Alex: Hey everyone, welcome back! Today we're talking about something super cool: how the words you use can either build bridges or burn them. Ever wish you had a secret code to understand what “really” makes people tick? Michelle: A secret code, Alex? Are we talking Jedi mind tricks, or just being a better listener? Alex: Not quite Jedi, Michelle, but almost! It’s called the LAB Profile, which comes from Shelle Rose Charvet's book Words That Change Minds. It's a tool rooted in Neuro-Linguistic Programming—NLP—that helps you spot patterns in how people behave and make decisions. Basically, it's about tweaking how you talk to someone so it clicks with their motivations, whether they're all about chasing goals, dodging problems, or how they make decisions in their mind. Michelle: Okay, so you’re saying we can sprinkle this magic communication dust everywhere? Boardrooms, classrooms, even Thanksgiving dinner with the in-laws? Alex: Precisely! And that’s what’s so powerful about it. Today, we'll explore three key areas: First, the foundation of NLP. Then, we'll uncover the behavioral traits the LAB Profile identifies. Finally, we’ll discuss how to leverage these insights in areas like leadership and marketing. Think of it as unlocking a deeper understanding of human behavior! Michelle: Unlock, huh? Alright, Alex, let’s see if this book can pick the lock on my cynicism. Challenge accepted.

Alex: So, picking up where we left off, at the heart of the LAB Profile lies Neuro-Linguistic Programming, or NLP. Basically, it’s a system that tries to explain how we, as humans, kind of “program” ourselves through our experiences, our environment, and of course, our thoughts and language. Michelle: "Program"? That sounds like we're robots getting coded. Are we really that predictable? Isn't that a bit of an oversimplified metaphor for human behavior? Alex: I get your point, Michelle. It's not about reducing people to code. Although, I can see why the term ‘program’ might give you that impression. NLP is more about identifying patterns—how people think, how they process info, and how they react to different situations. Think of it like spotting threads in a tapestry; we're all unique, but certain patterns keep popping up and tell us something about the overall picture. Michelle: Okay, I'm following you. So, if NLP is about patterns, what's the deal with modeling behaviors? It sounds like we're just saying, "Find someone successful and copy them"? Alex: In a way, yes. NLP brought in this idea of "modeling," which is about observing what successful people do — how they think, talk, and act — and then breaking those things down into steps that anyone can follow. Sort of reverse engineering success, if you will. But here's the kicker: the original NLP framework had, like, over 60 of these patterns. Can you imagine? Way too much for most people. That's where the LAB Profile comes in; it narrows it down to the 14 most important ones. Michelle: Ah, so Rodger Bailey, the LAB Profile's creator, basically said, "Let's cut the clutter and give people something they can actually use." Makes sense. What are these 14 language and motivation patterns? Give us an example. Alex: Sure, a classic example is the "Toward" versus "Away From" pattern. Someone who's "Toward" motivated is really driven by goals—they get energy from thinking about what they can achieve. Think of someone who's always saying, "I want to get promoted by next year," or "I'm working towards finishing a marathon." Michelle: Ambitious types. I get it. What about the "Away From" crowd? Are those the folks who just want to survive the marathon? Alex: Exactly! "Away From" people are motivated by avoiding problems or minimizing risks. So, if you're trying to sell them something, you'd focus on how it solves issues or prevents setbacks. For them, you might say, "This plan will make sure we avoid any unnecessary obstacles," instead of, "This will help us achieve our dreams." Michelle: Interesting, so one group is chasing rainbows, and the other is running away from storm clouds. What about communication styles? You mentioned proactive and reactive earlier, right? Alex: Right. That’s another useful distinction from the LAB Profile. Proactive people want to just jump in and take charge. They like direct, concise communication. A proactive person might say, "Let's start this project today." Reactive people are the opposite — they prefer to wait, observe, and gather all the input before acting. They use more cautious language, like, "Let's look at all the details before we move forward." Michelle: And I’ll bet those communication styles can lead to some major clashes. Can you imagine a super proactive manager trying to light a fire under a reactive employee who just wants to think things through? Recipe for disaster. Alex: Exactly. That's why this isn't just a theory, it’s practical. When you recognize these traits, you can meet people where they are, you know? Instead of trying to force them into your own way of thinking. For example, leaders can frame tasks differently depending on whether their team likes to work independently or if they prefer step-by-step instructions. Michelle: Speaking of guiding people, I get that the LAB Profile simplifies things, but isn't it still a little... deterministic? Are we saying, "You're 'Toward'," or "You're 'Reactive'," as if people can just be put into one box? Alex: That’s a great question, Michelle. It’s so important to keep in mind that these patterns are all about context—they’re not set-in-stone personality traits. Someone might be proactive at work but reactive at home. Or, they might be "Toward" motivated for their career but "Away From" when it comes to their health. So, the labeling isn't strict, it's just a way to understand someone's current tendencies and adjust how you interact with them. Michelle: Okay, that makes sense. Let’s get out of the theoretical for a minute here. You mentioned earlier that this has real-world applications in fields like education and hiring, so, tell me more. Alex: Sure. A practical real-world example would be writing a job ad. Let's say you're searching for an innovative thinker; you'd use language that highlights creativity and flexibility. You might use phrases like " explore new solutions" and "adapt quickly." Now, if you're searching for someone detail-oriented, you'd focus on structure and precision. Try using, “ensure consistency” or “execute step-by-step plans.” Michelle: That makes sense. So, you're basically speaking their psychological “language” right from the start. What about sales? I bet this could be a goldmine there. Alex: Absolutely! A salesperson trained in the LAB Profile could figure out a client's "Away From" motivation within minutes of talking to them. If a client keeps asking about potential risks, costs, or worst-case scenarios, the salesperson would immediately change their approach to focus on safety and reliability, saying, "This option minimizes possible loss." But if it's a "Toward" client, they might talk more about potential gains, saying, "This is how this will increase your market share." Michelle: I can totally picture those subtle conversational shifts. Subtle, yet effective. And speaking of subtlety, something that I found really interesting in this text was the idea of distortion as a useful tool. How does that fit into all of this? Alex: Ah, distortion. A seemingly negative concept that’s turned on its head. In NLP, distortion refers to how our minds reshape reality. For instance, someone who’s super optimistic and “Toward” motivated might picture a future where success is guaranteed. Now, you might see this distortion as an issue, but it motivates them because it helps them visualize and pursue that goal. Going the other way, “Away From” people might use distortion to imagine the worst-case scenario. To communicate with them effectively means recognizing their concerns and grounding them in realistic solutions. Michelle: That's actually a really interesting idea. We all bend reality differently, whether that's towards optimism or caution. The LAB Profile just gives us the ability to recognize that bending so we can work with it, rather than fight it. Alex: Exactly. That’s what’s so great about the LAB Profile, how adaptable it is. No matter if you're trying to motivate a team, teach some students, persuade clients, or even sort out tricky personal relationships, understanding these patterns makes communication a tool for connection instead of conflict.

Alex: Exactly! So, understanding these core concepts “really” sets the stage for diving into the LAB Profile itself. Michelle: Which, as I understand it, gets into the real-world applications, right? Alex: Absolutely! The exciting part about the LAB Profile is that it bridges theory and practice. We're talking actionable traits, like how people are motivated, how they prefer to work... And, you know, once we “really” grasp these patterns, we can apply them to everything, from refining team dynamics to crafting more effective communication strategies. It's essentially a roadmap for understanding behavior. Michelle: Okay, so we're getting into the nitty-gritty. Let's start with motivational traits. You've already mentioned "Toward" versus "Away From." What other categories fit in here? Alex: Great question! Another “really” important motivational trait is "Internal" versus "External." And this refers to how people validate decisions, you know? An "Internal" person “really” relies on their own judgment. So, if you tell them, "This is the best solution out there," they'll probably respond with something like, "I'll decide if it's the best, thank you very much." Meanwhile, an "External" person needs validation from others—think testimonials, awards, or detailed feedback. They'll want to hear, "This solution was rated number one by 90% of users." Michelle: So, if I’m trying to win over an External client, I should bombard them with five-star reviews and industry awards? Alex: Exactly. Michelle: Got it. But what if I’m dealing with someone who’s smack in the middle—neither fully Internal nor External? Alex: Well, many people are a mix, which is why adaptability is so crucial. So, for someone in the middle, you’d balance your approach. You could start with external validation to build trust, and then provide space for personal deliberation. Something like, "This comes highly recommended, but I'd love to hear how it aligns with your specific needs." Michelle: Okay, that’s neat. But let’s shift gears to working traits—like Independent versus Cooperative. How are these preferences spotted in the wild? Alex: It often starts with observation. An Independent-working individual just prefers autonomy. They thrive when they have control over their tasks and decision-making freedom. For example, they'll excel when you say, "Here's the goal; I trust you to figure out the best way to get us there." On the flip side, a Cooperative worker thrives on collaboration. They love team brainstorms and group problem-solving. You'll hear them asking questions like, "How can we approach this together?" Michelle: So, if I shove my Independent employees into group meetings every day, they’re going to feel like they’re wading through quicksand. And if I leave my Cooperative folks to fend for themselves, they're going to feel lost at sea, right? Alex: Exactly! And here’s the kicker—it's not just about individuals. Entire work environments are often set up to favor one trait over another. For instance, if your company values intense collaboration but doesn't provide space for independent contributions, you risk alienating those Independent types. It's all about balance, really. Michelle: Speaking of balance, what happens when working styles directly clash? Say, when you’ve got an Independent employee under a Cooperative manager? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Alex: Oh, it can be, and we see it all the time. One case study covered in the book tells the story of exactly this mismatch. The employee, an Assistant HR Director, loved working autonomously. He was great at managing his own processes. But his manager was Cooperative through and through, always involving the team in decision-making and encouraging constant collaboration. Eventually, the Independent employee felt suffocated by what he saw as micromanagement, while the manager got frustrated by the perceived lack of teamwork. Michelle: Let me guess—productivity plummeted, and everyone just started resenting each other. So, what's the solution in situations like that? Alex: The LAB Profile offers a lifeline, honestly. In this case, the manager could've adjusted expectations to allow for autonomy while still setting collaborative milestones. For example, framing a project as "Here's what we need to accomplish as a team, and I'll let you decide how to approach your part." Meanwhile, the employee could've learned to contribute to strategic team discussions without compromising his independence. It's about, you know, meeting in the middle. Michelle: Okay, that makes sense. Now, back to motivational traits for a second. You mentioned “Toward” versus “Away From,” “Internal” versus “External.” Are there other important factors we’re missing? Alex: Absolutely. Another key category is "Options" versus "Procedures." And this one gets at how people prefer to approach tasks. Do they like exploring a lot of alternatives, or do they “really” prefer sticking to tried-and-true methods? An "Options" person loves brainstorming and thrives when they have many pathways to solve a problem. A "Procedures" person, on the other hand, focuses on structure and step-by-step processes. They’d rather hear, “This is how we've always done it, and it works," than “Let's think outside the box.” Michelle: So, basically, Options people are rebels, and Procedures folks are rule-followers. But what happens, though, when these mindsets clash in something like a team project? Alex: Well, take a marketing team, for example. An Options-oriented employee might pitch, like, 20 out-of-the-box ideas for a campaign, frustrating their Procedures-oriented coworker, who's probably thinking, "Can we just follow the proven playbook?" Awareness of these dynamics helps both sides, you know? The Options person could share their ideas within a structured framework, while the Procedures person might experiment with implementing one maybe one or two fresh ideas alongside the usual process. Michelle: That’s a clever way to compromise. Now, here’s something that caught my attention—didn’t the book mention how "Away From" motivation—which is typically seen as cautious—can also be a strength? I thought that was pretty contrarian. Alex: It totally flips conventional wisdom, yeah. "Away From" motivation excels in environments where risk management is crucial, like compliance-heavy industries—think finance or healthcare. Imagine a "Toward" personality leading quality assurance in those fields. They'd be all about speed and innovation but might overlook potential risks. Pairing them with an "Away From" colleague ensures checks and balances; enthusiasm meets oversight. Michelle: It’s teamwork born of friction. But what about leadership? Aren’t organizations always favoring those goal-driven "Toward" types for top positions? Alex: That's a fair point. "Toward" leaders do dominate the narratives we hear about success—visionaries chasing the next big thing. But "Away From" leaders shine when stability and risk mitigation are priorities. Reframing "Away From" as a strength, not a weakness, encourages teams to value these leaders’ abilities rather than stigmatizing them as overly cautious. It's about recognizing when their motivations are exactly what the situation demands. Michelle: So, what I’m gathering is that motivational and working traits are less about putting people in boxes and more about understanding how they contribute best? Whether someone is a Procedures-driven, "Away From" risk manager or an Independent, "Toward" goal-getter, it’s not about better or worse—it’s about complementary roles. Alex: Exactly! The LAB Profile isn’t about labeling. It’s about harmonizing. When you implement it thoughtfully, whether in hiring, managing, or even just personal conversations, you unlock everyone's potential. Because you're aligning with their natural patterns instead of fighting them. And that's the true power of this framework.

Alex: Okay, so after all this theory, let's talk about putting this into practice. This is where it gets exciting, because it can “really” change things. Michelle: Exactly. Understanding patterns and motivations is interesting, sure, but I’m all about results. Show me the LAB Profile in action. Alex: Absolutely. Its potential is huge across different fields—from managing teams in companies to making marketing plans better, or even changing how we hire people. The important thing is that mastering the LAB Profile isn’t just about better communication. It’s a way to constantly improve and have more influence. Michelle: Okay, give me a real example. If I’m leading a team, how do I use this to make things work better? Alex: Okay, perfect. Imagine you have a team of different people. The LAB Profile helps you see their working styles—Independent, Proximity, or Cooperative. Let’s say you have someone who's Independent. They like to work alone and figure things out themselves. If you’re always trying to get everyone involved in every decision, that person won’t be happy, right? Instead, you could say, “Here’s what we need to do. I trust you to handle it.” Michelle: Got it. And what about the Cooperative types? Do they want team-building exercises every week? Alex: <Laughs> Almost! They value teamwork and everyone’s ideas. So, for them, you could say, “Let’s talk about this together. I want to hear what you think.” The cool thing about the LAB Profile is that you can see these differences and change how you lead to fit each person. Michelle: Okay, makes sense in theory, but does it actually work? Give me a story where this approach made a real difference. Alex: There’s a great example in the book from a youth organization. The Assistant HR Director was very Independent, loved managing her own projects. But her manager was Cooperative and liked group brainstorming. So, they clashed. The director felt like she was being watched too closely, and the manager felt like she wasn’t part of the team. Michelle: Let me guess: the LAB Profile helped them understand each other? Alex: Exactly. It showed them that it wasn’t personal, just different work styles. The manager learned to give the director more space, saying things like, “Here’s the project. Do it your way.” And the director tried to participate more in group meetings. It made everyone happier and more productive. Michelle: So LAB is like translating between people, helping them understand each other's language at work. Alex: Exactly. Now, imagine doing that with hundreds of employees—it can change the whole company culture! Michelle: Alright, let’s zoom out. I see how this works inside a company, but what about marketing? How does this help sell stuff? Alex: Marketing is perfect for the LAB Profile. Take "Toward" versus "Away From." Someone who is "Toward" wants to hear about benefits and opportunities, like, “This will make you look great for summer.” Someone "Away From" wants to avoid problems, like, “This will keep you healthy.” Michelle: So, same product, totally different sales pitches. It’s amazing how many companies mess this up. Alex: They do, if they don't adapt. Burger King’s “Your way. Right away” campaign was great. It spoke to people who like to customize things. It worked “really” well, unlike McDonald’s more standard menu. And remember Canada Trust’s, “The best mortgage package in Canada? You be the judge.” That appealed to people who want to make their own decisions. Michelle: Smart moves. But it’s not just about selling burgers, right? What about hiring? How can LAB profiling help find the right people? Alex: Hiring is another great use. An engineering firm needed a production manager. Their first ad used "Toward" language—goals, challenges, growth. But the job needed someone "Away From," focused on preventing mistakes. The ad didn't work. Only one qualified person applied out of 300! Michelle: Wow. So they changed the ad? Alex: Yes, they used phrases like "prevent workflow disruptions," to attract an "Away From" person. They got 100 new applications, and eight were highly qualified. Just by changing the language! Michelle: That’s a huge difference! It’s interesting that being "Away From," which isn't always seen as positive, can actually be a good thing. Can you talk more about that? Alex: Sure. Focusing on "Away From" is great in industries where you need to avoid risks, like in law or finance. These people are good at spotting problems. If you combine them with "Toward" thinkers, you get a good balance—ambitious ideas combined with caution. Like a quality control team working with a design team. Michelle: It’s all about balance, huh? The LAB Profile is great at turning differences into strengths. Alex: Exactly! It’s not about labeling people, but about understanding what motivates them and how they work best. This can change workplaces, schools, relationships… It turns potential conflicts into chances to work together. Michelle: So it's not just about understanding words, but using them to connect across industries, teams, and maybe even difficult family situations! Alex: Exactly! With the LAB Profile, those situations can become calmer discussions. It’s a great step towards better communication and understanding.

Alex: Okay, so let’s bring it all together. Today, we dove into the LAB Profile and how it breaks down human behavior into patterns you can actually use. We used Neuro-Linguistic Programming insights. We talked about those motivational traits, like “Toward” versus “Away From,” and how they drive decisions. And, uh, we touched on working traits, like being “Independent” or “Cooperative,” and how knowing those things can "really" boost team performance. Michelle: Yeah, exactly. And I think what’s key is realizing these aren’t just boxes to shove people into. They're tools, right? Tools to help you connect with people on their level. Whether you're, you know, leading a team, trying to sell something, or even just hiring someone new. The real trick is tailoring your approach to match how someone’s naturally motivated. It's way more effective than trying to force them to be something they're not. Alex: Precisely! I think the real beauty of the LAB Profile is how flexible it is. You can use it for anything. From making your marketing campaigns better to, you know, smoothing things over at work, basically it turns communication into a real connection. Michelle: Right. So, here’s what I want you to think about. Start listening for these patterns, okay? Is someone talking about what they want to achieve, or are they more focused on avoiding problems? Are they all about collaborating, or do they prefer to work alone? Just spotting one of these traits can totally change how you interact with them. And, honestly, it might completely change the result you get. Alex: Absolutely. Because, "really", at the end of the day, words aren’t just, you know, filling in the gaps – they're building bridges. So, thanks for tuning in, everyone. Until next time, keep listening, keep adapting, and let’s all move toward better connections. Michelle: Or, you know, away from "really" awkward ones. Catch you next time!