Michelle: Alright Mark, I have a controversial statement for you: A healthy dose of narcissism isn't just good for you, it's essential for a passionate, fulfilling life. Without it, you're likely to end up miserable. Mark: Hold on, you're telling me that the trait we associate with insufferable bosses and terrible exes is actually… good for us? Are you saying my self-obsessed cousin who posts 30 selfies a day is on the right track to enlightenment? Michelle: Not quite, but you're touching on the exact confusion that Dr. Craig Malkin tackles in his book, Rethinking Narcissism. And Malkin isn't just some pop-psych guru; he's a clinical psychologist and lecturer at Harvard Medical School. He wrote this because he saw that most books on the topic just tell you to run from narcissists, but he wanted to offer a more compassionate, practical way to actually understand and deal with them. Mark: Okay, a Harvard psychologist telling us to embrace our inner narcissist. I'm intrigued. When you say "narcissism," what's the first image that comes to your mind? For me, it's the Greek myth. Michelle: Exactly. And that's where most of us start. We think of Narcissus, the beautiful young man who falls in love with his own reflection and wastes away. We see it as a cautionary tale about vanity. Mark: Right. Don't be so in love with yourself that you can't see anyone else. Michelle: But Malkin offers a brilliant re-reading of that myth. The tragedy of Narcissus wasn't that he loved himself too much. It was that he couldn't love at all. He rejected everyone, including the nymph Echo who adored him. When he saw his reflection, he didn't know it was himself. He fell for an illusion, a person he could never connect with. His problem wasn't self-love; it was a complete inability to form a real, loving connection with anyone, including his actual self. He was empty. Mark: Whoa. So the story isn't about too much self-love, it's about a lack of it? A lack of real connection? Michelle: Precisely. And that’s the jumping-off point for this whole new way of thinking. Narcissism isn't a disease you either have or you don't. It's a spectrum.

Mark: A spectrum. That feels more nuanced. What does that look like in practice? Michelle: Malkin lays it out as a scale from 0 to 10. Zero isn't humility; it's a complete lack of the drive to feel special, which is its own kind of unhealthy. Ten is where you find the destructive, pathological narcissist we all picture. The sweet spot, the healthy zone, is right in the middle, around a 4 to 6. Mark: Okay, so what does a 10 on that scale actually look like? Give me a picture of that extreme. Michelle: Malkin shares a powerful personal story about his own mother that he calls the "Manolo Blahniks Epiphany." After his father died, he and his wife were helping his mother move into a much smaller apartment. She was miserable, lonely, and felt her life was shrinking. She complained constantly. Mark: That sounds incredibly difficult. Michelle: It was. And she started spending exorbitant amounts of money on decorations for this tiny place. One night, she disappears into her bedroom and comes out teetering on these four-inch Manolo Blahnik stilettos. She looks around the apartment with disdain and says, "There, I can relax now. At least my shoes are better than this place." Mark: Wow. That's... a statement. Michelle: It was a lightbulb moment for Malkin. He realized his mother wasn't just being vain. She was using the feeling of being special—of having better shoes, of being superior—as a crutch. It was an addiction to numb the pain of feeling scared, sad, and small. That's life at a 9 or 10 on the spectrum. It’s not about genuine self-worth; it’s a desperate, compulsive need to feel better than everyone else to avoid your own emotional black hole. Mark: That's a much more tragic picture than just an arrogant jerk. It's a coping mechanism. Okay, so that's a 10. What does a 0 look like? Is that just a really humble, selfless person? Michelle: You'd think so, but it's just as damaging. Malkin calls it "echoism," after the nymph Echo from the myth. These are people who are terrified of being a burden, of taking up space, of feeling special in any way. He tells the story of a woman named Sandy, whose boss planned a surprise party for her. Instead of being happy, she was horrified. Mark: She didn't want a party? Michelle: She was so uncomfortable with the attention that she actually managed to get her boss to cancel it. Her boyfriend, Joe, was frustrated because she could never accept a compliment or let him take care of her. He once told her, "You never let me do anything for you!" People at zero on the spectrum suppress their own needs so much they can't receive love or support, and they end up feeling depleted and invisible. Mark: So both extremes are a kind of prison. The 10 is trapped by their addiction to feeling special, and the 0 is trapped by their fear of it. The healthy person is in the middle, able to enjoy feeling special but not dependent on it. Michelle: Exactly. Healthy narcissism is the freedom to say, "I'm proud of this accomplishment," or to let someone throw you a party, without it defining your entire sense of self. It's the ability to visit Narcissus's pool, as Malkin says, but never feel the need to dive in.

Mark: This is fascinating, but the extreme cases like the Manolo Blahniks or the party-hater are pretty clear. What about the more subtle narcissists? The people we might date, or work with, where something just feels... off, but you can't put your finger on it. Michelle: That's where this gets really practical. Malkin gives us a field guide, a set of five key warning signs of unhealthy narcissism. They're behaviors people use to hide their vulnerability. Let's talk about three of the most common and insidious ones: Emotional Hot Potato, Stealth Control, and Placing People on Pedestals. Mark: Emotional Hot Potato? I'm already picturing it. What is that? Michelle: It's a brilliant term for a specific kind of projection. The narcissist has an uncomfortable feeling—insecurity, shame, fear—and instead of dealing with it, they "toss" it to you by making you feel it instead. Mark: How does that even work? Michelle: Malkin uses the case study of a young couple, Mark and Mia. Mark is applying to graduate school and feeling a little nervous. Mia, instead of being supportive, starts grilling him. "Are you sure you can get into those schools? They're really competitive." She's not actually concerned for him; she's insecure about her own future. By making Mark feel worried and insecure, she gets to feel superior and in control. She's passed the hot potato of her anxiety onto him. Mark: Whoa, that is so manipulative. It's like she's making him carry her emotional baggage so she doesn't have to. It’s subtle, but incredibly damaging. Okay, what's the next one? Stealth Control? Michelle: Stealth Control is how narcissists get what they want without ever having to ask for it. Asking for something directly would mean admitting a need or a vulnerability, which they can't stand. So they manipulate the situation to get their way. Mark: Give me an example from Mark and Mia. Michelle: Mark loved discovering new music, but whenever he suggested a concert, Mia would have a dozen reasons why they couldn't go: "It's too far," "It's too expensive." But when an artist she liked was in town, suddenly the price and distance didn't matter, and she'd just buy the tickets ahead of time. She never had to say, "I don't want to see your band, I want to see mine." She just engineered the outcome she wanted, leaving Mark's preferences in the dust. Mark: That's infuriating. It makes the other person feel like their desires are just... irrelevant. And the last one? Placing people on pedestals? That sounds like a good thing. Michelle: It feels good at first, but it's a huge red flag. Narcissists often idealize people at the beginning of a relationship. Mia called Mark "Mr. Right" almost immediately. She'd say, "We're so alike! We're twins!" This wasn't about genuine connection. It was about feeling special by association. If he's perfect, and he's with her, then she must be perfect too. Mark: Ah, I see the trap. What happens when the person on the pedestal turns out to be... human? Michelle: The fantasy shatters. The moment Mark expressed a different opinion or had a need that didn't align with hers, the pedestal crumbled. He was no longer a perfect reflection of her, but a separate, flawed person, and she couldn't handle it. That's when the devaluation starts. The pedestal is a way to keep you at a safe, idealized distance, not to truly love you.

Mark: Okay, so you've used this field guide, you've spotted the emotional hot potato and the stealth control in someone you care about. Is there any hope? Or is the only advice, as you said earlier, to run for the hills? This is the million-dollar question. Michelle: It really is. And this is where Malkin's book becomes so important and, frankly, controversial. The prevailing wisdom, especially online, is that narcissists are incapable of change. Full stop. Mark: Right, that's what I've always heard. They lack empathy, so how can they change? Michelle: Malkin argues that this is a dangerous oversimplification. He points to compelling research that suggests empathy isn't a fixed trait. It can be prompted. He describes a fascinating study by psychologists Hepper, Hart, and Sedikides. They had narcissistic participants watch a video of a domestic abuse survivor describing her experience. Mark: And they just felt nothing, right? Michelle: The control group did. But the other group was given a simple instruction: "Try to imagine how she feels." And when they did that, something remarkable happened. Not only did they report feeling more compassion, but their heart rates actually changed in a way that mirrored physiological signs of empathy. It's a response you can't fake. They were genuinely moved. Mark: Okay, a lab study is one thing. But in the middle of a real fight with your partner? How does that translate? Michelle: It translates into a technique Malkin calls "Empathy Prompts." It’s a way of communicating that bypasses their defenses. It has two simple parts. First, you voice the importance of the relationship. You lead with connection. Second, you share your own vulnerable feeling. Mark: So instead of "You're not listening to me!", you'd say something else? Michelle: Exactly. You'd say, "You're so important to me, and our conversations mean a lot. But when you look at your phone while I'm talking, it makes me feel small and unimportant." You're not attacking them; you're sharing your own experience and reminding them of the connection they're putting at risk. Mark: That feels... much more likely to be heard. It's not an accusation, it's an invitation. But what if it doesn't work? What's the red line? Michelle: And that is the crucial reality check Malkin provides. The test is what they do next. Do they get defensive and play more emotional hot potato? Or do they show a flicker of genuine concern? If, over time, they consistently prove unable to place the relationship ahead of their need to feel special, that's your answer. It's a sign they can't change without serious professional help, and you have to prioritize your own well-being.

Mark: So when you boil it all down, it's not really about 'good' people versus 'bad' people. It's about this universal human drive to feel special, and whether we're managing that drive in a healthy way, or if it's managing us. Michelle: Exactly. And Malkin's ultimate point is that healthy narcissism—that quiet, stable confidence that you matter—is what allows for real passion and real intimacy. It’s not about being the best, but about feeling special to the people you love. When you have that, you don't need the cheap high of the Manolo Blahniks or the thrill of putting someone else down. Mark: That's a really hopeful message. It takes a term we use as a weapon and turns it into a tool for understanding ourselves and others. Michelle: It really does. Maybe the one thing for our listeners to take away is to just notice this week: when do you reach for that feeling of being 'special'? Is it a healthy boost that connects you to others, or is it a crutch to avoid feeling something else? Mark: That's a great question to sit with. And we'd love to hear from you all. Have you had a "Manolo Blahnik" moment? Have you ever caught yourself playing emotional hot potato? Share your stories with us on our socials; it’s a conversation worth having. Michelle: This is Aibrary, signing off.