Roger: Hey everyone, and welcome back to the podcast! Patricia, I've got a question for you. How often do you find yourself jumping in to fix someone else's problem, thinking you’re being helpful, only to realize later you might have actually made things worse? Patricia: Uh, way too often, Roger. Way too often. Though isn't that what we're told leaders should do? Solve the problems, keep the trains running, be the hero? Roger: Exactly! But Michael Bungay Stanier's book, The Coaching Habit, completely flips that script. Instead of always providing the answers, he argues that truly effective leaders build their teams' independence. And he gives us a really smart framework – just seven key questions – to help us do it. It's all about curiosity, connecting with people, and fostering genuine growth within teams. Patricia: Seven questions? Seriously? That sounds a little… simplistic for something that’s supposed to revolutionize leadership. Roger: I hear your skepticism, but that’s the beauty of it! It's not about piling more onto your already overflowing to-do list. It's about fundamentally changing how you lead. It’s about making coaching a natural, daily habit. Think powerful, yet super straightforward questions that spark self-discovery in others. Patricia: Okay, you've piqued my interest. So, if this book is about shaking up how leaders interact with their teams, what’s our game plan for today? Roger: We're going to break it down into three core pillars. First, we’ll dive into why coaching actually matters and how it transforms leadership from being the ultimate problem-solver to being a guide. Then, we'll unpack the seven actionable questions that are at the heart of the book – they’re incredibly practical and surprisingly insightful. And lastly, we’ll talk about how to weave these coaching habits into your day-to-day work so they stick and drive lasting change. Patricia: A roadmap, huh? The why, the how, and the “how to make it stick.” Solid. I have a feeling I'm going to be pushing back a bit along the way though. Roger: Wouldn’t have it any other way! So, let's jump right in!

Roger: So, Patricia, let's dive right in: why does coaching “really” matter, especially for leaders today? Basically, it's about switching gears from telling people what to do – constantly giving instructions or solving problems for them – to asking questions and helping them figure things out themselves. It's a whole different way of relating to your team. Patricia: Okay, I get that in theory, but what about when things are hitting the fan? Shouldn't a leader jump in and fix things? I mean, isn't that part of the job description? Roger: Good point! It's not about never stepping in, but knowing when stepping in actually helps versus just creating a crutch. You know, the old-school leader as chief problem-solver might work for a quick fix, but it's not the best long-term. Eventually, people rely on you too much. That burns you out and stops them from growing and coming up with new ideas. Patricia: Right, so how does asking questions fix all this? Isn't it just a roundabout way of making people do all the work themselves? Roger: Well, maybe it seems like that at first. But think about what happens in the brain. When someone comes up with their own solution, it lights up the parts related to creativity and feeling motivated. It's not just about solving the problem; it becomes about taking ownership and “really” learning something. Michael Bungay Stanier actually has a great quote; "Stay curious longer, and rush to action slower." And curiosity, as you know, is sparked by asking questions. Patricia: So you're saying asking questions is the "secret sauce" to leadership? Roger: kinda! But it’s more than just a trick—it’s a real tool. Instead of telling someone "Do this for the project," you start with "What's on your mind?" That does two great things. First, it lets them bring up the issue they think is important. And second, it makes you more of a partner and less of a "fixer". Patricia: Okay, I follow the logic. But does this actually work in the real world? Got any examples where coaching really made a difference? Roger: Absolutely. There was this BlessingWhite study that found that while a large portion of managers—73%—had coaching training, less than 25% saw real improvements in their team's output. The reason? Most of them went back to their old habits – just giving advice instead of truly coaching. Patricia: Wait, so you’re saying most coaching programs are a waste of time? Roger: Well, not if they're just stuck in theory! That's kinda Stanier's point, actually. Coaching that's all jargon or too rigid misses the mark. What matters is having habits of really being curious often. Things like asking good, open-ended questions like, "And what else?" to avoid surface-level answers and get to the real issue. Patricia: "And what else?" That's it? Honestly, that sounds like something you'd say when you're bored at a dinner party. Roger: It might sound simple, but it’s unexpectedly effective. Picture this: Someone on your team comes to you saying, "This project is just too much". If you jump in with advice—"Try breaking it down into smaller chunks, maybe?"—you might miss the bigger picture. But if instead you ask, "And what else?" they might say, "I don't feel good delegating because I am worried my team won't be able to deliver." Now that's something deeper—trust issues within the team. That's the conversation you need to have. Patricia: Okay, I see how "And what else?" can help uncover the issues. But what if someone just shuts down? Not everyone's going to open up just 'cause you ask a couple of questions. Roger: True. Not every conversation will be a breakthrough, but just starting with those questions plants a seed. Plus, it adds up over time. When people see that you genuinely want to understand, they start to trust you more. And as you know, trust is key to good coaching. Patricia: Trust, huh? It's a buzzword we hear all the time. What does coaching specifically do to build it? Roger: It comes down to feeling connected and having independence. Daniel Goleman's research on leadership styles shows that coaching is one of the best ways to get both. When leaders ask questions instead of telling people what to do, it sends a message: "I trust you to figure this out yourself." That's empowering. It also shows humility - the leader doesn't think they have all the right answers, which creates comfort for collaboration. Patricia: Right, so it's less about you being right and more about helping the other person find their way. But how do you balance that with deadlines? I'm thinking this takes time, and time is money. Roger: Definitely a challenge. At first, coaching might feel like it takes more time than if you just gave someone the answer. But here's the cool thing: the more you coach, the better and more independent your team becomes. That means fewer emergencies end up on your desk in the long run. Remember the story about the manager nearing total burnout? By just asking "How can I help?" this manager reassigned work back to the team. Over time, they reduced their own workload and developed a much more resilient and resourceful group. Patricia: Ok, yeah, that's pretty convincing. Sort of like investing now so you're not always putting out fires later. Roger: Exactly. Coaching pays off, both in time saved and in building stronger teams. It's a long-term strategy, but the results are really powerful—more trust, more freedom, and a workforce that's more engaged and effective overall.

Roger: Okay, so understanding why coaching is important naturally leads us to explore how to actually “do” it in our daily interactions. And that's where The Seven Essential Questions come in, right? They're a practical toolkit that helps connect theory and practice. The idea is to make coaching something you can weave into your everyday work, without making things too complicated. Patricia: A toolkit of questions, huh? That sounds pretty manageable, I guess. So, these are the magic sauce to making this coaching habit stick? What’s the actual plan? Roger: Essentially, yes! Each of the seven questions has a specific role in making conversations deeper and more productive. They're designed to help leaders guide people instead of just telling them what to do. They prompt reflection, build ownership, and get to the core of issues without adding extra work to our plates. Let's dive into the first question, the Kickstart Question: "What's on your mind?" Patricia: That’s it? "What's on your mind?" Seriously? It doesn’t exactly sound like a revolutionary approach. Roger: Well, it might not sound fancy, but it's super effective at cutting through the noise, believe me. Think about how many conversations start with just small talk or vague check-ins. This question skips all of that. It gets straight to the point by asking what the other person needs to share. It's like saying, "Hey, I'm here, I'm listening, and whatever's most important to you will be my focus here now." Patricia: Okay, but let’s say someone comes to you absolutely stressed and just starts unloading their to-do list. Doesn’t this question just invite a flood of problems without giving any direction? Roger: It sure might feel that way, but that's actually part of the magic. By letting them speak, you're actually giving them the space to articulate their thoughts. Take the story of Susan and Claire in the book. When Claire, one of Susan's team members, came in feeling super overwhelmed, Susan asked, “What’s on your mind?” Claire started talking about deadlines, miscommunications, and this huge task list. But, as they talked, Susan followed up with another question—"What's the real challenge here for you?"—and she realized Claire's main issue wasn't actually time management. It was her discomfort with resetting boundaries and expectations with her team so she could manage her time and tasks better. Patricia: Huh, so this question is more like opening the door to a much bigger conversation, not the end goal. Now what makes this click is that Susan didn’t just jump in and give her a productivity hack. Roger: Exactly! By just asking that question, Susan shifted the dynamic, right? Instead of feeling like she needed to fix everything, she gave Claire the chance to identify her real challenge, which was way deeper than just being busy. That's how coaching can transform routine conversations into opportunities for personal growth. Patricia: Interesting. So, if the Kickstart Question gets the ball rolling, what's next? Where do you go after asking, "What's on your mind?" Roger: You follow it up with the AWE Question: "And what else?" Patricia: I still can’t get over how simple most of these are. Are you telling me that repeating "And what else?" over and over actually changes things? Roger: Yes, it does! Most of us don't get to the real heart of an issue with our first response. So, think of "And what else?" as a way to peel back the layers. People often need a little nudge to explore beyond their initial thoughts. Michael Bungay Stanier actually suggests asking this question three to five times during a conversation—it’s a structured way to explore deeper insights without overwhelming someone. Patricia: Okay, but isn’t there a risk of this getting repetitive, though? Like, at what point does "And what else?" start to sound annoying? Roger: Oh it's all about how you deliver it and your intention. You're not just asking it like a robot—you adjust based on how the conversation is flowing. So, let’s go back to that manager dealing with project delays. When they ask "And what else?", the first answer might point to a lack of resources. A second response might uncover interpersonal issues that are slowing things down. And by the third time, they might discover a hidden risk they hadn't initially shared. The beauty of this question isn’t just the answers—it’s the fact that you’re guiding them through their own thought process, helping them uncover insights they might have missed otherwise. Patricia: I can see how this works as a thought exercise, but what if someone just says, "That's it," early on? Isn’t that a dead end then? Roger: Not at all. If they say, "That's all," it signals completion—it means they’ve shared what they feel is most relevant at that moment. And that is valuable, too! The point isn't to badger them into finding more problems; it's to just give them space to fully explore their own thoughts. Sometimes, clarity comes from confirming there’s nothing else bubbling under the surface. Patricia: Alright, I give "And what else?" credit then. It's kind of like an X-ray for your conversations—it reveals more than what you see at first glance. But what if you’re dealing with someone who’s just venting and jumping between like twenty different issues? How do you rein that in? Roger: That’s when the Focus Question comes into play: "What's the real challenge here for you?" Patricia: Yeah, now this one I like. It sounds like it forces people to cut through the noise and actually get to the heart of the problem. Roger: Exactly, that's the point. This question is all about sharpening the conversation you're having. Let's say someone comes to you and starts venting about delays, confusing messages, or that one coworker who's driving them crazy—you know, the whole shebang! Now, if you try to solve every little issue they bring up, you're going to end up making any real progress for that person. But, by asking, "What's the real challenge here for you?", you help them untangle what's at the core of their frustration. Patricia: So this isn’t just about solving problems. It’s about defining them first before actually attempting to solve them. Do you have a real-world example for this one? Roger: Sure. Bungay Stanier talks about Tom, who was a marketing manager struggling with approvals on a project. As his manager listened, she avoided the trap of tackling every single little issue he raised. Instead, she asked, "What's the real challenge here for you?" That is when the real issue emerged—Tom wasn’t just stressed about project delays. He was actually avoiding a difficult conversation with a coworker because he was afraid of conflict. So this made the manager’s coaching way more effective. Instead of just trying to fix the logistics of the project, she focused on helping Tom work through his conflict-avoidance issues. Patricia: I like how this shifts the focus. You’re not just putting out fires—you’re helping them learn how to handle their own matches. Feels like you’d really have to ignore the urge to jump in with advice, though. Roger: Oh, definitely! It’s the hardest part for most leaders—it’s a real shift in mindset. But questions like these teach team members to think critically, prioritize, and actually own their challenges. Over time, it really becomes second nature for both the leader and the team. Patricia: Alright, so we’re three questions in—getting the conversation started, peeling back the layers, and narrowing down the core issue. What’s next?

Roger: So, with these coaching questions under our belt, the challenge now is turning them into actual habits, right? Making them stick. We’re talking about real behavioral changes here, not just for individual leaders, but for entire organizations. And to do that effectively, we need to look at the nuts and bolts of habit formation. Patricia: Right, habits. That elusive thing we're all trying to nail down. So, how do we get these questions to become second nature for leaders—part of their leadership DNA, so to speak? Roger: Well, let’s talk about building a "habit loop," as Bungay Stanier puts it. The key is identifying triggers – those moments in your day that naturally lend themselves to a coaching opportunity. For example, the start of a meeting could be a perfect trigger to ask the Focus Question: "What's the real challenge here for you?" Patricia: Okay, triggers sound easy enough to find on paper. But aren’t we “really” talking about breaking old habits first? You know, like the manager who's used to kicking off every meeting with a data dump instead of actually listening. Roger: Precisely. A crucial part of the New Habit Formula is just that: recognizing the old behavior triggered by a situation. Like that urge to jump in with advice, for instance. Then, consciously replace it with a new coaching action – you’re rewiring your response. Say a team member asks for your opinion. Instead of immediately handing them the solution, you pause and ask, "How can I help you think this through?" Small shift, big impact. Patricia: So, it's like swapping out that unhealthy snack with something better for you. Sounds good in theory, but how do you make it last beyond the first couple of weeks? Roger: Repetition is key. Behavioral science tells us that around 45% of our daily actions are habitual – things we do almost without thinking. Every time you repeat that new coaching behavior, you're strengthening the neural pathways, making it easier next time. Remember the manager from our case study who always started by asking, "What's the real challenge?" It became automatic for them, it became expected from the team. Patricia: Okay, the neuroscience makes sense. Rewiring through repetition. But what about those leaders who feel like they need to change everything at once? Wouldn’t that just lead to overwhelm and, eventually, giving up? Roger: That's where micro-habits come in. Think of them as small, manageable steps towards a larger goal. So, instead of trying to overhaul your entire management style, you start by committing to asking just one coaching question, once a day. Less intimidating, and the effects compound over time. Patricia: Micro-habits. Dipping your toes in before jumping into the deep end, I like it. Okay, what about format—does this only work face-to-face, or can you coach people through other channels like email or Slack? Roger: Absolutely, coaching habits should be adapted to fit all communication channels. Take email, for instance: instead of responding with something directive, like, "Here's what you should do," try the Kickstart Question: "What's on your mind about this project?" For virtual meetings, ditch the rushed agenda and ask the Lazy Question: "How can I help?" It's about weaving these habits into your natural workflow, regardless of how you're communicating. Patricia: Flexible toolset. Got it. Okay, now how do you scale this to the organizational level? It's one thing for an individual manager to ask better questions, but how do you spark a culture-wide change? Roger: Bingo. Building a coaching culture isn't just about individual habits – it’s about establishing systems and shared processes that reinforce those behaviors at every level. When leaders consistently model curiosity, trust, and autonomy, it creates a ripple effect. Teams start to mirror those behaviors and, over time, it becomes part of the organization's DNA. Patricia: Give me a concrete example. How does this actually translate from one manager to something that affects the whole company? Roger: Sure. I think of a healthcare organization struggling with employee burnout and operational inefficiencies. The leadership team started using and asking the Strategic Question, "If we say yes to this, what are we saying no to?" as part of their decision-making process. By consistently asking this, especially when facing high-pressure situations, they began to see a shift in resource allocation and prioritization. The result? Reduced employee fatigue, improved efficiency, and, ultimately, a culture of more intentionality. Patricia: That’s powerful. It's not just about firefighting; it's about creating an environment where everyone makes smarter decisions proactively. So, what's the real trick to making this kind of change stick company-wide? Roger: Well, leaders need to prioritize coaching. It needs to be an integral part of the team’s workflow, not an afterthought. And then, think about the importance of feedback loops. Just as we use coaching questions to prompt reflection, leaders should regularly ask, "What was most useful to you?" after their coaching interactions. This reinforces the habit and ensures the coaching is actually having an impact. Patricia: And I’m guessing having a shared language helps too? So people are—not just on the same page—but actually speaking the same dialect when it comes to coaching. Roger: Exactly. When everyone knows the Seven Essential Questions and understands their purpose, it creates a consistent environment. Teams know what to expect, and leaders set a tone of openness and curiosity. You're essentially creating a playbook for engagement and growth that everyone can use. Patricia: Okay, I think I'm getting the bigger picture here. Coaching isn't just about asking smart questions or even changing individual behavior. It's about building habits that ripple outward, transforming teams and, ultimately, the whole organization. It’s a long-term play, but sounds like it's worth it. Roger: Definitely. When coaching becomes ingrained—when it's not just something you do occasionally—it changes everything. Leaders empower, teams become more resilient, and organizations become more adaptable. All you have to do is start small – introduce those questions, weave them into your everyday conversations, and watch the impact unfold.

Roger: So, to sum it up, we've explored how effective coaching "really" changes leadership, moving it away from just giving orders to actually encouraging curiosity and self-discovery. By using those Seven Essential Questions, leaders can turn everyday chats into opportunities for growth, not just for their teams, but for themselves too. Patricia: And the thing is, it's not just about knowing the right questions, but "really" making it a habit, right? Day in, day out. It's about setting up those intentional reminders, practicing consistently, and realizing that even small changes can have huge effects. Roger: Exactly! The big takeaway here is that coaching is a marathon, not a sprint, but with rewards that "really" last. Start with just one simple question – something like, "What's on your mind?" – and just weave it into your daily routine. It's not about trying to become a completely different leader overnight, but about building genuine connections, empowering the people around you, and creating an environment where everyone can learn and grow. Patricia: Right, and the best part is, you don't need to have all the answers yourself. You just need to be curious, willing to listen, and brave enough to ask the questions. Seems simple, but it's actually pretty powerful. Roger: So, Patricia, what do you think is the "real" challenge here? How will you actually take this framework and make it a part of your own leadership approach? Something to think about as we go forward this week.