Michelle: Most of us think we're pretty good at giving praise. But what if I told you that 90% of the time, our 'rewards' are actually making things worse? That compliment you gave your kid for their drawing might be the very reason they give up on art later. Mark: Hold on, that can't be right. Are you saying being nice is a bad thing now? That feels like a trap. My whole parenting strategy is basically just bribery and praise. Michelle: It feels like a trap because we've been taught the wrong rules! That very counterintuitive idea is at the heart of a book that quietly revolutionized everything from dog training to corporate management: Don't Shoot the Dog! by Karen Pryor. Mark: Karen Pryor... I know that name. Wasn't she the one who worked with dolphins? I feel like I saw a documentary about that. Michelle: Exactly. She was a behavioral biologist, and her work at Sea Life Park in Hawaii back in the 1960s is legendary. She was faced with a unique problem: she had to figure out how to train animals you couldn't force or punish. You can't put a leash on a dolphin that decides it's had enough. Mark: Right, it can just swim away. The ultimate silent treatment. Michelle: And that very constraint forced her to perfect the art of positive reinforcement, which is what we're diving into today. It's a system that goes so much deeper than just tossing someone a treat for a job well done. Mark: Okay, so what's the big secret? What are we all getting wrong about rewards?

Michelle: The first big mind-shift is understanding the difference between a casual 'reward' and what Pryor calls a 'reinforcer.' She gives a definition that is the secret key to all of this: "A reinforcer is anything that, occurring in conjunction with an act, tends to increase the probability that the act will occur again." Mark: Increase the probability. That sounds so... scientific. Not just "makes them happy." Michelle: Precisely. It’s not about emotion; it’s about data. Does the behavior happen more often after you do something? If yes, you've found a reinforcer. If no, you haven't, no matter how much you think they should like it. This is why the book was so groundbreaking. It took the fuzzy, moralistic ideas of 'reward' and 'punishment' and replaced them with the cold, hard mechanics of what actually works. Mark: I can see how that would be useful. But does it really make that much of a difference in the real world? It sounds a little clinical for, say, dealing with people. Michelle: It makes a world of difference. Pryor tells this fantastic story about a Wall Street lawyer in his forties named Pete. Pete was an avid squash player, but he had a terrible habit. Every time he made a mistake, he would curse himself out, get frustrated, and his game would just spiral downward. Mark: Oh, I've been there. Not on a squash court, but definitely in front of a piece of IKEA furniture. The self-talk gets ugly. Michelle: Exactly. So Pete overhears someone talking about reinforcement training and decides to try an experiment. Instead of punishing his errors, he decides to reinforce his good shots. When he hit a great shot, he'd say to himself, "Way to go, Pete!" When he was practicing alone, he'd even give himself a little pat on the back. Mark: Come on. Just from patting himself on the back? That seems way too simple to work for a high-powered lawyer. Michelle: That's what you'd think! But within two weeks, his game dramatically improved. He climbed four rungs on his club's ladder. He said he started enjoying the game more, and the anger and disappointment just melted away. He was literally reinforcing the neural pathways for good shots and letting the pathways for bad shots wither from neglect. Mark: Wow. So he was clicker-training himself, but with praise instead of a clicker. Michelle: You've nailed it. And he stumbled upon the other critical rule Pryor talks about: timing. The reinforcement has to be instantaneous. She has this great line: "Bingo! Now! In the instant, in real time, you, the learner, need to know that what you're doing right now has won you a prize." Mark: That makes so much sense. If you praise your kid for cleaning their room an hour after they've done it, they're not connecting the praise to the cleaning. They're connecting it to whatever they're doing right then, which is probably watching TV. Michelle: You're accidentally reinforcing TV-watching! This happens all the time. We think we're rewarding one thing, but our timing is off, and we're actually strengthening a completely different behavior. The classic example is the dog that finally comes back after you've been calling it for ten minutes. You're furious, but you say "Good dog!" when it finally arrives. Mark: Oh man, I am so guilty of this. You're not reinforcing 'coming when called.' You're reinforcing 'taking ten minutes to wander around before eventually showing up.' Michelle: Exactly! You've just reinforced a 10-minute delay. To be effective, the "Good dog!" would have to happen the second it turns its head to come toward you. That's why the clicker became so popular. It's a marker signal that says "YES, that exact thing you did at this precise moment is what earned you the reward." Mark: This is blowing my mind a little. It reframes everything. It’s not about being a 'good boss' or a 'nice parent.' It's about being a precise communicator. You're sending a signal that says, 'that behavior works, do more of it.' Michelle: It's pure information. And what's fascinating is that this approach changes the relationship. It's not about dominance or control. Pryor found with her dolphins that it became a creative game. The dolphins would start offering new, interesting behaviors, trying to figure out what would earn a click. They became active, curious partners in the process, not just passive subjects. Mark: So instead of just trying to avoid punishment, they're actively trying to invent ways to succeed. That's a huge psychological shift. Michelle: It's the difference between a workplace where you keep your head down to avoid getting yelled at, and one where you're excited to pitch new ideas because you know good work gets recognized. One is about fear, the other is about opportunity. Mark: Okay, so that's how you build up good habits. It's about finding a true reinforcer and timing it perfectly. But what about getting rid of the bad ones? My dog barks, my kids whine... I can't just praise them when they're not doing it, can I? That feels like it would take forever.

Michelle: That's the million-dollar question, and it's where Pryor's work gets really practical and, honestly, a bit mischievous. She lays out eight, and only eight, methods to get rid of a behavior you don't want. Mark: Only eight? I feel like I've tried at least a hundred, and most of them involve some form of exasperated sighing. Michelle: Exasperated sighing is probably not on the list! And what's brilliant is that the most effective methods are the ones we rarely think of. We all default to Method 2, which is Punishment. We yell, we scold, we take away privileges. Pryor argues this is often the least effective method. It creates fear, resentment, and it doesn't teach the subject what you do want them to do. Mark: And it often doesn't work. The kid just gets better at not getting caught. Michelle: Exactly. So let's skip the obvious ones and go to the really clever stuff. My favorite is Method 6: Put the behavior on cue. Mark: Put the bad behavior... on cue? You mean, train the dog to bark on command? That sounds like the opposite of what I want. Michelle: It sounds completely backward, but it's genius. She tells this incredible story from her time at Sea Life Park. She was trying to train a dolphin named Makua to wear these soft rubber blindfolds for an echolocation experiment. Makua hated them. Every time he saw the blindfolds, he'd sink to the bottom of the tank and just lie there. Mark: The dolphin equivalent of hiding under the bed. Michelle: Totally. And she couldn't force a 600-pound dolphin to do anything. So, what did she do? The next time he sank to the bottom, she blew her whistle—the signal for 'correct!'—and gave him a handful of fish. Mark: She rewarded him for misbehaving! This is breaking my brain. Michelle: The dolphin was stunned! It blew what she called a "surprise bubble," which is apparently dolphin for "Huh?" But he came up and ate his fish. Pretty soon, he was sinking on purpose to get reinforced. Then, she added the next step. She introduced a cue, an underwater sound, and would only reward him for sinking after he heard the sound. Mark: Oh, I see where this is going. Michelle: Within a few sessions, he learned to only sink when he heard the cue. And in the absence of the cue? He stopped doing it altogether. The problem behavior was gone. She could then go back to the blindfold training, and he accepted it without a problem. By putting the unwanted behavior under stimulus control, she made it extinguish itself. Mark: That is brilliant. It's like you're using reverse psychology on the behavior itself. So for my barking dog, I would... teach him to 'speak' on command, and then just never give the command? Michelle: That's the principle! It's one of the most elegant and humane ways to solve a problem. You're not fighting the behavior; you're co-opting it. Another one I love is Method 8: Change the motivation. This is often the kindest and simplest solution. Mark: Okay, give me an example. Michelle: Think of the classic toddler tantrum in the supermarket. The kid is screaming, the parent is mortified, everyone is staring. The parent's instinct is to punish or hiss "Stop it!" But what's the real motivation? The kid isn't evil. The kid is probably hungry, tired, and overwhelmed by all the sights and smells of food they can't have. Mark: Right. Their little lizard brain has taken over. Michelle: So the solution isn't discipline. The solution is to change the motivation. Give the kid a snack before you go into the store. The motivation for the tantrum—hunger—is gone. The problem never even starts. It's about looking past the annoying behavior and asking, "What is this person or animal actually trying to get? What need is not being met?" Mark: That requires a lot more empathy than just yelling. You have to be a bit of a detective. Michelle: You do. And that's the core of the whole philosophy. It's about being smarter, not harsher. It's about understanding the laws of behavior and using them creatively. Now, she does list some pretty harsh methods, too. Method 1 is literally "Shoot the animal." Mark: Whoa, okay. That's... blunt. I'm guessing she's not a fan of that one. Michelle: Not at all. She includes it to be comprehensive, to show the full spectrum of what people do. Her point is that it's a valid option in some extreme cases—like a dangerously aggressive animal—but it teaches the subject absolutely nothing. It's an admission of failure. Her entire book is an argument for choosing from the other seven methods first. It's a plea to be trainers, not executioners. Mark: It's a powerful way to frame it. You have this whole toolkit of creative, positive solutions. Why would you ever reach for the bluntest, most destructive instrument? Michelle: And that's the question she leaves you with. It applies to how we manage employees, how we talk to our partners, how we parent our children, and even how we manage ourselves.

Mark: So it all comes back to the same fundamental idea. Stop focusing on what's wrong and start building what's right. It’s not about control; it’s about communication. It's about being a good, clear teacher. Michelle: Exactly. And that's why this book, which was first published decades ago, feels more relevant than ever. Pryor said reinforcement is information. It's a clean, clear signal that tells the learner, 'That thing you just did? That worked.' It gives them agency. It’s not manipulation; it's a conversation. Mark: A conversation where you're both trying to figure out how to succeed. That's a much healthier way to look at any relationship, really. You're not adversaries. You're partners in a game. Michelle: And a curious thing happens when you use this method. Pryor notes that training by reinforcement breeds affection—in both the trainer and the trainee. When you're constantly looking for the good in someone, catching them doing something right, you start to see them differently. And they, in turn, feel seen and understood. The whole dynamic shifts from conflict to camaraderie. Mark: That's a pretty profound takeaway. You're not just changing behavior; you're changing the emotional climate of the entire relationship. Michelle: You are. So here's a challenge for everyone listening. For the next week, try this: Pick one tiny, annoying habit in your life—a roommate leaving their mug out, a partner forgetting to turn off a light, anything. Instead of nagging or sighing, just wait. And the one time they do put the mug away or flick the switch, catch them in that instant and give a genuine, immediate 'Hey, thanks so much for that.' Don't make a big deal out of it. Just a simple, well-timed reinforcer. Mark: And see what happens. I'm genuinely curious to try that. And we want to hear your stories! We're curious to hear your own 'dolphin training' experiments. Find us on our socials and share what you discover. Michelle: This is Aibrary, signing off.