Michelle: The most dangerous negotiation is the one you don't know you're in. And the most common advice for it—'split the difference'—is probably the worst thing you can do. Mark: That’s a bold statement. I feel like my entire life has been a series of splitting the difference. With my wife, my boss, my kids... it feels like the only way to keep the peace. Michelle: And that's the trap! It’s not about meeting in the middle; it’s about winning without a fight. That's the core premise of a book that completely rewired my brain on this topic: Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. Mark: Right, this is the guy who was the FBI's lead international hostage negotiator. It’s not some business school professor in an ivory tower; this is someone whose negotiations were literally life-or-death. Michelle: Exactly. And that's what makes his ideas so potent. He tested them against kidnappers and terrorists, and now his firm, The Black Swan Group, trains Fortune 500 companies in the same methods. The book itself became a massive bestseller, but it’s also been a bit controversial. Mark: I can imagine. Some of these tactics must walk a fine line. Let's get into that. Where do we even start with unpacking the mind of a hostage negotiator?

Michelle: We start with the most fundamental rule Voss teaches: negotiation isn't a battle of logic, it's a dance with emotion. The old school of thought, from books like Getting to Yes, was to "separate the people from the problem." Voss says that's impossible. The person is the problem. Their feelings, their fears, their desires—that's the entire landscape of the negotiation. Mark: Okay, that makes sense on a surface level. We all know people get emotional. But what do you do with that? You can't just say, "Hey, stop being emotional, let's be logical." Michelle: You do the opposite. You lean into the emotion. He calls the core of his method 'Tactical Empathy.' It’s not about agreeing with them or feeling sorry for them. It's about deeply understanding their perspective and then vocalizing that understanding. It's a way of saying, "I see the world the way you see it right now." Mark: 'Tactical Empathy' sounds like a military term. What does it actually mean in a real conversation? Michelle: It starts with some deceptively simple techniques. The first one is called 'Mirroring.' It’s essentially repeating the last one to three words your counterpart has just said, but as a question. Mark: Wait, so you're telling me just repeating the last three words someone says actually works? That sounds incredibly awkward and robotic. "I'm really angry about this." "Angry about this?" Come on. Michelle: It feels awkward when you think about it, but it's magic in practice. It’s a neuro-linguistic hack. When you mirror someone, it triggers a deep, instinctual response that makes them feel listened to, and they can't help but elaborate. They reword, they explain, they give you more information. Voss tells this incredible story from 1993, a bank robbery at a Chase Manhattan in Brooklyn. Mark: A real bank robbery? Michelle: A real one. Two robbers, hostages inside. The initial negotiator is getting nowhere. The lead robber is erratic, making threats. So Voss takes over the phone. He doesn't argue, he doesn't demand. He just uses a calm, downward-inflecting tone—what he calls the 'Late-Night, FM DJ Voice'—and starts mirroring. The robber says, "I got a shotgun!" Voss calmly replies, "A shotgun?" The guy says, "Yeah, and we're not coming out!" Voss says, "Not coming out?" And this simple, calm repetition completely changes the dynamic. The robber starts talking, explaining his situation, giving up details he never would have otherwise. Mark: Wow. So it’s not about the words, it’s about the signal you’re sending—that you’re listening intently. Michelle: Precisely. And there's even research to back it up. A psychologist named Richard Wiseman did a study with waiters. One group used positive reinforcement, saying things like "Great choice!" The other group simply mirrored the customers' orders back to them. The mirroring group's average tips were 70 percent higher. Mark: Seventy percent! Okay, I’m sold on trying that next time I’m out to eat. What’s the next level up from Mirroring? Michelle: The next level is 'Labeling.' This is where you proactively identify and name your counterpart's emotion. You use phrases like, "It seems like..." or "It sounds like..." or "It looks like..." You're not saying "You are angry," which is accusatory. You're saying, "It seems like you're feeling angry about this." It’s an observation, not a diagnosis. Mark: And people don't get defensive? Michelle: It's the opposite. It defuses the emotion. There’s a brain imaging study from UCLA that shows when you ask someone to label an emotion, activity in the amygdala—the fear center—goes down, and activity in the prefrontal cortex—the rational thinking part—goes up. You are literally moving their brain from fear to logic just by naming the feeling. Mark: That is fascinating. Give me a high-stakes example. Michelle: The most powerful one in the book is the Harlem apartment standoff. Voss and his team are outside an apartment where three armed fugitives are holed up. They've been in a shootout. SWAT is everywhere. For six hours, they get nothing but silence. No response. So Voss gets on the bullhorn, but instead of yelling "Come out with your hands up!", he starts labeling their fears. Mark: What did he say? Michelle: He said things like, "It looks like you don’t want to come out." "It seems like you worry that if you open the door, we’ll come in with guns blazing." "It looks like you don’t want to go back to jail." He just kept calmly repeating these labels, acknowledging their reality from their point of view. Mark: And what happened? Michelle: For six hours, nothing. Then, after all that silence, the door creaks open. A woman comes out. Then another person. Then the last one. They all surrender peacefully. Later, they asked the fugitives why they gave up. Their answer? They said they knew Voss and his team wouldn't go away, and his calm voice made them believe they wouldn't get hurt. He had labeled their fear, and in doing so, he made them feel safe. Mark: Okay, that's an amazing story. But it also sounds a bit like mind control. This is where the manipulation criticism of the book comes in, right? Are you just playing a game with their feelings to get what you want? Michelle: That’s the big question, and Voss is clear on it. He says the difference is in your intent. If you're using these tools to genuinely understand the other person and find a solution, it's tactical empathy. If you're just faking it to trick them, they'll eventually see through it and you'll lose all trust. It’s about validation and de-escalation, not deception. You’re building a bridge to their emotional island, not invading it.

Michelle: And that idea of de-escalation and making the other person feel safe brings us to the second, equally counter-intuitive pillar of his philosophy: actively seeking the word 'No.' Mark: Actively seeking 'No'? Everything in sales and negotiation is about getting to 'Yes.' 'Yes' is the goal! Michelle: Voss argues that pushing for 'Yes' too early is a huge mistake. It makes people defensive. They feel like they're being led into a trap. We've all experienced this. Think about a pushy salesperson. "Do you want to save money?" "Do you want a better product?" You say "yes, yes, yes," but you feel cornered, and at the end, you still say "No, thanks." Voss says a 'No' is actually more valuable than a cheap 'Yes.' Mark: How can 'No' be valuable? 'No' is the end of the road. Michelle: Not at all. 'No' is the start of the negotiation. When someone says 'No,' they feel they've protected themselves. They feel safe and in control. And once they feel safe, they relax and are more willing to actually listen and talk. A 'No' allows you to clarify what they don't want, which helps you figure out what they do want. It's often just a way of saying, "I'm not ready to agree yet," or "I don't understand," or "I can't afford that." Mark: Huh. So a 'No' isn't a rejection of me, it's a rejection of my offer. Michelle: Exactly. And it protects you from what Voss calls the three types of 'Yes.' There's the Commitment 'Yes,' which is what you want—a real agreement. But there are also the Confirmation 'Yes'—just a simple affirmation—and the Counterfeit 'Yes.' Mark: Oh, I know that counterfeit 'Yes.' It's the 'Sure, I'll look at that email' from a coworker who you know will never open it. Or the 'Yes, dear' that means 'I'm not listening.' Michelle: That's the one. It's a tool people use to get you to go away. So how do you get past that and into a real conversation? You use what Voss calls 'Calibrated Questions.' These are open-ended questions that start with 'What' or 'How.' They are designed to make the other person stop and think, and they give them the illusion of being in control. Mark: The illusion of control? What do you mean? Michelle: The most powerful calibrated question is simply, "How am I supposed to do that?" It’s a brilliant way to say 'No' without being confrontational. It invites the other person to solve your problem. Voss tells this fantastic story about when he first got to Harvard to teach. The head of the negotiation research project, a top professor, ambushes him with a mock negotiation. He says, "We’ve got your son, Voss. Give us one million dollars or he dies." Mark: Whoa, talk about high stakes. What did Voss do? Michelle: He didn't say "I don't have a million dollars." He didn't say "That's not fair." He just calmly asked, "How am I supposed to do that?" The professor was completely thrown. He started trying to solve Voss's problem, suggesting he get a second mortgage, borrow from friends. Voss just kept asking 'How' questions. "How will I know he's safe?" "How can I get you the money without the police noticing?" The professor got so flustered he eventually just gave up and admitted the FBI might have something to teach them. Mark: That's incredible. He turned the tables completely just by asking 'How?' So for a normal person, say, negotiating a salary, how does this work? If my boss offers me a low number, do I just say 'How am I supposed to accept that?' Michelle: You can, but you'd phrase it collaboratively. You'd use labeling first. "Thank you for the offer. It seems like this is the standard range for this role." Then you pause. Then you might say, "This is a very generous offer, and I'm excited about the role. I'm just not sure how I can make that number work given my other competing offers and the market rate." You're not being a jerk. You're asking for their help. You've made them a partner in solving your problem. Mark: You're turning them into your unpaid consultant. Michelle: That's a perfect way to put it. You're making them think. And as Voss says, people will make much more effort to implement a solution when they think it's their idea.

Mark: So it seems like all these techniques—Mirroring, Labeling, seeking 'No,' asking 'How'—they're all really about the same thing: shifting the focus from a battle of wills to a collaborative process of discovery. You're not trying to beat them; you're trying to understand them so deeply that they end up helping you. Michelle: Exactly. Voss's big insight from dealing with terrorists is that everyone, from a kidnapper in the Philippines to a CEO in Ohio, is driven by the same fundamental human needs: to feel safe, to feel in control, and to feel understood. If you can provide that, you can guide almost any conversation. It’s not about being nice; it’s about being effective. The real negotiation is happening inside their head, and your job is to be the voice that guides them toward a solution that works for you. Mark: It’s a profound shift in thinking. It’s less about what you say and more about how you make them feel. So what's one thing someone listening can try today, without having to negotiate with a bank robber? Michelle: Try a simple label. The next time a friend, a family member, or a coworker seems frustrated or stressed, just say, "It seems like you've had a rough day." Don't offer a solution. Don't try to fix it. Just label the emotion and then be silent. See what happens. It's a tiny change that can have a huge impact on your conversations. Mark: I'm going to try that. It feels a lot less intimidating than asking my boss 'How am I supposed to do that?' And for our listeners, we'd love to hear your stories. Have you ever used one of these techniques, maybe without even knowing it? Or have you tried one after reading the book? Let us know what happened. Michelle: This is Aibrary, signing off.