Roger: Hey everyone, and welcome back! Today we're talking about something a little different: the human side of leadership, the messy, vulnerable part we often ignore. Patricia, when was the last time you thought about your childhood fears when you were, say, planning quarterly goals? Patricia: Childhood fears? Does looking at a spreadsheet count? Seriously though, Roger, isn’t leadership about, you know, steering the ship? Not exactly about whether the captain needs therapy. Roger: That's where Jerry Colonna's book, "Reboot: Leadership and the Art of Growing Up," really shakes things up. He basically says leadership isn't just about strategy or making decisions. It’s really rooted in self-awareness. He believes that by diving into your past and facing your emotional baggage—yes, even the childhood stuff—you become a more complete and effective leader. Patricia: Okay, I see the potential there. But please tell me this isn’t just some touchy-feely self-help book? Roger: Not at all. Colonna offers real depth. He gives reflective questions, shares personal stories, and includes examples of leaders who’ve actually gone through this process. It's like getting therapy for your leadership style, minus the awkward couch. Patricia: Therapy for leadership, huh? So, we're essentially going to be unpacking this idea of looking inward as a way to grow as a leader? Roger: Precisely, Patricia. We'll discuss how embracing our vulnerabilities can make us stronger, why understanding our emotions is just as important as understanding finances, and most importantly, how to turn all this self-reflection into action. Kind of like using self-awareness as a compass to guide towards a more purpose-driven leadership. Patricia: Sounds like quite the journey. So, Roger, lead the way. I'm ready to get introspective.

Roger: So, let's dive into what Jerry Colonna calls "radical self-inquiry." It's central to his book, and honestly, Patricia, it's more than just a technique; it's a whole mindset. He believes that true leadership stems from a willingness to “really” examine ourselves, to unpack the stories we've been telling ourselves since we were kids. These stories shape everything, not just how we lead, but how we live our lives. Patricia: Childhood stories, eh? Are we talking about those hero narratives, you know, where we're saving the world? Or are we talking about the more painful ones, like always being picked last for sports, the ones that leave lasting scars? Roger: Probably a bit of both, actually! Colonna’s idea of radical self-inquiry isn’t about judging or romanticizing your past; it’s about understanding how those early experiences programmed you. Like, take journaling, for example. He suggests leaders ask themselves things like, “What’s “really” driving my ambition?” or "What am I trying to protect myself from?" You'd be amazed at the clarity you can get just by writing things down, Patricia. Patricia: Okay, so you're journaling, you're digging deep into your psyche – then what? Do you suddenly become enlightened and start dispensing wisdom like some kind of corporate guru? Roger: Not quite! It's a gradual process. You start to see the origins of patterns that might be holding you back. For example, say a leader constantly avoids difficult conversations. Through journaling, they might realize it stems from a childhood fear of conflict, maybe they grew up in a home where disagreements always escalated. Recognizing that connection allows them to consciously change their behavior. Patricia: I get the theory, but it still seems... abstract, you know? It's a nice idea, but how do you apply it when you're dealing with real-world problems, like putting out fires and hitting quarterly targets? Roger: That's where mindfulness comes into play. Colonna talks about observing your patterns as they happen. A leader who's always micromanaging their team, for instance, could pause and ask themselves, "Why am I doing this?" "Am I acting out of fear that something will go wrong, or am I feeling insecure about my position?" It's about creating that space between your initial reaction and your response. Patricia: So it's about slowing down in a world that's constantly telling us to speed up. Roger: Exactly! And I think it ties in beautifully with Colonna's own childhood story about that Monopoly game with his mom, remember? Patricia: Oh, you mentioned that! Let me guess, Monopoly wasn't just a family game; it was a symbolic representation of deeper emotional dynamics? Roger: Exactly! For Colonna, Monopoly wasn’t just about rolling dice; it reflected his mother’s anxieties around money and scarcity. Her intensity during those games mirrored her real-life struggles with financial security. As a child playing along, he internalized that tension. Years later, as a leader, he realized how much that early experience shaped his own fears of financial instability and his drive to overachieve. Patricia: So, the Monopoly board was less about hotels on Boardwalk and more of a crash course in emotional economics. Roger: Perfectly said! But the power here isn't just in recognizing how these experiences linger, it's what you do with that realization. Colonna didn’t just unpack this connection and move on. He re-examined his relationship with money and accountability. That’s what radical self-inquiry does – it gives you the self-awareness to break free from patterns you might not even realize are holding you back. Patricia: Okay, let’s talk about these patterns, because this seems to overlap with another fascinating concept in the book: the "Loyal Soldier." What's that all about? Roger: Oh, I love this metaphor. The Loyal Soldier represents the survival strategies we unconsciously develop in childhood to cope with difficult situations. Maybe you became hyper-vigilant because you grew up in a chaotic household, or maybe you became a perfectionist to avoid criticism. These strategies were life savers back then. But as adults, we often bring them into situations where they no longer serve us. Patricia: Ah, the loyal but outdated bodyguard. Still standing guard, even though the castle’s been safe for years. Roger: Exactly. Colonna shares this compelling case study of someone whose Loyal Soldier manifested as a need for absolute control. This leader grew up in an environment where nothing felt predictable, so they overcompensated by micromanaging everything at work. Radical self-inquiry helped them realize the root of their fear – fear of failure. Once they acknowledged it, they could loosen their grip, trust their team, and stop exhausting themselves with the need to oversee every detail. Patricia: Let me play devil's advocate here. How does this person's breakthrough translate to a larger organization? It sounds profound on a personal level, but scaling vulnerability or emotional awareness in a company feels, well, tricky. What if not everyone buys into this deep-dive approach? Roger: Fair question. But here’s the thing: Colonna's not suggesting that you force-feed radical self-inquiry onto your entire org chart. It starts with modeling. A leader who’s done that inner work leads by example. They show the value of self-awareness in how they listen, how they respond to challenges, even by admitting when they’ve made mistakes or don’t have all the answers. Patricia: So, vulnerability isn't just a buzzword, it's a leadership strategy. Roger: More like a cultural shift. Picture this: a leader admits to their team, “I’m worried about how we’ll hit this quarter’s numbers, and I don’t have all the answers. But I trust this group to figure it out together.” That creates psychological safety; it encourages the team to step up, collaborate, and think creatively instead of hiding their own uncertainties. Patricia: Alright, Roger, I'll give you this: it’s refreshing to think that leadership doesn’t have to mean posing as a superhero with unshakable confidence. I'm warming up to the idea that showing your human side might actually make you a stronger leader. Roger: That's exactly what Colonna’s getting at. This idea that authenticity is the opposite of perfection. Leadership isn’t about wearing armor; it’s about showing your humanity. Once you embrace radical self-inquiry, you’re not just leading, you’re creating space for others to do the same.

Roger: And so that introspection naturally leads us to understand how emotional foundations actually shape leadership styles. And that's where Colonna takes us next—into the complexities of emotional turbulence and how it fuels growth. The idea here is to progress from internal self-awareness to understanding the emotional dynamics in leadership, both within ourselves and in our relationships with others. Patricia: Alright, Roger, so we’re basically moving from looking inward to navigating the, uh, icebergs of emotional relationships and challenges all around us, right? Let’s dive into this turbulence thing. How does actually facing it, instead of running for the hills, make someone a better leader, huh? Roger: It's a great question! Colonna views emotional turbulence—whether it's heartbreak, you know, irrational relationships, or internal struggles—not as pure obstacles, but as opportunities for growth. He believes these experiences are transformative because they teach us resilience. In fact, his use of metaphors like "clouds and waves" perfectly captures the transient nature of these challenges. Think about it: clouds can obstruct the sky, but they eventually pass. Waves rise and fall, symbolizing the highs and lows we all face. Patricia: "Clouds and waves"—sounds almost too poetic for a boardroom setting, doesn't it? But I do like the idea that leaders who can weather some storms end up stronger. What's interesting, though—and you'll have to unpack this for me—is how Colonna connects a leader's childhood experiences to these emotional dynamics. I mean, how does that shape how they deal with turbulence now? Roger: It’s incredibly insightful—and, at times, deeply personal. Colonna shares an example from his own childhood. He describes growing up in a household where his mother’s emotional volatility, combined with his father’s passivity, created an environment of tension and unpredictability. As a result, Colonna actually developed hyper-vigilance as a survival tactic—always scanning his environment to anticipate potential conflicts. Patricia: Hyper-vigilance as a kid—yeah, that makes total sense. But fast-forward to adulthood, to leadership roles—how does that upbringing actually echo in professional life? Roger: That’s the fascinating part. Colonna realized that this hyper-vigilance, while useful, you know, in his chaotic childhood, became a liability in his leadership. It manifested as micromanagement and, honestly, a need to control situations. He wasn’t consciously thinking, “I need to manage every single detail because of my childhood,” of course, but those patterns don’t just vanish with age. They stick around until you confront them. Patricia: So, what did he do to break that cycle? I mean, this isn’t something you fix with a quick pep talk in the mirror, right? Roger: Definitely not. He leaned into the process of radical self-inquiry—asking himself some seriously hard questions about what was driving those behaviors. It led to a breakthrough: he realized his overwhelming need to control, it was rooted in a childhood desire for emotional safety. Once he understood that, he could start letting go—step back, trust his team, and stop carrying this exhausting weight of hyper-responsibility. Patricia: That’s huge. But, let me push this a bit further. What happens when leaders start confronting these emotional underpinnings, but then encounter, let’s call it, “the irrational other”? You know, that colleague or co-founder who just pushes every single one of your buttons? Roger: Ah, the irrational other. This is crucial because Colonna believes these relationships are actually some of our greatest teachers. He shares an example of a client who had a toxic dynamic with their co-founder. On the surface, it looked like standard professional disagreements, but digging deeper, the client realized their frustration was tied to something very personal. Their co-founder’s emotional detachment mirrored dynamics from their own childhood—specifically, a lack of emotional validation. Patricia: So, they were basically projecting childhood wounds onto boardroom drama! That’s… quite a revelation. But what happens when you actually make that connection? Does it magically fix the relationship? Roger: Not magic—hard work. For Colonna’s client, the realization helped them shift from frustration to empathy. They began to see their co-founder not just as this, you know, “irrational other,” but as someone likely carrying their own emotional baggage. With that understanding, they opened up more honest, vulnerable conversations and slowly rebuilt trust. That shift not only repaired their partnership but also set a new tone for their team’s culture. Patricia: I see. So it’s about reframing irrational behavior not as some personal attack, but as a signal—like a mirror reflecting some unresolved pain, either yours or theirs. I kind of hate to admit it, Roger, but this is... kind of brilliant. Roger: I knew you'd come around! And Colonna connects this back to his childhood, too. He reflects on navigating his parents’ unpredictable emotional dynamics—his mother’s fantastical outbursts, his father’s quiet passivity. Those experiences taught him to manage emotions, both his and those of others, with compassion. He came to see irrationality not as something to battle, but to understand. Patricia: I’ll give you this—it’s a lot harder to lead with empathy when you’re stuck in reactive mode. So, let’s talk tools. How does Colonna suggest actually handling these waves of conflict without just getting totally swept under? Roger: That’s where his metaphor of clouds and waves “really” shines. Think of clouds—those emotional storms like frustration or fear—they’re temporary. Acknowledge them, sure, but don’t let them define your leadership. And the waves? They’re the rhythm of life—the highs and lows you ride out with balance. During his vision quest, Colonna talked about finding stillness amid chaos, realizing that turbulence doesn’t mean you’re lost; it means you’re alive. Patricia: So, leaders need to stop trying to calm the storm, and instead actually focus on steadying the ship. It’s less about fixing the chaos all around you and more about finding that internal equilibrium. Roger: Exactly. And this ties into Colonna’s broader message about balancing strength and compassion. Facing emotional turbulence, it doesn’t mean you abandon authority or decisiveness. It means integrating vulnerability—showing your team that it’s okay to not have all the answers. Patricia: You mean like admitting you're stressed about company targets, but also showing trust in your team to deliver. Strength and compassion, both sides of the same leadership coin, huh? Roger: That’s right. And when leaders model that duality, they create cultures where others feel safe to do the same. Think about it: vulnerability, it builds connection, connection builds trust, and trust, that drives innovation. Patricia: So, leadership, then, it's less about commanding a team and more about creating a space where everyone thrives—even in the middle of a storm, right? Roger: Brilliantly put! And that’s exactly how leaders transform emotional turbulence—not by avoiding it, but by leaning into it and growing through the process.

Roger: So, with emotional resilience in place, leaders can really start applying this growth practically. That's where Colonna takes us next, Patricia—how do you turn self-awareness into tangible actions that influence leadership and life? Patricia: Ah, so we’re moving from thinking about ourselves to actually doing something with it. I guess this will finally answer how digging into your inner world translates into leading a team or a whole company? Roger: Exactly! Colonna offers practices like journaling, mindfulness, and storytelling to bridge that gap between knowing yourself and acting as a leader. These aren’t just abstract concepts; they’re daily tools to help you show up differently, not just for yourself but for those around you. Patricia: Okay, journaling. I think “Dear Diary," but I'm guessing Colonna goes deeper than that? Roger: Definitely. Colonna sees journaling as a structured way to explore your internal landscape. It’s a space for leaders to process fears, beliefs, and motivations that might be unconsciously driving their decisions. He suggests prompts like, "What am I protecting myself from?" or "Why does this trigger me?" It’s less about a record of events, more about uncovering patterns. Patricia: Right, but what if I’m a leader who’s never journaled? Where do I even start without feeling like it's a waste of time? Roger: That's a great question, and Colonna actually addresses that. He suggests starting small, focusing on specific prompts that aren't overwhelming. He shares a story about someone in his boot camp who resisted journaling until they explored a prompt about childhood promises. This unlocked a memory of sleeping under an overpass as a child and vowing never to feel powerless again. This insight reframed their leadership approach, especially their relentless pursuit of financial success, which had been costing their employees and ethics. Patricia: Wow, that's powerful. So, journaling isn’t just about your schedule; it’s about peeling back layers to understand what truly motivates you. Roger: Exactly. Find those layers, and you can choose a different response. It’s like pausing the autopilot and rewiring how you lead. Patricia: Journaling—okay, it might be more than just diary entries. What about stillness? Seems a bit… counterintuitive in a high-pressure environment. Roger: It does, but that's precisely why it’s so important. Colonna suggests mindfulness and stillness as ways to navigate chaos without getting swallowed up. It's about making space in your day to reset, reflect, and just… breathe. Patricia: So, mindfulness is more than just the ocean sounds app I downloaded but never used? Roger: Precisely! Mindfulness could be pausing before a meeting to center yourself or stepping back from a conflict to ask, "What's “really” going on here?" Colonna himself experienced this after leaving his high-powered job. Stillness helped him stop chasing external approval and reconnect with his values. Patricia: Okay, but how do you balance that with a crazy schedule? Pausing sounds nice in theory, but what about back-to-back crises? Roger: It requires practice. Colonna doesn't mean meditating for hours; it’s about finding moments. Even a two-minute breathing exercise between calls can shift your mindset. These moments accumulate over time, helping you respond to stress with clarity rather than just reacting. Patricia: Like training your brain to be calm instead of chaotic. Now, storytelling—how does sharing your own story fit into leadership? Roger: Storytelling is about connection. Colonna sees it as a way for leaders to embrace their vulnerabilities and inspire others. By sharing personal experiences—whether it's overcoming a failure or dealing with a fear—you become more human, and create a safer space for others to do the same. Patricia: Sounds effective, but also risky. What if being vulnerable backfires? Is there a line between connecting and oversharing? Roger: That's a valid point, Patricia, and Colonna does stress setting boundaries. Vulnerability isn’t about sharing every detail of your life—it means being honest in a way that serves a purpose. He shares a story from one of his boot camps. A leader shared their childhood shame about wearing second-hand clothes. The story resonated with others, creating a powerful moment of solidarity. It wasn’t just about vulnerability; it was about building trust. Patricia: Alright, I see how that could change team dynamics. People are more likely to take risks or innovate when they feel understood. How do you scale this kind of storytelling across an entire organization? Roger: Modeling is key. When leaders share thoughtfully, they set the tone. This could involve team-building activities or informal check-ins where people are encouraged to talk about more than just work. It's about building a culture of empathy, one story at a time. Patricia: So, journaling for introspection, mindfulness for clarity, and storytelling for connection. But how does this actually make a difference organization-wide? Roger: That's the beauty of Colonna’s framework. Leaders who integrate these practices aren’t just changing themselves; they’re changing their teams and workplaces. Compassionate leadership leads to psychological safety, which research proves boosts collaboration and innovation. And this extends beyond the company—it shapes how employees interact with communities, families, and even other organizations. Patricia: So, better leaders make better humans, and better humans make better societies. Roger: Exactly. Colonna's point is that leadership isn’t just a role; it’s a reflection of who you are. By committing to self-inquiry, and integrating it into daily habits, leaders create ripples of growth that extend far beyond themselves. The result? More humane, resilient leadership—and ultimately, a better world.

Roger: So, Patricia, to bring it all together, we've really dug into Jerry Colonna's framework today . It's like, start with some serious self-reflection , see emotional challenges as opportunities , and then weave mindfulness, journaling, and storytelling into your daily routine as a leader . Basically, transform yourself, and that'll naturally lead to more authentic and compassionate leadership . Patricia: Yeah, and what I keep coming back to is this balance that Colonna talks about – pairing strength with vulnerability . It's not about suddenly missing deadlines or dropping the ball, but about leading from a place of self-awareness . And that, strangely enough, makes you tougher, more connected, and ultimately, better at what you do . Roger: Exactly ! The core of “Reboot” is this idea that leadership is more than just hitting targets . It's about finding the courage to really embrace your own humanity, your own flaws . And by doing that, you're actually creating an environment where other people can flourish – not just at work, but in their lives too . Patricia: Alright, so what's the bottom line here ? Instead of running away from the tough emotions, the chaos, or even those not-so-great childhood memories, you need to lean into them . Start asking yourself those hard questions . What old, outdated beliefs are actually driving your behavior ? What are you “really” afraid of ? And, maybe most importantly, what kind of leader – and person – do you actually want to be ? Roger: That's beautifully put, Patricia . And remember, leadership isn't about being perfect . It's about growing . It’s a messy, human process, and like Colonna says, it's a lifelong journey .