Jackson: Here’s a wild statistic. A recent poll found that 65% of working Americans would rather get a new boss than a pay raise. Olivia: Wow. That’s not just a complaint about a tough quarter or a boring project. That’s a fundamental cry for help about the human experience at work. Jackson: Exactly. It’s not about the money. It’s about the person in charge. And today’s book argues the solution isn’t a better strategy or a new software. It’s something much simpler, and much harder: better people. Olivia: That cry for help is exactly what Anthony Tjan, a long-time venture capitalist and entrepreneur, tackles in his book, Good People: The Only Leadership Decision That Really Matters. What's fascinating is that Tjan comes from the hard-nosed world of venture capital, where you'd think it's all about numbers and growth. Jackson: Right, the world of "move fast and break things." Olivia: Precisely. Yet he spent years interviewing nearly 100 leaders, from Supreme Court Justices to Hollywood managers, to make the case that these so-called 'soft' values are the ultimate competitive advantage. And he kicks it off with a story about a product that is probably in every single one of our garages right now.

Olivia: Jackson, if I ask you why WD-40 is so successful, what’s your first guess? Jackson: The formula, obviously. It’s magic. It fixes squeaky doors, loosens rusty bolts, gets crayon off the wall... I think it might even be able to do my taxes. It’s a legendary product. Olivia: That’s what everyone thinks. The product is iconic. But Tjan argues the real 'secret sauce' isn't the chemical compound. It's the company's culture. The story starts in 1953, with a tiny team at the Rocket Chemical Company trying to create a water displacement formula. It took them 40 tries. Hence, Water Displacement-40. Jackson: Forty tries! That’s some serious persistence. Olivia: It is. But the real story is what happened decades later under its CEO, Garry Ridge. He built a culture around a single, powerful idea, a philosophy he got from the leadership guru Ken Blanchard: "Don’t mark my paper, help me get an A." Jackson: Hold on. "Don't mark my paper, help me get an A." What does that even mean in a corporate setting? Olivia: It means a manager's number one job isn't to evaluate you; it's to help you succeed. It’s a shift from being a judge to being a coach. And the results are staggering. At the time of the book's writing, 97% of employees at WD-40 reported that they "love working there." Their employee retention rate was three times the national average. Jackson: Three times? That's insane. So the secret to keeping people isn't just high salaries or fancy perks. It's a culture where people feel supported. But this gets to the heart of the problem with the word 'good,' doesn't it? When a boss says, "Oh, Jackson is a good employee," they usually just mean I hit my targets and don't cause trouble. They mean I'm competent. Olivia: Exactly. And that is the central myth Tjan wants to bust. We've conflated 'good' with 'good at the job.' Tjan argues that true goodness is about character, values, and humanity. It’s about who you are, not just what you do. He brings up the legendary basketball coach John Wooden, who obsessed over the definition of success. Jackson: The guy who won ten NCAA championships with UCLA. I'd say he knew a thing or two about success. Olivia: You'd think his definition would be about winning, but it wasn't. For Wooden, success was, and I quote, "the peace of mind and self-satisfaction of knowing that you made the effort to do the best of what you are capable." It was about the internal measure of character and effort, not the external scoreboard. Jackson: Okay, I can see how that applies to sports. But in business, there is a scoreboard. It’s called profit and loss. Isn't this 'goodness' stuff a bit... fluffy for the boardroom? Olivia: That's the conventional wisdom Tjan is fighting. He argues that in today's world, where information is free and competition is global, the only sustainable advantage you have is your people and your values. A people-first culture like WD-40's isn't just a 'nice-to-have.' It's a powerful economic engine. It creates loyalty, innovation, and resilience that you just can't buy.

Jackson: Okay, I'm sold on the 'why.' A culture of goodness creates a competitive advantage. But how do you build it? 'Be a good person' is the vaguest advice ever. It feels so fuzzy. Olivia: I agree, and Tjan does too. He says the problem is that we lack a common language for goodness. He makes this brilliant analogy to the world of wine. For centuries, wine was just... wine. Red or white. But then, in the 20th century, a specific vocabulary emerged—words like terroir, tannins, body, notes of blackberry. Jackson: And suddenly, you could analyze it, teach it, and appreciate it on a whole new level. It went from a drink to an art form. Olivia: Exactly! Tjan says we need to do the same for character. We need to move from the vague notion of 'goodness' to a practical, shared framework. And that's why he created what he calls the Goodness Pyramid. Jackson: A pyramid? Okay, now that sounds a little... self-helpy. I’m picturing a poster with an eagle soaring over a sunset. Olivia: (Laughs) I get the skepticism, but it's actually a really robust and practical model. Think of it as a user manual for character. It has three foundational cornerstones that work together, like notes in a musical chord. The three cornerstones are Truth, Compassion, and Wholeness. Jackson: Okay, break those down for me. What does 'Truth' mean here? It's not just 'don't lie,' I assume. Olivia: It's much deeper. For Tjan, Truth is built on humility and self-awareness. Humility is knowing your own limitations. He tells the story of Frank Blake, who was being interviewed for the CEO job at Home Depot. He had almost no retail experience, which was a huge red flag. Jackson: That sounds like a deal-breaker. What did he do, try to fake it? Olivia: He did the opposite. He walked into the boardroom and said, "Let me tell you why I might not be the right person for this job," and he openly acknowledged his weakness. The board was so impressed by his humility and self-awareness that they gave him the job. He led the company successfully for eight years. That's Truth in action. It's the intellectual honesty to see yourself clearly. Jackson: Wow. That takes guts. Okay, so Truth is about humility. What about the second cornerstone, Compassion? Olivia: Compassion is the human factor. It’s composed of openness, empathy, and generosity. Tjan shares a deeply personal story about his brother, who was diagnosed with a rare, aggressive cancer at 22. They met with world-class oncologists who were technically brilliant but cold and dismissive. Jackson: Oh, that's the worst. When you're just a case file, not a person. Olivia: Exactly. Then they found Dr. Jack Erban. He was just as brilliant, but he was also incredibly compassionate. He took the time to listen, to understand their fears, to treat them like human beings. Tjan is convinced that Dr. Erban's compassion was as critical to his brother's survival as the chemotherapy. It’s about genuinely asking "How are you?" and meaning it. Jackson: That makes so much sense. It’s the difference between treating a disease and treating a person. Okay, so we have Truth and Compassion. What’s the third cornerstone, Wholeness? That one sounds the most abstract. Olivia: It is, but it's the ultimate goal. Wholeness is about integrating your values into a cohesive whole. It’s about purpose, love, and respect. It's that feeling of self-congruence, where your actions, words, and values are all in alignment. It’s not about work-life balance, which suggests two separate things to be balanced. It’s about work-life integration. Jackson: So it’s not about leaving your 'work self' at the office. It's about being the same authentic person everywhere. Olivia: Precisely. It’s about being purpose-driven. Tjan quotes the founder of Whole Foods, John Mackey, who said the purpose of business is to improve our lives and create value for stakeholders, not just maximize profit. That’s the quest for Wholeness. It’s the peak of the pyramid, where you’re not just doing good things, you are a good person, integrated and at peace with your purpose.

Jackson: This all sounds great in a book. The pyramid is a neat model. But in the real world, idealism gets crushed by pragmatism. How do you choose between being 'good' and, you know, not going bankrupt? Olivia: You’ve hit on the most critical part of the book. Tjan acknowledges that practicing goodness isn't a smooth path. It's a constant battle between competing values. He calls these the five tensions, and he frames them as the 'final boss levels' of leadership. Jackson: I like that. So it's not about being perfect, it's about navigating the challenges. Give me an example. Olivia: Let's start with the one you just mentioned: Pragmatism versus Idealism. Tjan uses the incredible story of Lee Kuan Yew, the founder of modern Singapore. Here was a man with a grand, idealistic vision: to turn a tiny, resource-poor island into a thriving, first-world nation. Jackson: An incredibly idealistic goal. Olivia: But his methods were brutally pragmatic. He implemented strict laws, controlled the press, and made tough, sometimes authoritarian, decisions to ensure stability and economic growth. Many in the West criticized his methods, but you can't argue with the results. Singapore became a global powerhouse. Tjan's point is that the tension isn't between good and evil. It’s between two necessary forces. You need the idealistic vision to know where you're going, and the pragmatic execution to actually get there. Jackson: That's a fantastic example. It’s not a simple choice. It’s a balancing act. What's another one of these tensions? Olivia: Perhaps the most powerful one is Grit versus Acceptance. Grit is that perseverance, the refusal to give up. Acceptance is the wisdom to know when to let go. And the story he uses to illustrate this is absolutely harrowing. It's about the Worcester Cold Storage fire in 1999. Jackson: I think I remember hearing about this. It was a tragedy. Olivia: A horrific one. An abandoned six-story warehouse, a maze of windowless rooms, caught fire. Firefighters went in, believing two homeless people might be trapped inside. But the building was a death trap. The fire exploded, and six firefighters got lost inside. The incident commander, Mike McNamee, faced an impossible choice. His grit, his every instinct as a firefighter, screamed at him to send more men in to save his own. Jackson: Of course. You don't leave your people behind. Olivia: But he listened to the reports. The heat was too intense, the structure was collapsing. He realized that sending more men in would just mean more deaths. So, he had to make the most courageous decision of his life. He had to choose acceptance. He called off the search and rescue. He later said, "We failed that night... The building kicked our butts big-time. The building won." Jackson: Wow. That gives me chills. That’s... an impossible choice. So, in that moment, the 'good' leadership decision wasn't to show more grit. It was to accept the horrific reality to prevent further loss. Olivia: Exactly. Goodness isn't always about pushing harder. Sometimes, the greatest act of goodness is knowing when to surrender to a reality you cannot change. It’s the wisdom to know the difference, just like in the Serenity Prayer. Jackson: And that applies to everything in life, doesn't it? Knowing when to keep fighting for a startup, a relationship, or a project, versus having the wisdom to accept that it's over and move on. That’s a struggle everyone faces.

Olivia: It really is. And I think that's the ultimate power of Tjan's book. We started this conversation by redefining 'good' from a simple resume skill to a core human value. The pyramid gave us a map for how to build that character within ourselves—through Truth, Compassion, and Wholeness. Jackson: And the tensions showed us that practicing goodness isn't about being a saint. It's about being a wise navigator. It's about wrestling with these difficult, real-world choices, like pragmatism versus idealism, or that heart-wrenching choice between grit and acceptance. Olivia: It completely reframes the goal. The point isn't to be a 'good person' as some kind of static label you achieve. The point is the continuous, conscious act of trying to be better, of making choices that align with your values, even when it's incredibly hard. Jackson: It’s a practice, not a destination. And it makes me think about that statistic we started with—the 65% of people who'd rather have a new boss than a raise. They aren't asking for a perfect boss. They're asking for a human one. Someone who is trying to practice this stuff. Olivia: That’s it exactly. So maybe the question for all of us listening is, what's one small, 'good' decision we can make today? Not for a promotion, not for a reward, but just for the sake of putting a little more goodness into the world. Jackson: I love that. And we'd love to hear your thoughts on this. What does being a 'good person' at work really mean to you? Is it even possible in your industry? Find us on our socials and join the conversation. Olivia: This is Aibrary, signing off.