Roger: Hey everyone, welcome back! Today, we're diving deep into what it “really” takes to be a great leader. We're using "Everyone Deserves a Great Manager" as our guide, which, by the way, promises to cut through the usual leadership fluff. Patricia: Okay, a book that says it can actually turn those dreaded Monday morning meetings into something… engaging? I’m listening, but I'm also a little skeptical. Roger: I get it! But this book isn't about quick fixes. It lays out six practices designed to help managers at all levels inspire their teams, communicate clearly, and build a workplace where people genuinely “want” to be. Patricia: Alright, I’m willing to be convinced. So what’s on the agenda today? Roger: We're hitting three core areas: First, how to move away from being the lone wolf solving every problem to a leader who empowers the entire team. Second, mastering the art of meaningful conversations – think one-on-ones and delivering truly effective feedback – to build real trust and connection. And finally, leading through change while managing your own energy, because resilience is key to keeping the whole team strong. Patricia: A house analogy, huh? Let’s just hope ours doesn’t end up with termites.

Roger: So, about shifting your mindset, let's dive straight into something foundational: developing a leader's mindset. Moving from being an individual contributor to a leader isn't just about a job title; it’s a complete reset of how you view success, your team, and your role in the bigger picture. Patricia: Right, so instead of being a superstar individual, it's about defining success by what the team accomplishes together. Sounds a bit idealistic, doesn't it, Roger? What stops a new manager from just doing everything themselves "because it's faster"? Roger: That’s where the "See-Do-Get Cycle" becomes so important. It illustrates how your mindset—the "See"—influences your actions—the "Do"—which then determines your outcomes, the "Get." For instance, if you believe your team is capable and motivated, you'll naturally delegate and empower them, right? This leads to better performance and higher morale. However, if you think they're incompetent, you might micromanage, do all the work yourself, and end up with a disengaged team. Patricia: So, it's about seeing through "leadership-colored glasses"—your beliefs about your team tend to become reality. But let's run this by an example. If I think someone on my team is unreliable, the book suggests reflecting on why I believe that. Am I really supposed to psychoanalyze why my reports are late? Roger: Not exactly. It’s about examining your perception of "unreliable." Dig deeper, and maybe you'll see that your judgment is based on a one-time missed deadline due to unusual circumstances. The goal is to challenge inherent biases, especially since they impact how you manage people. Do you always assume people need constant hand-holding, or are you open to giving them opportunities to grow at their own pace? Patricia: Okay, that's a fair point. But how do I know if I’m being objective? It's not like team members come with labels saying "Judge me fairly." Roger: This is where that self-awareness exercise in the book comes in handy. Write down your beliefs about each team member, and then ask yourself: Are these beliefs truly based on facts, or are they just assumptions? Take "Ethan," for example. You think Ethan lacks initiative because he always waits for instructions, but have you clearly defined expectations for him to take initiative? Or maybe he's afraid of failure? Patricia: Huh, so maybe it’s not Ethan’s lack of initiative, but my failure to communicate effectively. That's... humbling as hell. I’ll admit, I've occasionally thought, "If you want it done right, do it yourself." Roger: That mindset is incredibly common, especially among new managers. Think about Scott Miller’s story. Early on, he thought micromanaging was the key to success. Spoiler: It wasn’t. It killed trust and morale. Only through honest feedback did he shift his perspective. This is a shift that not only made him a better leader but also helped his team thrive. Patricia: So Scott had to unlearn bad habits. But if I'm just starting as a leader, how can I avoid making the same mistakes? Roger: Unlearning is definitely a process, and here is the important starting point: stop believing you need to master every detail or have all the answers. Instead, put your energy into empowering others. Delegate, even if it feels risky at first, and give your team room to grow. Leadership is about setting the stage for their success, not solving every problem alone. Patricia: "Delegate even if it feels risky"? That’s where you lose me. What if they mess up? Ultimately, I’m responsible. Roger: And that’s what holds many people back—fear of letting go. But the story of Victoria, the marketing manager, shows how powerful delegation can be. She initially approved every tiny detail of her team's work because she lacked trust. She was burned out and her team was stifled. But, when she empowered her team leads to make decisions, results improved dramatically and morale skyrocketed. It’s not about shirking responsibility; it’s about guiding and mentoring your team to grow. Patricia: Okay, so trust is central to this entire mindset shift. But I'm guessing Victoria didn't just wake up one day as a delegation guru. How does someone build that trust with their team? Roger: Great question. Start small. Delegate lower-stakes tasks, give clear guidelines, but allow room for creativity. When your team delivers, acknowledge their efforts. This reinforcement reinforces the trust. And, when mistakes occur, treat them as chances to learn, not as punishable offenses. That’s how you transition from simply managing tasks to truly leading people. Patricia: So, I need to go from "chief perfectionist" to "chief mentor." Got it. But the perfectionist in me is still skeptical. What if trust-building doesn’t work and despite all the trust-building, the results are still not up to par? Roger: That’s where feedback comes in. Effective leaders use feedback as a coaching tool, not just as criticism. The book emphasizes asking questions like, "What did you learn from this experience?" or "What support would help you improve next time?" It’s about growth, not blame. Patricia: Growth over blame, huh? That feels like a stark shift from the "get it right the first time" mentality that most workplaces encourage. But it makes perfect sense—if I want my team to grow, I need to nurture that growth, not kill it with unattainable standards. Roger: Exactly. Developing a leader's mindset isn’t about instant results. It’s a continuous process. And honestly, Patricia, if you can embrace the "See-Do-Get Cycle" and start challenging those old habits, even perfectionists can become transformational leaders.

Roger: So, after establishing a leadership mindset, the next step is really getting practical about engaging and empowering your team. That's why we're diving into 1-on-1s and creating a culture of feedback. It’s about moving from just thinking like a leader to actually* acting* like one through interpersonal dynamics and constantly improving. Patricia: Ah, so we're swapping our leadership theory hats for hard work in the trenches of real-world interactions. Is this where the super fun part begins, like actually building trust and figuring out how to manage everyone’s feelings without losing it? I mean, this is what leadership is, right? Roger: Absolutely. It's the deeply human aspect of leadership that demands real intention and real effort. And everything starts with those 1-on-1 meetings, which the book says are really the key to trust and engagement. But the important thing to remember is that they're not just task rundowns, and they shouldn’t turn into mini status updates. It’s more about creating an open, safe space for real connection and coaching. Patricia: "Real connection"—hmm. Okay, in my personal experience, these meetings usually end up somewhere between awkward small talk and a very polite, “Everything’s totally fine!” How do we actually cut through that surface-level stuff? Roger: It's a super common issue, and the book gives great tips to revamp those meetings. The first is structure. Collaborative agendas, where both the manager and employee add topics, can really help. Whether it's challenges, career goals, or feedback, everyone comes prepared. It just takes away that random feeling and makes sure the conversation is useful. Patricia: Collaborative agendas—okay, I see the value there. But what if I have someone who’s just really quiet, barely says anything, or gives the classic line: "Nothing to report"? Roger: Then you, as the leader, have to level up your questioning skills, right? Open-ended questions totally work here. Instead of a closed question like, "How’s the project?" which will get a short answer, try, "What challenges are you running into this week?" Or, “What’s been energizing you lately?” Something that makes them think and actually drives a conversation. Patricia: Right, but let’s be real – sometimes people just don’t want to share all their issues with their boss. How am I supposed to build that trust, so they feel comfortable actually answering? Roger: That’s when active listening becomes your superpower. It’s more than just hearing them, it’s picking up on what they don’t say—their emotions, that little bit of hesitation. Repeating back what you hear, like “It sounds like you’re feeling stuck; let’s dig into that,” shows you empathize. When they know you genuinely care, they're more likely to let you in. Patricia: Got it. Listening, empathy, smart questions—sounds easy enough in theory, but in the real world, managers still default to just talking tasks and rushing through. How do you break that habit? Roger: For sure. Take Mia, for example, from the book. She's a team leader with a hybrid team. Her first 1-on-1s were only about deadlines and tasks, which slowly killed her team's morale. She realized that those surface-level talks weren't cutting it, so she changed her 1-on-1s to focus on well-being, growth, and making sure everyone was on the same page. Sarah, one of her team members, opened up about how frustrated she was with a new tool in one of those conversations, which led to a targeted training session and more trust between them. Patricia: So, for Sarah, a simple complaint about a tool turned into something really productive because Mia reframed her 1-on-1s. Alright, I’m sold. But let’s not pretend every meeting turns into this amazing breakthrough. What happens when you hit a slow week, and there’s just nothing critical to talk about? Roger: Use that time to check in on the big picture, right? Ask them, “What’s something you’d like to accomplish in the next six months?” or, “How are you feeling about your workload right now?” It's not just about waiting for big problems to pop up — it’s about consistently engaging with and coaching your team. Patricia: Okay, a purposeful 1-on-1 definitely sounds better than just asking "How's it going?" every week. But then there's the other thing— the dreaded F-word. Feedback. Roger: Ah, yes, feedback—the lifeblood of growth but also one of the trickiest things. So many managers either avoid it entirely or they deliver it so poorly. The book stresses that we have to build a feedback culture, where it flows both ways, is constructive, and is frequent. Patricia: Avoiding it? Guilty. Doing it badly? Also guilty. I mean, come on—telling someone to "be more proactive" is easier said than done. How do you actually make that criticism useful? Roger: That’s where specifics and actions matter. Take Allen from the book. His general feedback about being "proactive" just left his employee confused. Later, Allen learned to give feedback focused on specific behavior. Instead of being vague, he said, "In the last client meeting, I noticed you hesitated to share your solutions. Next time, I’d like you to share your ideas earlier to set the tone for collaboration." Clear, actionable, and focused on the future. Patricia: That makes total sense— you’re not just calling out the problem; you’re pointing towards a solution. But how do you balance that with recognizing people? It seems like it would be exhausting if all feedback was negative. Roger: Totally. The best feedback includes both the good and the bad. The book suggests finding a balance between redirecting feedback, pointing out where to improve, and reinforcing feedback, celebrating successes so people repeat great behavior. For example, shout out someone’s proactive attitude right after a meeting. Patricia: Okay, so balance is key—praise what’s working, guide what needs changing. But how do you deal with employees who get defensive even with mild feedback? You know, the ones who take everything personally? Roger: That’s where psychological safety is everything. Feedback only works when people feel safe. The book advises normalizing mistakes as learning moments. For example, if someone bombs a presentation, don’t say, “That was a disaster.” Instead, you could say, “We’ve all been there. Let’s walk through what went well and what you’d do differently next time.” Patricia: So, the goal is to take the sting out of feedback and make it a collaboration. But does this only work in super supportive workplaces? What about teams that are already stuck in a blame-heavy or feedback-averse environment? Roger: Changing a toxic feedback culture is hard, but it can be done with consistent effort. Stick to those 1-on-1s, give feedback often and constructively, and ask your team for their thoughts. Over time, these small changes can shift the whole tone. Patricia: Alright, I’ll admit it, this whole feedback thing has potential. If I really try to use it during 1-on-1s, maybe even I can get rid of my reputation as being the "Constructive Criticism Overload" guy. Roger: Exactly. Once you put together well-thought-out 1-on-1s with a good feedback culture, you’re really setting your team up for trust, engagement, and growth.

Roger: Once trust and communication are solid, leaders face the challenge of guiding their teams through change. That's where we're headed next: leading through change, and effectively managing time and energy. We’re talking advanced leadership skills here, really tying together mindset, communication, and adaptability for long-term success. Patricia: “Advanced challenges," huh? So basically, what to do when everything hits the fan? Change is a given, but it's rarely smooth sailing. What's the secret to navigating those turbulent times without completely losing it? Roger: It really starts with understanding the three "Zones of Change": Disruption, Adoption, and Better Performance. These zones aren't just some abstract concept; they're a practical roadmap for navigating transformation. Let's start with the Zone of Disruption, which tends to feel like utter chaos. Productivity often dips when change hits, as teams grapple with uncertainty and, well, anxiety. Patricia: Ah, yes, the "everyone nervously updates their LinkedIn profile" stage. And leaders are expected to wave a magic wand and fix it, right? How? Roger: Not magic, Patricia—empathy and clear communication. Take Jasmine, for instance. Her tech startup went through a major restructuring, and her employees were understandably stressed and worried. She eased the tension by holding open forums where people could voice their concerns and feel heard. She was honest about the challenges, but created a safe space for acknowledgment. That small act of transparency really began to rebuild trust. Patricia: So, instead of pretending everything's perfect—or worse, avoiding the topic completely—she tackled the discomfort head-on. Okay, playing devil's advocate here: what if the "disruption" doesn't end with everyone holding hands and singing kumbaya? What if morale keeps tanking, despite the leader's best efforts? Roger: That's a tough situation, but honesty and consistency are absolutely key. Jasmine didn't just hold one meeting. She provided frequent updates and checked in with people individually. These ongoing efforts helped her team transition to the Zone of Adoption, where people tentatively start working with the change, even if they're not thrilled about it yet. Patricia: From chaos to... grudging acceptance? Let me guess, next comes the "Rah-rah, let's all embrace change!" speech? Roger: Not quite. In the adoption phase, it’s about giving people the tools and support to make the changes work. For instance, targeted training – workshops and such – ensures your team has the skills to manage new processes. And don't underestimate small wins. Robert, the financial services team leader, he really nailed this concept by celebrating the completion of their first successful trial with a new onboarding process like it was a major achievement. It boosted morale and really injected some energy into the process. Patricia: Small wins, eh? So, it’s less about some big inspirational speech and more about keeping momentum – keeping people engaged enough to reach the next milestone. Roger: Exactly. And that progress needs to be visible. You celebrate those victories, no matter how small, and keep reminding everyone of the bigger picture. People need to know their struggles are part of something worthwhile. Patricia: Definitely keeps things moving. Now, what about that final "Zone of Better Performance"? Are we talking about everyone magically falling in love with the change? Roger: Less "kumbaya" and more about setting up long-term systems to keep the benefits of the change going. Leaders can't just sit back. They need to actively seek feedback, make sure new processes align with team goals, and provide ongoing training. For example, a healthcare organization in the book tied team goals directly to initiatives – they really integrated those changes into their team’s culture. “That's” how you lock in that better performance. Patricia: I get it. Actively reinforcing the change rather than assuming new habits will just stick. Let me shift gears for a sec: if leading change is all about juggling emotions, morale, and keeping momentum, wouldn’t that drain a ton of personal energy? Roger: Absolutely. Burnout is a real threat to a leader's effectiveness. The book’s “Big Rocks” scheduling approach can be a lifesaver here. You identify your "big rocks," your top priorities, and you schedule those first before meetings, emails, or any other low-value tasks hog your calendar. Patricia: So instead of drowning in to-dos, you're hitting the stuff that really moves the needle. Makes sense. But what happens when your biggest priorities don't match your peak energy? Because not everyone's a morning person. Roger: Great point, Patricia. That's where energy audits come in. The book has you rate your energy levels throughout the week to figure out when you're at your best and when you're dragging. Once you know those patterns, you align your high-energy tasks – like strategic planning – with your peak periods. Patricia: Analyzing my own energy patterns... my calendar's already weeping. But seriously, does this work, or is it just repackaged time management fluff? Roger: It works because it's about prioritizing how you use your energy. Take Victoria, a marketing director. By tracking her energy, she realized she was most creative in the mornings, so she moved data-heavy work to the afternoons. Small changes like that really boosted her productivity and motivation. Patricia: Okay, that sounds better than my current system: mainlining coffee until deadlines blur. But energy management shouldn't stop with just one person, right? What about building that awareness across the team? Roger: Exactly. Leaders need to model good habits and create a culture where energy resilience is a shared value. A consulting firm in the book started doing "energy check-ins" during team meetings. People would talk about what drained them or energized them, and managers used that feedback to shift workloads or suggest different approaches. Patricia: Mandatory energy check-ins... Pretty bold, but I like it. It's not just pushing your team to hit targets; it's about ensuring they survive and thrive in the long run. Roger: Exactly. Encouraging breaks, offering flexibility, and integrating team wellness activities are essential for maintaining energy and morale. When leaders invest in both practical time management and energy resilience, they really set their teams up for lasting success. Patricia: So, between navigating change and managing energy, you've painted a picture of a seriously high-stakes balancing act. But if Jasmine, Robert, and Victoria can make it work, maybe there’s hope for the rest of us.

Roger: Okay, Patricia, let's bring this home. Today, we've explored some really transformative practices for leaders… stuff that goes way beyond just ticking boxes. We're talking about cultivating a leader's mindset, having genuinely meaningful one-on-ones, and skillfully navigating change, all while managing your own time and energy. I see these as the core pillars for managers who want to move from just surviving to really boosting engagement and driving performance. Patricia: Right. We've been discussing that shift—from feeling like you have to do everything yourself, to actually empowering your team. From those stiff, awkward one-on-ones to building real trust, and steering through constant change without everything collapsing. And, crucially, not running yourself into the ground in the process. It's a lot to balance, no question, but the real secret is staying consistent and intentional about it. Roger: Precisely! Leadership isn't about this impossible quest for perfection; it's about encouraging growth—both in yourself and in the people around you. So, here's a little challenge for our listeners: Think about one small tweak you can make, starting today. Maybe it's as simple as delegating just one task you've been hoarding, or thinking differently about how you give feedback. Leadership transformation really starts with these small, deliberate actions. Patricia: And while you're at it, maybe carve out some time on your calendar—those “Big Rocks,” as they say—before the email avalanche hits. Honestly, future you will be eternally grateful. Roger: Completely! And remember, great managers aren't born that way—they're developed, one practice at a time. It's truly never too late to become the kind of leader your team deserves.