Alex: Hey everyone, welcome to the show! So, let's jump right in with a question: how well do you “really” know yourself? And I'm not talking about knowing your go-to latte or your usual weekend plans. I mean, do you understand your core values? Your ingrained habits? And, crucially, the effect you have on the people around you? Michelle: Wow, Alex, straight to the existential stuff, huh? That's the kind of question that keeps you up at night. But seriously, whether you're heading up a team, hammering out a deal, or just navigating a family gathering, knowing who you are is pretty crucial, right? Alex: Absolutely. And that's exactly what we're digging into in this episode. We're diving into Self-Awareness from the HBR Emotional Intelligence Series. It makes the case that self-awareness isn't just a "nice-to-have"; it's really the bedrock of emotional intelligence. The book looks at internal self-awareness—knowing yourself—and external self-awareness—understanding how others perceive you. Michelle: So it's about realizing that you're not always the hero of your own movie, and sometimes, you're accidentally the bad guy? Alex: Pretty much! But the good news is, with the right approach, you can definitely avoid being the villain. The book doesn't just give you the theory; it offers solid research-backed strategies—things like actively seeking feedback, practicing reflection, and even using some modern tech like analytics to help us on this journey. Michelle: Okay, I'm already liking this—a blend of science, tech, and a healthy dose of introspection. So, what exactly are we unpacking today? Alex: We're tackling three key areas. First, we'll explore why self-awareness is the cornerstone of emotional intelligence, the driver behind better decision-making and stronger relationships. Second, we'll dive into practical techniques for developing self-awareness—things like feedback, reflection, and spotting your blind spots. And finally, we'll look at how modern tools and some timeless wisdom—you know, drawing from history and even literature—can really help you deepen your self-awareness. Michelle: So, this episode is like putting together a self-awareness toolkit, complete with the latest gadgets and maybe a bit of Shakespeare thrown in for good measure. Alex: Exactly! Let's get into why self-awareness is so powerful and how you can begin using it.

Alex: To dive right in, let's talk about self-awareness. It's deeper than just looking inward or trying to figure out why true crime is your go-to genre. It's really about consciously understanding your emotions, your core values, and your behaviors—and, crucially, how those things impact your decisions and relationships with others. Daniel Goleman actually calls it the foundation of emotional intelligence, which is a big statement, considering how vital EI is for leadership and, well, life in general. Michelle: Okay, that makes sense, but it also sounds… intense, right? Are we talking about some sort of daily emotional audit here? Like, "Today, I was mildly irritated at the coffee shop because someone ordered a complicated drink ahead of me, which clearly reflects my deep-seated impatience…" Is that the level of analysis we're aiming for? Alex: Well, not that granular on a daily basis, no. It's more about developing a continuous awareness of how your emotions and values influence what you do. And Goleman directly links this self-awareness to success, especially in leadership roles. A leader who truly understands their strengths, their weaknesses, and the reasoning behind their decisions is naturally more resilient, more trustworthy, and has a greater impact. Michelle: Right. So, pretending to be a confident leader isn't enough—you actually have to be self-aware. That's a tough break for all those people who rely on bravado and a slick presentation, huh? Alex: Precisely. And here’s the thing: self-awareness isn’t a monolith. It has these two key dimensions—internal and external. Let's start with internal. That's about knowing yourself from the inside out. It's about understanding your own emotions, patterns, and deeply held values. Think of it as your internal compass. For instance, if you know that tight deadlines tend to make you feel anxious, you can proactively plan ahead to mitigate that overwhelm before it spirals. Michelle: Or, you know, just embrace the chaos and “exist” in a perpetual state of low-grade panic like the rest of us. That's always an option. Alex: Well, ideally, you'd develop some coping strategies. The point is, internal self-awareness lets you anticipate your reactions and, therefore, make much more informed decisions. It’s about making a clear connection between your actions and your core values and goals. Michelle: Okay, I get it. That's the “inner you” part. But then we have external self-awareness, which I'm guessing is less about what you think and more about how the rest of the world sees you? Alex: Exactly. External self-awareness is about understanding how others perceive you. And here's the interesting bit: there's often a gap between how we see ourselves and how others actually see us. For example, imagine a manager who believes they're being efficient by sending quick, curt emails, but their team interprets that tone as harsh or critical. Without external self-awareness, that person could inadvertently erode trust within their team. Michelle: Ouch. Efficiency with a side of accidental demotivation. So, how do you even identify that gap? I mean, it's not like people are lining up to say, "Hey, just FYI, you're not great at this..." Alex: That’s where seeking feedback becomes critical. Asking trusted colleagues, "How do you experience me?" can be incredibly insightful. And the real magic happens when you balance both internal and external awareness. When you're clear about your intentions internally, you become more open to understanding how those intentions are received externally. It's a kind of continuous loop: internal awareness provides a solid foundation, while external awareness encourages you to actively grow and adapt. Michelle: A balance, you say? So, I not only have to cultivate my inner wisdom but also manage how everyone else perceives my… unique leadership style? Alex: It's really not as intimidating as it might sound. And remember, it's not static—it’s something you develop over time. The more you reflect on things, the more you understand the connections between what's happening inside you and how you're impacting the world around you. Leaders who embrace this balance—knowing themselves and how they’re perceived—tend to be more successful. Michelle: That makes sense. I mean, the example you gave earlier about the executive who thought he was being analytical but came across as negative—classic case of an external blind spot, right? But here's a question. Reflection sounds amazing in theory, but how does it actually work in practice? Are we talking about long periods of contemplative staring out of windows, or…? Alex: Not exactly. Reflection can actually be quite structured, and journaling is an excellent tool for this. Writing down your thoughts and emotions allows you to identify patterns over time—what triggers you, what situations you thrive in, and how you're evolving as a person. Take a leader who has a difficult conversation with an employee, for instance. Reflecting on that in a journal afterwards might reveal whether their response was driven by logic or emotion, whether it aligned with their core values, and what they could do differently in the future. Michelle: So, writing things down. I can probably manage that. But what about the feedback element for those of us who are less naturally introspective? Actively soliciting constructive criticism sounds terrifying—and I say this as someone who avoids reading customer reviews of restaurants I've chosen at all costs. Alex: I completely get it—it feels vulnerable. But that’s where being specific comes in. Instead of a broad "How am I doing?" try asking focused questions like, "Is there anything I could change about how I run meetings to make them more effective?" Specific questions usually lead to more useful, actionable insights. And the key is to be open to what you hear—no defensiveness. Michelle: So, instead of asking, "What do you think of me?" it's more like, "What small adjustments would make me better?" That sounds like a less painful way to address those pesky blind spots. Got it. Alex: Exactly. And here's what many leaders often overlook: you’re not supposed to have all the answers. Simply asking for feedback shows that you value other people's perspectives, which, in turn, can foster trust and collaboration. Michelle: And I'm guessing there's also some mental agility involved—like recognizing and naming emotions instead of immediately reacting to them, right? Alex: Absolutely. Recognizing your emotional patterns is a true game-changer. For example, let’s say a leader feels frustration building in a tense meeting. Instead of lashing out, they pause and think, "I'm feeling frustrated because I don't think the team is all on the same page." Just labeling the emotion creates space to respond differently—instead of reacting impulsively. Michelle: So, it’s like introducing your emotions by name as they enter the room. That actually sounds surprisingly… civilized. Alex: Exactly.

Alex: So, now that we've laid the groundwork, let's dive into how we can actually “build” self-awareness. We're moving into the practical side of things with "Developing Self-Awareness Through Feedback and Reflection." This is all about how combining these two powerful tools can help us bridge that gap between how we “think” we are and how others “actually” see us, which, let's face it, can be pretty wide. Michelle: Okay, "know thyself" through… performance reviews? Seriously, feedback and reflection sound like something you do on a yoga mat, not at your desk. Can this actually work in the real world where the stakes are high? Alex: Absolutely. Feedback and reflection aren't just theoretical concepts; they're practical tools for cutting through our blind spots and seeing things clearly. Feedback gives us an outside perspective, showing us things we might miss because of our own biases – like the "transparency illusion," where we just assume everyone understands us. And Reflection, on the other hand, lets us take those external perspectives and figure out “why” we do the things we do. It's a powerful combination. Michelle: Ah, yes, the "transparency illusion." What exactly “is” that? Alex: It's that feeling that our inner thoughts and feelings are totally obvious to everyone else, even when they're not. Michelle: Right, so, we think we're sending clear signals, but everyone else is getting… static. I get the problem. Can you give me a real-world example? Alex: Think about an executive who honestly believed they were being analytical and solution-oriented, but their team saw them as negative and difficult. Why? Because their facial expressions while thinking—maybe a frown—or focusing on flaws first gave the impression that they were cold or overly critical. Michelle: Ouch. Imagine thinking you're Mr. or Ms. Logic and everyone else sees a thundercloud. So, what did they do to turn things around? Alex: They actively sought feedback. They asked their team how their communication was “actually” landing, listened carefully, and made adjustments. Simple things, like clarifying their intent—"Hey, I'm pointing this out to improve X"—and balancing critical feedback with some positive comments. Over time, their reputation changed, and the team dynamic improved. Michelle: That's a bold move—asking for feedback from the very people who think you're difficult. How would you even start that conversation without having a total meltdown? Alex: You need to structure it. A "presence audit" can work well. You pick a few trusted colleagues and ask them pointed questions like, "What's one thing I could do differently to be more effective?" or "How do I come across in meetings?" Showing that you're willing to improve can actually build trust. Michelle: That is sensible. Although, definitely avoid saying, "Tell me everything you hate about me." Alex: Yes, definitely counterproductive! It's all about “how” you ask. Frame it as a chance to grow, not as an invitation to criticize. Michelle: Okay, so feedback gives us the "what." Reflection is where we ask "why," right? What does that process really “look” like? Alex: Exactly. Reflection is about understanding the reasons behind your experiences and emotions. For example, a leader who felt anxious before every team meeting. Through reflection, they realized the anxiety wasn't about the meeting itself, but about a deeper fear of being seen as an ineffective leader. Michelle: So, the meetings were the “symptom”, not the cause. What did they “do” with that information? Alex: They made reflection a regular habit, journaling after meetings and asking themselves questions like, "Did I communicate my goals clearly?" or "What went well, and what didn't?" They also changed their inner dialogue. Instead of blaming themselves—"Why am I so anxious?"—they asked, "How can I better prepare for this situation?" That small shift turned anxiety into a prompt for action. Michelle: Makes sense. Journaling feels easier when you're looking for solutions instead of just wallowing. Alex: Exactly. Reflection turns vague feelings into concrete insights. If you always get defensive when a peer criticizes you, reflection might show you that it taps into a deep fear of failure. That awareness could change how you respond – maybe you prepare yourself emotionally “before” difficult conversations. Michelle: I see how this all weaves together. Feedback tells you, "You seem tense in meetings," and reflection helps you realize, "Oh, it's because I worry the team doesn't trust my ideas." Alex: Exactly. They amplify each other. Feedback provides external insight; reflection helps you internalize it, connecting your actions and emotions to your core values. Michelle: Let's talk about combining them. What happens when you get feedback, make a change, and “then” reflect on it? Alex: That's closing the loop, and it's powerful. Say someone gets feedback they need to be more assertive. They try it in a low-stakes situation, and afterwards, they reflect: "Did that feel authentic?" or "Did it get me the results I wanted?" By constantly going back and forth between feedback and reflection, you create a cycle of continuous improvement. Michelle: It's like running little experiments on yourself, always tweaking the formula. Do people really “do” this? Alex: Absolutely, and it's very effective. Madeleine Albright, for example, famously said her resilience came from lessons she learned from her father’s hardships. On a practical level, leaders today do this by testing feedback in a controlled way—adjusting their communication in one-on-ones, or tweaking their leadership style over time—then reflecting on what works. Michelle: Let me see if I have this. Feedback points out your blind spots. Reflection helps you understand “why” they're there. Together, they turn awkward moments into opportunities for growth. Alex: Precisely. When you do it regularly, it's transformative, helping you close that gap between perception and reality. And for leaders, it fosters authenticity, builds trust, and ultimately gets better results for their teams. Michelle: Okay, Alex, I'm cautiously optimistic. But what about people who “hate” feedback? No one wants to hear they messed up. Or worse, learn something about themselves they'd rather not acknowledge. Alex: That's completely understandable. The key is to shift from defensiveness to curiosity. Feedback isn't a judgment; it's data. And reflection isn't about dwelling on mistakes—it's about learning from them. Michelle: So, approach it like a data analyst, not a guilt sponge. Got it.

Alex: So, building on those essential practices, we can “really” supercharge our self-awareness with some modern tools. And by looking at lessons from history, like those of great leaders, and even dipping into Shakespeare, we create a kind of 3D self-awareness that blends tech with timeless wisdom. It’s about showing how universal self-awareness truly is. Michelle: Okay, I get it – tech, history, Shakespeare, all in one self-awareness smoothie. Let's dive into these modern tools. Auto-analytics, huh? Sounds like my fitness tracker passive-aggressively judging me for choosing pizza over the gym. Alex: It's a little more sophisticated than that. Auto-analytics uses tech – like trackers and nudgers – to give you data on your behavior, emotions, thought patterns, all that. It's like holding up a mirror to your habits. Michelle: Alright, so less "1984," more "personal growth assistant." Trackers versus nudgers – what's the difference there? Alex: Trackers are all about logging data. Think wearables that measure sleep, steps, heart rate, that kind of thing. Like, tracking your sleep might show you that your productivity tanks after late nights. That can prompt you to make sleep a priority, especially before important events. Michelle: Got it – trackers tell you what is, nudgers tell you what should be, right? Alex: Exactly. Nudgers use the data from the trackers to suggest adjustments in real-time. So, if your watch buzzes after you've been sitting for too long, reminding you to stretch, that's a nudger. They are like those little interventions that encourage better choices in the moment. Michelle: Okay, that makes sense. Can you give me a real-world example of auto-analytics that isn't just hitting some arbitrary step goal? Alex: Sacha Chua, for instance, tracked her sleep and realized that waking up earlier gave her uninterrupted focus time, which boosted her productivity immensely. Based on that data, she tweaked her routine and saw a huge shift in her workday. Michelle: A tracking app basically told her, "Hey, you're a morning person," and boom, life upgrade? Alex: Exactly. Auto-analytics bridges the gap between knowing and doing, turning raw data into actionable insights. It's not just monitoring; it's using that information to optimize your habits for better results. Michelle: Okay, but here's the thing—doesn't all this create a dependency? What if you leave the house without your tracker one day? Do you suddenly forget how to regulate yourself? Alex: Good point. The goal isn't to become completely reliant on the technology. Think of them more like training wheels. Over time, you internalize those patterns and get better at self-monitoring, even without the tech. Michelle: Got it. So, auto-analytics shines a light on our blind spots, and then it's up to us to adjust. That makes sense. Let's shift gears for a second. What's the deal with historical leaders and connecting it to self-awareness? How does that fit in? Alex: Historical leaders often have these transformative moments that “really” define them. Bernie Swain, in his interviews with people like Madeleine Albright and Robert Reich, talks about how personal challenges or key relationships can dramatically change someone's path. Michelle: Right, those "aha" moments when something clicks, and everything changes. Can you give me an example from the book? Alex: Robert Reich stands out. As a kid, he was bullied because of his size, which made him very aware of his vulnerability. That experience sharpened his sense of injustice and then fueled his drive to fight inequality. But a defining moment was when his childhood protector, Mickey Schwerner, was murdered during the civil rights movement. That tragedy ignited his lifelong commitment to justice, leading him to public service. Michelle: Wow. So, it's not just about dealing with hardship, it's about channeling that into purpose. Alex: Exactly. These defining moments force people to reflect deeply, helping them reconcile their struggles with their values. It helped Reich translate that experience to make a difference. Michelle: Okay, I see it now. Auto-analytics gives you data to fix things in the present, while history shows us how important experiences shape who we become in the long run. Alex: Exactly. And it's not just history; literature plays a massive role, too. Take Shakespeare; his plays are full of characters grappling with self-awareness. Like Hamlet! Michelle: Ah, Mr. "To be or not to be." What's Hamlet got to do with this? Alex: Hamlet is a masterclass in what happens when you overthink things. His soliloquies, like "To be or not to be," “really” lay bare his inner turmoil— his doubts, his despair, his obsession with what's right and wrong. Then what happens? He overthinks everything and delays taking action, which leads to his downfall. Michelle: So, he's the poster child for being too much in your own head. Alex: Totally. He's a caution on too much introspection without balance. Now, compare that to Prince Hal from Henry IV. He starts out as this wild prince, but he changes completely when he decides to step up and become king. He says, “Presume not that I am the thing I was," and he sheds his old identity to embrace responsibility. Michelle: So, Hal is less Hamlet, more self-awareness in action. He recognizes who he was but actively works to become someone different. Alex: Precisely. Hal shows us the power of adaptability, of letting go of old, unproductive identities to grow into new ones. It's a great lesson for people in times of transition or when facing new challenges. Michelle: Okay, Alex, let me make sure I've got this. Trackers and nudgers help us with daily habits, historical leaders show us how tough experiences can shape our purpose, and Shakespeare gives us metaphors for getting unstuck and growing. Alex: You got it! By using these tools and looking at things from these different angles, we can build a more complete and actionable self-awareness in every part of our lives.

Alex: Okay, Michelle, time to bring this home. Today we really dove deep into self-awareness, you know, as that crucial base for emotional intelligence. We talked about its two powerful sides – understanding yourself from the inside, and then, just as important, how others see you. We looked at feedback and reflection, practical tools for closing those gaps in perception. We even touched on how auto-analytics can give you some pretty surprising insights, and pulled some wisdom from historical figures and even Shakespeare. Michelle: Right, so if there's one thing people remember from all this, it's that self-awareness isn't just navel-gazing; it's about actually “doing” something. Whether it's putting feedback to the test, thinking about patterns in your behavior, or even using some of these modern tools, it's all about turning insights into real growth. So, Alex, what's the action item for the week? Alex: Super straightforward: start small. Ask someone you trust for some feedback – focus on one specific area where you’re looking to improve. Or, take a moment to reflect on a recent situation where your actions didn't quite line up with what you were intending. Just start closing that space between how you see yourself and how others experience you. Michelle: And keep in mind folks, this isn’t about being perfect overnight. It’s about making steady progress. Think of feedback like it’s data, not a personal attack, and reflection as a way to learn and grow, not a reason to beat yourself up. Alex: Precisely. Self-awareness is a skill you develop. And as you build it, it changes not just how you lead, but how you handle pretty much everything in life. So, thanks for tuning in today, and until next time – keep growing! Michelle: And keep those inner Hamlets under control! Talk to you next time.