, let someone else go first. Let them speak first in a meeting. Give them the credit for a good idea. Answer their email before you answer one from your boss. That's how you start building the circle. Jackson: A powerful, simple start. It reframes leadership from being about being in charge to being about taking care of those in your charge. We'd love to hear from our listeners on this. What’s one small way you’ve seen a leader—or even a colleague—build a 'Circle of Safety' at your workplace? Let us know. It’s a conversation worth having. Olivia: This is Aibrary, signing off.