Jackson: You know that classic advice, "Find a job you love, and you'll never work a day in your life"? Olivia: Oh, I know it well. It's on every graduation card and motivational poster. Jackson: It's terrible advice. For most people, it's completely impossible. The reality is, a job is a job. It can be boring, repetitive, and sometimes, downright soul-crushing. Olivia: Exactly. And that’s why I’m so excited about what we're discussing today. It’s a philosophy that flips that idea on its head. It suggests you don't have to find a job you love; you can choose to love the one you have. We're diving into FISH! A Remarkable Way to Boost Morale and Improve Results by Stephen C. Lundin, Harry Paul, and John Christensen. Jackson: FISH! Okay, the title alone has me intrigued. Is this about the fishing industry? Olivia: In a way, yes, but not how you think. What's fascinating is that this book didn't start as a book at all. It was born from a wildly popular corporate training video made by one of the authors, John Christensen. He filmed the real-life Pike Place Fish Market in Seattle—a place that is famously, almost absurdly, full of life and energy. The book is a parable that tries to bottle that lightning. Jackson: A parable based on a real place. I like that. So it’s not just some made-up story. Olivia: The story is fictional, but the inspiration is 100% real. And the story starts in a place that I think many of us will recognize. It’s a place the book calls a "toxic energy dump." Jackson: A toxic energy dump. Wow, that’s a term that needs no explanation. I think I’ve worked in a few of those.

Olivia: I think we all have. The book introduces us to our hero, Mary Jane Ramirez. She's a competent, successful supervisor at a company called FirstGuarantee Financial. But she’s just been "promoted" to manage the operations department on the third floor. Jackson: And let me guess, the third floor is the toxic energy dump. Olivia: You guessed it. It's a department so notorious for its negativity and unresponsiveness that other employees have nicknamed it "the wasteland." People describe the staff as "zombies." They're slow, they're disengaged, and they suck the life out of everyone they interact with. One manager even jokes, "I think I may have discovered life on the third floor," as if it were a barren planet. Jackson: That is painfully relatable. The place where good ideas and positive attitudes go to die. So why on earth would Mary Jane take this job? Olivia: Well, that’s where the story gets its heart. Mary Jane is in a tough spot personally. Her husband died suddenly two years prior, leaving her a single mother with a mountain of unexpected medical bills. She's still grieving, she's overwhelmed, and she needs the pay raise that comes with this promotion. She takes the job out of necessity, not desire. Jackson: Okay, so she’s trapped. She’s walking into a professional nightmare because of personal hardship. That adds a lot of weight to it. Olivia: It really does. And for the first five weeks, it's exactly as bad as she feared. She sees employees deliberately ignoring ringing phones, hiding files to avoid work, even napping in the breakroom. The culture is so powerfully depressing that even new, enthusiastic hires lose their spark within weeks. Jackson: It’s a vortex of apathy. So what happens? How does she even begin to tackle something like that? Olivia: She almost doesn't. She’s at her breaking point. Her boss, Bill, calls her and tells her that upper management has officially labeled her department a "toxic energy dump" and demands she fix it, fast. He’s completely unsympathetic, even saying, "Personally, I've never expected a lot from a bunch of clerks." Jackson: Wow. So she has no support from above and a team of zombies below. She's completely alone. Olivia: Completely. And in a moment of desperation, feeling crushed after that phone call, she abandons her usual lunch routine. Instead of walking to the waterfront, she impulsively turns down a different street and is drawn by a sound she hasn't heard in a long time at work: laughter. Jackson: Laughter? Olivia: Loud, genuine, raucous laughter. It leads her to the world-famous Pike Place Fish Market. And what she sees there completely shatters her reality of what work can be. It's chaotic, it's loud, it's smelly... but it's electric. Fish are flying through the air, the fishmongers are shouting jokes, they're teasing customers, they're engaging everyone. They are working incredibly hard, but they're also having an immense amount of fun. Jackson: And this is a real place in Seattle, right? I’ve seen videos of this. They really do throw the fish. Olivia: They really do. And for Mary Jane, coming from the dead silence of the third floor, it's like stepping into another dimension. She's just standing there, mesmerized, when one of the fishmongers, a guy named Lonnie, notices her. He sees how serious she looks and just comes over and starts talking to her. He listens to her story about the toxic energy dump, and then he says something that changes everything. Jackson: What does he say? Olivia: He tells her that the fish market used to be a "crappy" place to work too. It was cold, wet, smelly, and exhausting. But then, they made a choice. They decided they wanted to become "world famous." Not for selling the most fish, but for creating an experience. And he offers to teach her the secrets they learned. Jackson: So the energy wasn't an accident. It was a deliberate choice. That’s the key, isn't it? Olivia: That is the absolute core of the entire philosophy. It’s not about the work you do; it’s about the way you choose to do it. And that realization gives Mary Jane the first glimmer of hope she's had in months.

Jackson: Okay, so that’s a fantastic story. But let's get practical. Mary Jane can't go back to her office and start throwing computer monitors. How does she translate the energy of a fish market to a corporate "wasteland"? Olivia: That’s the exact question she asks Lonnie. And he breaks it down for her into four simple, but profound, ingredients. This is the FISH! Philosophy. The first, and most important, is Choose Your Attitude. Jackson: Alright, I have to push back on this one immediately. This sounds a lot like the "just be happy" or "good vibes only" stuff that can feel really dismissive. Isn't this just a form of toxic positivity, where you're blaming the employee for being unhappy in a genuinely bad environment? Olivia: That is the number one criticism of the book, and it's a valid concern. But the book addresses this in a surprisingly nuanced way. It's not about pretending problems don't exist. It’s about recognizing you have control over your response to those problems. Lonnie shares a story about his grandmother. He says she didn't necessarily love washing dishes, but she chose to bring love to the act of washing dishes. She made it a time for connection and joy. Jackson: Okay, bringing love to the task, not just loving the task. That's a subtle but important distinction. Olivia: It's everything. The book gives another powerful example through a character named Wolf, a former race car driver who had a career-ending accident. He lost everything. And he says he realized he had a choice every single day: to wallow in what he'd lost, or to choose to live the life he had left to the fullest. Choosing your attitude isn't about ignoring pain; it's about not letting the pain have the final say. Jackson: That lands differently. It's about agency, not just emotion. So what's the second ingredient? Olivia: The second ingredient is Play. Jackson: See, this is another one that sounds great in a fish market but dangerous in an accounting firm. Where is the line between 'play' and 'getting fired for not taking your job seriously'? Olivia: Lonnie's definition of play is key here. He says, "We can be serious about our business without being serious about ourselves." It's not about neglecting your work; it's about finding lighthearted and creative ways to do it. For Mary Jane's team, this didn't mean throwing things. It meant things like creating a fun game to present a dry report, or coming up with creative ways to solve problems instead of just complaining about them. It’s about injecting a spirit of curiosity and fun into the process. Jackson: So it’s about the how, not the what. Finding ways to make the process more engaging. I can see that. What's number three? Olivia: Number three is Make Their Day. This is about turning your focus outward. The fishmongers are constantly looking for ways to create a memorable, positive interaction for every single customer. It could be a joke, getting them to catch a fish, or just giving them your full, undivided attention. Jackson: And I assume "their" doesn't just mean external customers. Olivia: Exactly. Mary Jane's team realizes their "customers" are the other departments they work with. The ones who dread interacting with them. So they start brainstorming: how can we make the day of the people in the sales department? How can we make our interactions with them not just tolerable, but positive? Mary Jane even does this with her own boss, Bill. She gives him a "smiling sushi"—a fish head—as a playful gift. It's weird, it's unexpected, and it completely changes their dynamic. It makes his day. Jackson: A fish head. That takes guts. I love it. Okay, what's the final ingredient? Olivia: The final ingredient is Be Present. Lonnie tells a story about being at a grocery store where the employees were having a great time with each other, laughing and joking. They were "playing," but they were completely ignoring him, the customer. He felt invisible. Jackson: Oh, I know that feeling. You're standing there, and you feel like you're interrupting their private party. Olivia: Precisely. So "Be Present" is about giving people your full attention when you are with them. It means when you're talking to a colleague, you're not also checking your email. When a customer is in front of you, you're not thinking about your to-do list. You are fully there with them. For Mary Jane's team, this was revolutionary. They had been so disengaged, they were never truly present for anyone. Jackson: Choose Your Attitude, Play, Make Their Day, and Be Present. It's interesting how they all build on each other. You can't really play or make someone's day if you haven't first chosen a positive attitude and decided to be present. Olivia: That's the synthesis. They aren't four separate rules. They are four facets of a single, integrated mindset.

Jackson: You know, for a book that seems so simple on the surface, there's a lot of depth here. It's sold over 6 million copies, so it clearly resonates, but it also gets criticized for being simplistic. Hearing it broken down like this, it feels less about a cheesy formula and more about personal responsibility. Olivia: I think that's the core insight. The book argues that a "toxic energy dump" isn't a physical place. It's a collective choice. It's a culture created by a series of individual decisions to be disengaged, to be negative, to be absent. And if it's a choice, it can be un-chosen. Jackson: So the power isn't in some grand, top-down corporate initiative. It's in the daily, micro-choices of every single person on the team. Olivia: Exactly. The transformation on Mary Jane's third floor doesn't happen because of a memo from the CEO. It happens because Stephanie, a shy employee, gets inspired and speaks up. It happens because Randy, a guy struggling at home, decides to stop taking his frustrations out on his colleagues. It happens because they visit the fish market and see a living, breathing example of a different way to be. Jackson: It's about creating energy, not just managing it. The fish market doesn't have a budget for "fun." The energy is a byproduct of their attitude and their actions. Olivia: That's the perfect way to put it. Energy and joy at work aren't resources you find or are given. They are outcomes you create. The book's ultimate message is that you don't have to wait for the perfect job or the perfect boss to have a fulfilling work life. The power to transform your experience is available to you right now, in this moment. Jackson: It’s empowering, but also a little daunting. It puts the responsibility squarely on your own shoulders. Olivia: It does. And the book acknowledges that. It says we must be compassionate with each other on this journey. But it insists that the journey is possible. So, maybe a good place for our listeners to start is with a simple question. Jackson: I'm ready. Olivia: What's one small, simple thing you could do at work tomorrow to "Make Someone's Day"? Not as a task, not for credit, but just as an experiment in creating a little positive energy. Jackson: I like that. A small experiment. It could be as simple as a genuine compliment or offering to help with a small task. It feels doable. Olivia: And that's the whole point. It starts small. It starts with a choice. Jackson: This is Aibrary, signing off.