Nova: Eck, as a founder, you're obsessed with building things people want. But what if I told you that the secret to creating desire isn't in a tech blog, but in a 50-year-old book about oil paintings?

eck: I'd be skeptical, but very curious. That's a bold claim.

Nova: Well, get ready. John Berger, in his book "Ways of Seeing," argues that the way we value a priceless Da Vinci is the same way we come to desire a new iPhone. It’s not about the object itself, but about the story we're told—a process he calls 'mystification.' It's a game of perception, and it's a game every founder needs to master.

eck: Okay, now you have my full attention. Mystification. I like the sound of that.

Nova: It’s a powerful concept. And that's what we're going to explore today, using Berger's book as our guide. Today we'll dive deep into this from two powerful perspectives. First, we'll explore 'The Art of Mystification'—how to build an invaluable brand aura, just like the old masters.

eck: Building a brand aura... I'm in.

Nova: Then, we'll dissect what I'm calling 'The Founder's Gaze,' uncovering how the psychology of advertising can be harnessed to drive product adoption by selling transformation, not just features.

eck: Fantastic. This feels like a very different way to think about growth. Let's do it.

Nova: So let's start with that first idea, eck. Mystification. Berger's argument begins with a simple observation: the invention of the camera changed everything. Suddenly, any painting could be reproduced. You can see the Mona Lisa on a coffee mug, on a t-shirt, on your phone. So, what makes the original in the Louvre, behind bulletproof glass, so special?

eck: The fact that it the original. The scarcity. The history. It's the one that Leonardo actually touched.

Nova: Exactly! And Berger says that when an image becomes infinitely reproducible, the value of the original shifts. It's no longer about what the painting or shows us. The value is now in what it: a unique, singular object. It becomes, in his words, a "holy relic."

eck: A holy relic. That's a great way to put it. It has an aura that the copies don't.

Nova: Precisely. And to illustrate this, he tells the story of Leonardo da Vinci's painting, 'The Virgin of the Rocks.' There are two versions. One is in the Louvre in Paris, the other is in the National Gallery in London. For ages, art historians have debated which one is the "real" one, the authentic one. The National Gallery's official catalogue spends pages and pages not talking about the beauty of the painting, but proving its provenance—tracing its ownership history to prove it's the genuine article.

eck: So they're not selling you on the art, they're selling you on the authenticity. The story the art.

Nova: You've got it. The market price, the authenticity, the history—all of this creates a cloud of mystery and reverence around the painting. Berger calls this mystification. It's the process of explaining away what's right in front of you—it's a piece of canvas with paint on it—to create this magical, untouchable value. How does that resonate with you in the startup world?

eck: It's... well, it's the entire playbook for building a premium brand. It's not just what the product does, it's the story you wrap around it. We don't just build software; we build a narrative.

Nova: Give me an example.

eck: Think about any high-end brand, whether it's a physical product or software. A watch company doesn't just sell a device that tells time. They sell a story of Swiss heritage, of hundred-year-old traditions, of meticulous craftsmanship. They are mystifying a piece of metal and gears to make it a 'holy relic' for your wrist. In the software world, we do it all the time. We talk about the 'founding story' in a garage, the 'mission' to change the world. We're creating an aura of purpose and uniqueness that goes way beyond the code.

Nova: So the 'uniqueness' is manufactured? Or at least, amplified?

eck: It's amplified, for sure. We do this with tactics, too. Think about the early days of a hot new app. They use 'early access' lists, invite-only systems. Clubhouse was a master of this. Why? It creates artificial scarcity. It makes the product feel exclusive, like a secret club. You're not just getting an app; you're getting entry into something special. You're getting your hands on that 'holy relic' before anyone else. What's amazing is that Berger identified this strategy decades ago, just by looking at paintings. It's not a new digital trick; it's a centuries-old strategy for creating value.

Nova: It's human psychology. And it's incredibly powerful. But creating value in the product is only half the battle, right? You also have to create desire in the customer.

eck: Exactly. And that's a whole different ballgame.

Nova: I love that connection. So if mystification is about creating value in the, Berger's next big idea is about how you create desire in the. And he argues it's a completely different game. It's not about making them happy with what they have, but making them anxious about who they. Let's talk about what he calls 'publicity,' or what we call advertising.

eck: Okay, the dark arts.

Nova: The dark arts indeed. Berger draws a brilliant contrast. He says traditional oil paintings, the kind commissioned by wealthy patrons, were all about celebrating the status quo. They were a way for the owner to say, "Look at all the wonderful things I own. Look at my beautiful wife, my prize-winning cattle, my magnificent estate." The painting affirmed their existing wealth and status.

eck: It was a form of social proof for the 1%. A visual inventory of their success.

Nova: Perfectly put. But advertising, Berger argues, does the exact opposite. It never celebrates you as you are. It works by showing you an image of someone else—someone who is happier, more beautiful, more successful, more —and implies that they got that way because of a product. It manufactures anxiety. It creates a gap between your current reality and a promised, better future.

eck: And the product is the bridge across that gap.

Nova: That's the promise. He has this killer quote: "Publicity proposes to each of us that we transform ourselves, or our lives, by buying something more." It's never about the present moment; it's always about a future, improved you.

eck: That is, without exaggeration, the absolute foundation of modern marketing and product growth. We have a name for it: 'selling the outcome, not the tool.' We teach our teams this from day one. No one buys a drill because they want a drill; they buy it because they want a hole in the wall. Or, to take it a level deeper, they want the feeling of accomplishment from hanging a family portrait. They're buying an emotional outcome.

Nova: So you're tapping into that anxiety Berger talks about? The feeling of 'my wall is empty, my home is incomplete'?

eck: One hundred percent. We're trained to identify a user's 'pain point,' which is really just a less poetic term for Berger's 'anxiety.' What's keeping them up at night? What are they frustrated with? And then we position our product as the magical solution that transforms that pain into relief, or even better, into triumph.

Nova: He takes it even further. Another quote for you: "Publicity is about social relations, not objects. Its promise is not of pleasure, but of happiness: happiness as judged from the outside by others." He says it's about being envied.

eck: Oh, that's good. That's really good. It's about status. In the B2B software world I live in, you're not just selling a new analytics dashboard. You're selling the vision of the user presenting that dashboard in a board meeting and looking like an absolute genius. You're selling their next promotion. You're selling the envy of their colleagues who are stuck with old, clunky spreadsheets.

Nova: So it's a 'founder's gaze' then? You're looking at your potential customers and seeing a better version of them.

eck: That's a perfect way to frame it. We are constantly looking at our users and imagining a transformed version of them—a version that our product enables. It's a bit cynical when you lay it out so starkly, but it's undeniably how the engine of growth works.

Nova: And Berger connects this to the 'male gaze' in art history, where women in paintings were so often depicted not as themselves, but as passive objects for a male viewer's pleasure. Is there a parallel in that 'founder's gaze'?

eck: Absolutely. The 'user' in an advertisement or on a landing page is often not a real, complex person. They are an idealized object, a symbol representing a future state of success or happiness. And it raises a really important ethical question for founders, one we should be asking ourselves constantly: at what point does inspiring transformation become manipulative exploitation of anxiety? It's a very, very fine line to walk.

Nova: That's such a critical point. So, to bring it all together, we have these two incredibly powerful ideas from a book about art history. First, using 'mystification' to build a brand's aura and value, making your product feel like a 'holy relic.'

eck: Which is all about branding and positioning. Creating that moat around your company.

Nova: And second, using the principles of 'publicity' to tap into user anxiety and sell a personal transformation, not just a product.

eck: Which is the core of marketing and growth. Creating desire in your customer.

Nova: It's a complete, two-part strategy for building a business, hidden in a critique of oil paintings.

eck: It really changes how you see the job of a founder. You're not just a builder or an engineer; you're a meaning-maker. You're a storyteller. The big takeaway for me, and for any founder listening, is to become more conscious of the stories you're telling.

Nova: What's the one question they should ask themselves?

eck: When you design your next feature, or write your next piece of marketing copy, or build your next landing page, ask yourself this: Am I just listing facts, or am I building an aura? Am I just solving a problem, or am I selling a transformation? Understanding that distinction, thanks to Berger, feels like having a superpower.

Nova: The founder as a meaning-maker. I love that. Eck, this has been an absolutely fascinating way to look at the world of startups. Thank you so much for connecting these dots with me.

eck: The pleasure was all mine, Nova. I'll never look at a landing page—or a painting—the same way again.