Olivia: Most people think changing the world requires power, money, or a famous last name. What if the most potent weapon for change is actually a well-told story from a 15-year-old who's just discovered a weird ingredient in her Gatorade? Jackson: That sounds like the plot of a quirky indie movie. But you're telling me that's the actual game we’re exploring today? A teenager versus a global beverage giant? Olivia: That’s the game. It’s the core idea in Jennifer Dulski's book, Purposeful: Are You a Manager or a Movement Starter? It argues that real change doesn't come from the top down; it sparks from the most unexpected places. Jackson: And Dulski is the perfect person to write this. She's not just a theorist; she was the President of Change.org, the petition platform, and scaled it from 18 million to over 180 million users. She’s seen this happen thousands of times. Olivia: Exactly. She also led Facebook Groups, so she understands community from the ground up. The book became a Wall Street Journal Bestseller, and it really distills her life's work into a playbook for making change. It’s all about this fundamental choice: are you a manager, who keeps the wheels turning, or are you a movement starter, who builds a whole new vehicle? Jackson: I love that distinction. Because a lot of us feel like we're just managing our own lives, let alone starting a movement. So, let's start there. Tell me about this Gatorade-fueled teenage rebellion.

Olivia: Okay, so let's talk about that 15-year-old, because her story is the perfect entry point. Her name is Sarah Kavanagh, and she's from Mississippi. One day, she's about to drink an orange Gatorade and, on a whim, decides to Google the ingredients. Jackson: A habit that has probably terrified millions of us at some point. What did she find? Olivia: She finds an ingredient called brominated vegetable oil, or BVO. A little more digging reveals that BVO is a flame retardant, and it’s been banned as a food additive in over a hundred countries, including all of Europe and Japan. Jackson: Wait, a flame retardant? In her sports drink? That is… unsettling. Olivia: To say the least. So Sarah, feeling like this is just fundamentally wrong, does what any of us might think of doing. She starts a petition on Change.org. The ask is simple and direct: "PepsiCo, please remove BVO from Gatorade." Jackson: Okay, but hold on. This is where these stories usually end for most people. You start a petition, your mom signs it, your best friend signs it, and then it just… fades into the digital ether. What made hers different? Olivia: This is the first key insight from the book. Dulski calls it the power of the "unexpected voice." A plea from a CEO or a politician can feel calculated. But a genuine, passionate request from a 15-year-old girl in Mississippi? That cuts through the noise. It feels authentic. Jackson: It’s pure. There’s no agenda other than "this seems wrong." Olivia: Precisely. And that purity is magnetic. The petition starts getting shared. It picks up a few hundred signatures, then a few thousand. Soon, major news outlets are calling her. She ends up on national television, telling her story. She’s not an expert, she’s not a scientist. She’s just a kid who asked a simple question. Jackson: And PepsiCo is now in a PR nightmare. They're being called out on the Today show by a teenager. Olivia: Exactly. The pressure becomes immense. And in less than three months, PepsiCo announces they are removing BVO from Gatorade. Then Sarah, empowered by this win, starts another petition aimed at Coca-Cola to remove it from Powerade. And eventually, both companies remove BVO from all their drinks worldwide. Jackson: That is incredible. All from one Google search. It really speaks to the book's idea of "being the first to clap." You know, that metaphor of starting a movement by being the lone person in an auditorium who stands up and starts applauding. Olivia: It’s a perfect example. And the book acknowledges how terrifying that is. Nobody wants to be the lone weirdo clapping in a silent room. But Dulski argues that the fear of not acting, of letting an injustice stand, has to become greater than the fear of looking foolish. Sarah Kavanagh wasn't trying to be a hero; she just couldn't not do something. Jackson: It redefines what "starting" means. It’s not about having a ten-point plan and a million-dollar budget. It's about taking that first, small, visible step. It’s about being willing to be that person who says, "Hey, is anyone else seeing this?" Olivia: And that’s the spark. But a spark needs a blueprint to become a fire. It's not enough to just point out a problem. You have to guide people toward a solution, and that often means dealing with some very powerful people who might not want to change.

Jackson: Right. So you've sparked something. A teenager taking on a corporation is one thing. But how do you persuade a government, a true 'Goliath' with entrenched power and a million reasons to say no? Olivia: This is where the book gets really interesting, because it challenges the classic David versus Goliath story. We think of it as a fight to the death. Dulski argues for a more sophisticated approach: treating Goliath as a potential partner. Jackson: That sounds… counter-intuitive. Activism is supposed to be confrontational, right? You speak truth to power. Olivia: You do, but how you speak that truth matters. The book tells the story of an organization called Crisis Action in 2007. At the time, there was a brutal military crackdown on peaceful protestors and Buddhist monks in Myanmar. The world was outraged, but governments were slow to act. Jackson: A classic case of political inertia. Olivia: Exactly. Crisis Action wanted the UK government, led by Prime Minister Gordon Brown at the time, to push for sanctions. The standard activist playbook would be to organize massive protests, chain themselves to Downing Street, and publicly shame the government into acting. Jackson: Shouting outside his office, basically. Olivia: But they did something different. They used a technique the book calls "power mapping." They researched Gordon Brown and his key aides. They learned what his political priorities were, what he cared about, and what a "win" would look like for him. They discovered he wanted to be seen as a global moral leader. Jackson: Ah, so they found his motivation. It wasn't just about sanctions; it was about his legacy. Olivia: Precisely. So, instead of attacking him, they built a bridge. They organized a private, high-profile meeting for him with senior Burmese Buddhist monks, the heads of major unions, and former political prisoners from Myanmar. It was an incredibly powerful, emotional, and media-friendly event. Jackson: So instead of shouting outside his office, they basically handed him a political win on a silver platter. They made him the hero of the story. Olivia: They made it easy for him to say yes. He got to stand alongside these incredibly sympathetic figures and declare his support. He looked strong, compassionate, and decisive on the world stage. A few days later, the UN took its first-ever action on Myanmar, and the EU imposed sanctions. It was a massive victory. Jackson: That is a total reframe of activism. It’s not a battle; it's a seduction. You’re not trying to defeat your opponent; you're trying to align their interests with yours. Olivia: And that’s the blueprint. It starts with a clear vision—a world where this injustice doesn't exist. Then you tell a compelling story to mobilize support. And finally, you approach the decision-maker not as an enemy to be conquered, but as a complex human being with their own needs and desires. You find a way to make your victory their victory too. Jackson: But that requires a huge amount of emotional intelligence and resilience. Because while you're trying to persuade Goliath, you've also got your own crew to lead and a whole lot of people telling you you're crazy. Olivia: You are absolutely right. And that brings us to the unglamorous, human reality of this work: the grind.

Olivia: And this sophisticated approach requires a different kind of leader. It's not just about strategy; it's about managing the human element—your team and yourself, especially when the 'haterade,' as Dulski calls it, starts flowing. Jackson: 'Haterade' is such a perfect term for it. That toxic cocktail of criticism, negativity, and trolling you get anytime you try to do something new or meaningful. Olivia: The book is very clear: if you are not getting criticism, you are probably not making enough of a difference. But knowing that doesn't make it easier to swallow. Dulski offers a lot of practical advice, but the most powerful insights are about perspective. Jackson: How do you mean? Olivia: She shares a deeply personal story. Years ago, her daughter Emma had a terrible accident on a playground and suffered a serious head injury. She describes the sheer terror of that phone call and the days spent in the hospital, not knowing if her daughter would be okay. Jackson: Oh, wow. That’s every parent's worst nightmare. Olivia: Thankfully, Emma made a full recovery. But Dulski says that experience put everything else into sharp perspective. The daily frustrations, the professional setbacks, the nasty comments online—they all shrank in comparison. It taught her a profound lesson in compassion. Jackson: That makes the 'Bear Hug' approach she talks about—approaching critics with empathy—feel less like a tactic and more like a genuine philosophy. It’s grounded in real pain and real perspective. Olivia: Exactly. It’s about remembering what Robin Roberts wrote, which Dulski quotes: "Everybody's got something." The person leaving a hateful comment might be dealing with their own private tragedy. That doesn't excuse their behavior, but it can change how you react to it. It allows you to separate the destructive 'haterade' from potentially constructive feedback. Jackson: And it also highlights the importance of your own support system, your own crew. You can't face that negativity alone. How does the book suggest you lead that crew when you're all in the trenches together? Olivia: It comes down to three core motivators: Purpose, Growth, and Connection. She argues that great leaders constantly connect their team's work back to the purpose—like Neil Grimmer at Plum Organics, who would end every meeting with a "Love Bomb," a story from a family whose life was made easier by their products. Jackson: So it’s a constant reminder of why the work matters. Olivia: Yes. And for growth, it’s about trusting your team, giving them autonomy, and setting high expectations—the Pygmalion effect. And finally, connection. Building real, trusting relationships. Google did a massive two-year study on team effectiveness, and the number one factor for high-performing teams wasn't talent or experience. It was psychological safety. Jackson: The feeling that you can be vulnerable, take risks, and make mistakes without being punished for it. Olivia: The feeling that your team has your back. Which is exactly what you need when you’re trying to do something hard, something that has never been done before. You need a crew that feels safe enough to fail, learn, and try again, all while the world is throwing haterade at you.

Jackson: So what I'm really taking away from this is that 'movement starting' isn't a personality type you're born with. It's not about being a charismatic genius. It's a set of learnable skills. Olivia: That’s the whole point. It’s a craft. It’s a series of deliberate, human-centered steps that anyone can learn to take. Jackson: It’s the courage to start small, like Sarah Kavanagh. It’s the strategic empathy to persuade, like Crisis Action did with the British government. And it’s the deep, human resilience to endure the journey, which Dulski learned through her own life. Olivia: Exactly. And the book ends with this beautiful idea that you never know who you might inspire. Taryn Brumfitt, an Australian mom, posted a 'reverse' before-and-after photo—her super-fit bodybuilder physique was the 'before,' and her happy, natural body was the 'after.' It went viral and started a global body positivity movement. She wasn't trying to start a movement; she was just sharing her truth. Jackson: And Amanda Nguyen, the activist, had that incredible encounter with an Uber driver who broke down in tears, thanking her for fighting for his daughter, who was also a survivor. He said, "I love you." She never would have known she'd reached him. Olivia: That’s it. The goal isn't to know your impact. The goal is to live a life in pursuit of it. And Dulski’s call to action is simple: find one small thing you care about, one thing that feels wrong or could be better, and take the first step. Jackson: Be the first to clap. Olivia: Be the first to clap. Jackson: We'd love to hear what movements, big or small, our listeners are part of or want to start. What's the one thing you'd be willing to clap for first? Share your stories with the Aibrary community. Olivia: This is Aibrary, signing off.