Roger: Hey everyone, welcome back! I want to kick things off with a question: how much of your day is spent…just “waiting”? Waiting for emails, waiting on approvals, waiting to see if someone actually follows through. Imagine if trust could just…cut through all that. That's exactly what we're talking about today. Patricia: Hold on a sec—so, you're saying trust is like the WD-40 of life? It just…smooths out all the squeaky parts? Roger: <Laughs> That's not a bad analogy, Patricia! Stephen Covey’s The Speed of Trust argues that trust isn't this soft, fuzzy concept. It’s a measurable force that impacts the speed and cost of everything. High trust? Things move fast. Low trust? Everything bogs down. It's expensive, inefficient, and honestly…frustrating. Patricia: So, it’s like…the hidden ingredient in personal success, teamwork, even running a whole company? That sounds like a big claim. Roger: It is a big deal! And Covey breaks it down into a framework called the “Five Waves of Trust”. It starts with you—your self-trust, your credibility—and then radiates outward, impacting your relationships, your organization, and even society. He connects trust to credibility, character, and competence, making it a skill you build, and not just some abstract idea. Patricia: Alright, I’m intrigued. So, what's our angle here? How are we going to tackle this? Roger: We’re going to map out these layers of trust in three key ways. First, we’ll dig into the foundational principles – why is trust essential in any relationship? Second, we’ll explore how organizations use trust to create efficiency and alignment. And third, we're going to show how trustworthy leadership can inspire and transform society. Think of it as a ripple effect – small start, big impact. Patricia: Okay, principles, organizations, and ripple leadership – got it. So, is this about becoming more trustworthy, or about figuring out who to trust? Roger: It's both! Trust works two ways. It requires you to have personal integrity, but it also thrives in environments where it's intentionally fostered. And that's where the magic “really” happens. Patricia: Sounds like we’ve got a lot to unpack here. Let’s dive in, shall we?

Roger: Okay, let's dive into the real heart of trust, what Covey calls its fundamental principle, a combination of “credibility” and the "Four Cores": Integrity, Intent, Capabilities, and Results. It's not just theory; it’s super practical. Each core helps build trust and they’re all connected. Patricia: Four Cores, huh? Let me guess, some are easier to nail than others, right? I mean, "integrity" seems pretty straightforward. Just be honest, right? Or is there a Covey curveball? Roger: It’s a bit more nuanced than just being honest. Integrity is really about making sure your actions line up with your values. It's about that authentic living, consistently showing what you stand for. Take Bill Hewlett, the HP co-founder. When their corporate culture was being questioned, he literally broke the lock on a tool bin, just to show that openness and trust were absolutely crucial to their company. It wasn't just symbolic; it was like him shouting, "Trust is who we are!" Patricia: Interesting. So, integrity in action then. Not just talking about your values, but actually living them? Roger: Exactly! You have to walk the talk. Without that alignment, credibility just crumbles. I mean, how often do we see people lose trust because they say one thing and do another? Like, they promise collaboration, but then they just micromanage everything. Patricia: Okay, I’m with you so far. But what about intent? That seems a little… gray. I mean, do people really buy into your motives, or are they just skeptical from the get-go? Roger: Covey sees intent as the "why" behind what you do. Are you just trying to help yourself, or do you genuinely want to help others too? Doug Conant's leadership at Campbell Soup is a great example. When he became CEO, he didn't just focus on profits; he really made the well-being of his employees a big deal. He wrote over 30,000 personal thank-you notes! It wasn't just a gimmick; it was him saying, "I care about you as people, not just as workers." That created a ton of trust in the company. Patricia: Thirty. Thousand. Notes? Wow, talk about hand cramps! <Laughs> Jokes aside, I get it—you can't fake genuine intent because people will figure it out sooner or later. Roger: Precisely. Being super clear about your intent—and then backing it up with what you do—that gets rid of the doubts and strengthens trust. It's about saying, "Here's why I'm doing this, and here's how it benefits all of us." That just kills the suspicion. Patricia: Makes sense. But let's not forget capability. Here’s the thing: you can have all the right intentions and integrity in the world, but if you can’t actually deliver, people still aren’t going to trust you, right? Roger: Absolutely! That's where your skills and expertise come in. Covey emphasizes that competence is a must when it comes to trust. Think about FedEx. Their whole brand is based on one promise: reliable, on-time delivery. They’ve trained for years to make sure they can do that, even during crazy holiday seasons. Their competence isn’t just about the tech; it’s about being able to handle the unexpected. Trust like that is earned by just doing it consistently. Patricia: So, capability is about more than just being qualified—it's about being adaptable and improving as things change? Roger: Exactly. Stagnation is the enemy of trust. When you stop growing, stop learning, or stop delivering, trust goes away fast. And that goes for entire organizations, not just individuals. You have to develop skills, refine processes, and prove, over and over again, that you can meet expectations. Patricia: Okay, but here’s where I play devil’s advocate: what happens when you’ve got all the skill but no tangible results? Like, sure, you’re perfectly capable, but trust really depends on those results, right? Roger: Bingo! That brings us to the last core—results. This is the tangible, measurable part of trustworthiness. People trust you when you deliver on your promises. Results are like the track record that backs up everything else. Covey himself talks about turning around a division in the Covey Leadership Center that was just stuck. Clients had lost trust because deadlines and expectations weren't being met, so they focused on getting consistent, high-quality outcomes. Once they started delivering, trust followed. Patricia: So, no shortcuts, huh? Results aren’t just about hitting goals—they’re about doing it ethically and sustainably? Roger: Yep, because trust built on shortcuts is fragile. It might last for a bit, but it'll fall apart as soon as the illusion is broken. Ethical, consistent results reinforce everything else—integrity, intent, and capabilities. It's proof that you're the real deal, not just someone with good intentions or theories. Patricia: Alright, summing up—integrity is the moral compass, intent is the motive, capabilities mean you’re equipped to deliver, and results are the receipts. And they all work together—if one piece is missing, the whole structure wobbles. Roger: Exactly! Covey’s point is you can’t just focus on one or two of these. They all connect and strengthen each other to create real, lasting trust. Whether you’re talking about a relationship, a team, or a company, mastering these four cores gives you a “really” solid foundation.

Roger: Okay, Patricia, perfect segue! So, we're expanding from individual trust outward to Relationship Trust and Organizational Trust. This is where personal principles meet team dynamics and organizational structures. Covey really digs into how organizational systems, culture, and leadership all play a part. And honestly, teams can either supercharge trust or completely destroy it. Patricia: So, it's not just about water cooler chat and team-building, right? We're talking about systemic trust, not just whether people like each other? Roger: Exactly. Covey’s “Relationship Trust” focuses on how people behave in relationships, but “Organizational Trust” is deeper. It’s about making sure the company’s policies, systems, and leadership actually reflect its values. Think of it as creating a space where trust grows naturally instead of being choked by bureaucracy and inconsistency. Patricia: Alright, but Relationship Trust first—those, what, 13 behaviors? Are we going through all of them, or just the highlights? Roger: Definitely not all 13! Let's focus on a few key ones. First, Talk Straight. This is about clarity–no double-speak, no hidden agendas, no sugarcoating. When leaders promise transparency but only give you half the story, trust just disappears. Remember Donald Carty at American Airlines and that executive perks scandal? Classic example of failing to talk straight. Employees found out about those secret perks while they were making sacrifices. Trust in leadership? Gone. Patricia: Ouch, that's rough. So you mean, be honest without the fine print. As you hint, transparency is also key, right? Roger: Totally. Create Transparency overlaps with Talk Straight, but it’s more about being proactively open. Companies that practice Open Book Management are a great example. They share key financial data with employees, making sure they understand why decisions are made. It’s a bold move, and it builds trust, especially when people feel included and respected. Patricia: Ah, so it's the difference between "Tell me what I need to know," versus "Let me show you why you need to know it." Transparency sounds good in theory but terrifying in practice. Leaders might worry that opening up about finances or problems will just create panic or invite criticism. Roger: And that's where trust becomes a two-way street. Leaders who are transparent often find their people step up. Like Gerard Arpey, who took over from Carty at American Airlines. He didn't just talk about transparency; he actually did it. He shared the decision-making with union reps, brought them into the process, and rebuilt what Carty’s actions had broken. Patricia: Okay, I see how individual relationships depend on things like transparency and straight talking. So what happens when we zoom out to Organizational Trust – when it's not about people but the whole system? Roger: That brings us to the “Third Wave: Organizational Trust”. If personal relationship depends on behaviors, Organizational Trust depends on “alignment”. You have to make sure the company’s systems actually reflect the values it claims to have. When companies say one thing but do another, trust gets destroyed from the inside. Patricia: Systems and operations…Okay, that’s about incentives, policies, even the office layout, right? Roger: Exactly. If the organizational structure contradicts the values, people will notice. Think about Bill Hewlett at HP, breaking the lock on the tool bin. It wasn't just rebellion; it was a correction. A locked tool bin didn't fit with a company that valued collaboration and trust. It sent a powerful message: "We value trust over bureaucracy." Patricia: So, if things don't align, you get inefficiencies, right? The systems don't flow, decisions take longer, people second-guess everything…trust gets taxed. Roger: Yes! Covey even talks about "trust tax" versus "trust dividend." High-trust organizations get dividends—greater efficiency, more innovation, faster turnaround. Low-trust? Bureaucracy and micromanagement clog everything up, wasting resources. When was the last time a team crushed a deadline in a low-trust environment? Patricia: Never. And that inefficiency kills morale, too. Teams stop trying, people disengage, and then you get turnover. You mentioned alignment earlier; how do leaders even know if their organizations are truly aligned with their values? Roger: You have to start by asking tough questions about your infrastructure. Do your policies empower people or control them? Do they encourage responsibility or just focus on compliance? Look at the symbols and traditions within the company. Do they say, "We trust you," or "We suspect you"? Patricia: Gotcha. So, trust-building isn’t just about the fancy value statements. It's baked into the systems, policies, the day-to-day stuff that signals: "We mean what we say." Roger: Exactly. A great example of a company with high alignment? Nordstrom. Their employee handbook is one sentence long: "Use good judgment." That's trust expressed through simplicity—no big manuals, no micromanaging. But behind that message is a leadership style that actually lets employees use that judgment confidently. Patricia: One-sentence handbook would make onboarding so much easier. Okay, alignment. Harder to scale, but it pays off. What if a company already has complex systems? Can they fix it? Roger: Absolutely, but it takes real effort. Leaders have to overhaul those misaligned systems and re-prioritize processes that build trust. Sometimes it's about cutting unnecessary bureaucracy; other times, it's creating clear paths for accountability and collaboration. Everything should point back to the company’s values. That Hewlett tool bin story shows how those symbolic gestures can ripple through the culture. Patricia: Alright, so it turns out there are many layers of trust. Building trust isn’t just surface-level—it’s about behaviors, alignment, culture, and process. Anything else we need to dig into at the organizational level before we zoom out even further? Roger: I feel we’ve covered the core. Relationship Trust and Organizational Trust together form the cultural core of a company. But where this really shines is when trust walks out the door—when organizations extend it outward into their reputations and communities. Then we get into Market Trust and Societal Trust. Trust stops being internal and becomes the foundation of how companies engage with the world at large.

Roger: Moving beyond just how trust works in companies, we're now looking at how it affects society and leadership. We've talked about trust between people, teams, and companies, but now we're zooming out. Let's discuss how trust helps society and makes leaders great. This pulls everything together, showing how trust on a personal and company level affects society and what amazing leadership looks like in that context. Patricia: Okay, so we’re talking big picture now, right? Trust isn't just about making things run smoothly or getting along with people; it's what holds society together and what makes leaders truly powerful. Roger: Absolutely. Trust doesn't just make teams and systems work better. It’s actually essential for keeping democracy alive, ensuring leaders are ethical, and helping communities bounce back from tough times. Let’s start with trust in society as a whole. Covey sees it as the foundation of a healthy democracy and a thriving community, and without it, society's agreement on how to function falls apart. Patricia: Societal trust… that sounds kind of vague. How do you even measure it? Is it just whether people trust politicians to do their jobs? Roger: It’s bigger than just politics, though trust in the government is a big part of it. Societal trust is a two-way street. People trust their leaders and institutions to be fair and honest, and in return, they participate in society by paying taxes, following laws, and voting. It's an environment where trust among citizens matters, too. Think about what happens in a society with high trust: neighbors help each other out, businesses do well, and communities flourish. Patricia: Okay, that sounds ideal, but what happens when things go wrong? Societal trust feels pretty fragile. One scandal, one bad leader, and the whole thing can crumble. Roger: Exactly, so that’s why trust needs to be actively maintained. Take Johnson & Johnson during the Tylenol crisis back in the 80s. Someone had messed with their products, putting cyanide in Tylenol capsules, and it caused widespread panic. Instead of hiding, they took immediate action. They pulled over $100 million worth of products off the shelves across the country, doing it voluntarily before any regulations required them to do so. They also introduced tamper-proof packaging, which was new at the time, and launched transparent communication campaigns to rebuild public trust. Patricia: So, they weren’t just protecting their brand; they were protecting the people. Even though it cost them a lot in the short term, the long-term loyalty and trust made it worthwhile. Roger: Exactly. That decision solidified J&J's reputation as a trustworthy company. Compare that to Enron. Initially, they were praised as a great company, but they built their success on fraud. When the truth came out, it not only destroyed the company but also damaged trust in corporate governance across the board. It was a betrayal of societal trust, and the fallout led to significant regulatory changes because people no longer trusted businesses to regulate themselves. Patricia: So, on one hand, J&J used ethics and transparency to strengthen their relationship with society. Enron, on the other hand, destroyed it with lies. Societal trust is not something you can take lightly. If you break it, the consequences go beyond just your reputation; they affect the economy, regulations, and society as a whole. Roger: Exactly. And it’s not just companies. Countries and systems fall apart when societal trust disappears. Look at communities struggling with mistrust of the police. If people feel that institutions don't care about their best interests, cooperation breaks down, leading to conflict or systemic failure. Patricia: Okay, I get societal trust. But leadership feels more personal. How does trust in leadership extend beyond individual influence to affect society or organizations? Roger: Leadership is where trust in organizations and society comes together. Great leaders empower people to trust themselves first, and then they create environments where trust flourishes outward. Covey emphasizes that trust-based leadership unlocks people's potential and drives excellence. There’s a compelling example in Covey’s own life: early in his career, John Walsh, a senior partner, endorsed him publicly, stating, “I like this man. I believe in him. I want him on my team.” Those words transformed Covey’s performance. Walsh’s willingness to extend trust energized him to become the firm’s top leasing agent. Patricia: So, it’s more than just delegating tasks; it’s about empowering people through trust. Are you saying that good leaders don't micromanage; they empower others? Roger: Exactly. By intentionally extending trust and balancing it with accountability, leaders inspire motivation, creativity, and a sense of ownership. Look at Sam Walton from Walmart. He believed in promoting people based on their potential, not just their resumes. He once pushed for an unusual promotion, believing an employee could excel in a leadership role despite hesitations from others. That decision didn’t just work out; it demonstrated his philosophy of trust. Patricia: Right, “Smart Trust.” It’s not about blindly trusting everyone, but about carefully balancing faith and judgment, right? Roger: Exactly. Blind trust ignores risks, while smart trust considers credibility and decision-making processes. Walton and Walsh weren’t just trusting randomly; they had observed potential and acted decisively based on that knowledge. And research supports this approach: workplaces with high levels of trust, like those on the Great Place to Work lists, show higher satisfaction, retention, and innovation. People thrive where trust encourages risk-taking and reduces fear. Patricia: It’s like, letting the team use bold colors instead of just coloring inside the lines. So trust boosts creativity and collaboration, but what happens when leaders hoard it? When they don’t trust others? Roger: That's when we see things stagnate. Leaders who don't trust create an environment of micromanagement, disengagement, and fear, which stifles creativity. Employees become reserved, turnover increases, and organizations lose their competitive edge. Leadership without trust erodes from within because employees feel undervalued and constrained. Patricia: That makes sense. One controlling manager can kill an entire team’s motivation. And when that happens across multiple levels of leadership, you end up with a dysfunctional culture. Roger: Exactly, and compare that to leaders who foster trust. It has a ripple effect, not just internally but externally as well. Leaders who trust inspire customers, stakeholders, and communities. Historical examples show how extending trust can redefine relationships. One of my favorites is Alexander the Great trusting his physician amidst allegations of betrayal. By drinking the prescribed remedy publicly, despite enemies casting doubt on the doctor’s intentions, Alexander demonstrated unwavering faith. That trust didn’t just deepen their personal bond; it rallied his followers’ confidence in his judgment. Patricia: That was a bold move! And it reinforces the idea that trust is a two-way street: extend it wisely, and it builds loyalty and respect. So whether it’s Alexander's leadership or Walton’s risk-taking, trust creates a sort of virtuous cycle. Roger: Exactly. Leaders amplify trust by modeling it and fostering it in others. Whether it’s in society or an organization, trust doesn’t just stabilize things; it transforms them. It’s the ultimate catalyst for resilience, innovation, and growth. Patricia: So it’s not just a soft skill; it’s the backbone of leadership and the glue that holds society together. Suddenly, trust seems like the nerve center behind every great decision. Roger: That’s precisely Covey's point. Trust is the bridge between exceptional leadership and societal harmony. It’s the one thing that touches everything.

Roger: Okay, Patricia, let's wrap things up. Today, we really dug deep into trust, didn't we? We started with the “Four Cores of Credibility”, which are fundamental to building trust in ourselves, then we moved through the “Five Waves”, showing how it impacts our relationships, organizations, and even society as a whole. And finally finished with how trust can transform leadership. Patricia: Right. We really got into how trust is more than just being a good person. It’s actually functional, scalable, and something you can measure. We saw how it speeds things up and cuts costs in companies, gives leaders the power to “really” innovate, and even underpins a stable society. Roger: Exactly! Covey reminds us that trust isn't just some warm and fuzzy feeling; it's an economic necessity, a key part of any culture, and something that can multiply your effectiveness as a leader. It all starts with being someone of integrity and then spreads out to make real changes in teams, companies, and entire communities. Patricia: So, what's the big message here? Pretty simple – if you want to succeed, start with trust. You know, whether it's just keeping your word on the little things, being open and honest, or setting up systems that give people more freedom instead of controlling them, investing in trust always pays off. Roger: Exactly. I have a challenge for our listeners: Pick one thing you can do this week to build trust. Maybe it's being more direct in your communication, or showing more loyalty to your team. Whatever it is, pay attention to how that one act affects your relationships, your team, or your workplace. Patricia: Because like Covey says, trust “really” is “the one thing that changes everything.” So, why not start changing things today? Roger: Couldn’t agree more, Patricia. So, thanks for joining us as we explored The Speed of Trust. Until next time, keep building trust—and see just how far it can take you. Patricia: See you next time, and… well, trust us, it'll be worth your while!