Michelle: Alright, Mark, pop quiz. Your heart is pounding, you can't breathe, the room is spinning. What's the absolute worst thing you could possibly do? Because according to our book today, that's exactly what you should do. Mark: Let's see. The worst thing? Probably stand up on a chair and start singing opera. Or maybe challenge the biggest person in the room to a fight. I'm guessing the answer is something counterintuitive. Michelle: You have no idea. The answer is to look that feeling dead in the eye and say, "Give me more." Mark: Come on. You want me to ask for a second helping of a panic attack? That sounds like the worst advice in human history. What book is suggesting this madness? Michelle: The book is DARE: The New Way to Break Free from Anxiety and Panic Attacks by Barry McDonagh. And what’s fascinating is that McDonagh isn't some detached academic theorist; he developed this entire method after his own life-altering panic attack in a church when he was just 18. It left him terrified and housebound. Mark: Oh, I see. So this came directly from his own rock bottom. That definitely adds some weight to it. It’s not a theory from an ivory tower; it’s a survival guide from the trenches. Michelle: Exactly. He had to find a way out because the conventional wisdom wasn't working. And the way out he found is, as you noted, profoundly counterintuitive. It starts with that terrifying command to lean in.

Mark: Okay, I’m still stuck on this. ‘Run toward’ the fire. My entire nervous system, my entire evolutionary history, is screaming at me to run away. How can fighting that instinct possibly be the right move? Michelle: Well, to understand the logic, you have to understand the experience that birthed it. Let’s go back to that Sunday afternoon in Dublin. Barry McDonagh is 18, he’s in a church, a bit hungover from celebrating his final exams. He's just sitting there. Mark: A classic setting for divine intervention, or in this case, something else entirely. Michelle: Something else entirely. Suddenly, his heart starts hammering against his ribs. He can’t catch his breath. His hands and feet are tingling with pins and needles. His first thought, the one that kicks everything into overdrive, is "I'm having a heart attack." Mark: And that thought is the fuel. That’s the spark that turns a weird physical sensation into pure terror. Michelle: Precisely. That one thought spiked his anxiety into a full-blown panic attack. He does what any of us would do—he bolts. He rushes outside, gasping for air. The physical feelings lessen for a second, but then a second wave of panic hits him, even harder this time. He’s looking around for help, but everyone is avoiding eye contact. He feels completely, terrifyingly alone. Mark: That’s a nightmare. The feeling of being in mortal danger while the world just walks by. I can feel the desperation in that. Michelle: He eventually makes it home and essentially hides for days, trapped in a state of high general anxiety, punctuated by more panic attacks. He’s caught in a loop: he feels a strange sensation, he fears it’s a sign of impending doom, that fear creates more sensations, which validates the initial fear. It’s a perfect, self-sustaining cycle of terror. Mark: So how does he break it? Michelle: The breakthrough comes one evening. He has this flash of insight where he sees the whole mechanism clearly. He realizes he's been fueling the fire with his own reactions. The problem wasn't the initial bodily sensation; the problem was his terrified response to the sensation. Mark: He was afraid of the fear itself. Michelle: Exactly. And this is the absolute core of the DARE response. The acronym stands for Defuse, Allow, Run Toward, and Engage. And that 'R' for 'Run Toward' is the circuit breaker. Instead of running away from the pounding heart, you mentally turn toward it and say, "Okay, is that all you've got? Hit me harder. If I'm going to have a heart attack, let's get it over with." Mark: Wait, so you’re literally taunting your own anxiety? That takes an incredible amount of courage. It feels like staring down a charging bull and instead of jumping out of the way, you just… stand there and yell at it. Michelle: It’s the ultimate bluff-call. Because as the book explains, anxiety’s power is an illusion. A quote that really captures this is, "Recovery lies in the midst of all the sensations you dread the most." The panic attack feels dangerous, but it isn't. It's just an adrenaline rush. An incredibly uncomfortable one, but not a fatal one. By demanding more, you expose the illusion. You show your nervous system that there is no real threat. The bull is just a shadow. Mark: So the act of running toward it is what proves it's not real. You’re short-circuiting the feedback loop. The fear expects you to run, and when you don't, the whole program crashes. Michelle: That's the idea. You shatter the illusion of fear that holds you captive. It’s a radical re-tooling of your response system.

Mark: Okay, 'running toward' sounds like the emergency glass to break in case of a five-alarm panic attack. It's an intense, active strategy. But what about the other 99% of the time? The constant, simmering, low-grade anxiety that so many people live with. That feels like a different beast entirely. You can't be taunting your anxiety all day long. Michelle: That’s a perfect pivot, because it brings us to the real foundation of the whole method. 'Run Toward' is the tactic, but the underlying strategy is 'A' for 'Allow'. This is the quieter, more profound part of the practice. Mark: What does 'Allow' actually mean in this context? Does it just mean giving up and letting anxiety walk all over you? Michelle: It’s the opposite of giving up. It’s about dropping the resistance. McDonagh tells a great story about a well-known TV presenter who was secretly plagued by the fear of having a panic attack live on air. Every day, he'd go into the studio, plaster on a huge smile, and act like the most confident man in the world. He kept it a secret for years, even from his wife. Mark: He was leading a double life. Outwardly successful, inwardly terrified. That sounds exhausting. Michelle: Unbelievably exhausting. He was spending all of his energy resisting the anxiety, fighting it, hiding it. That resistance is like being in a constant tug-of-war. 'Allowing' is simply dropping the rope. You let the anxious thoughts and feelings be there. You don't have to like them, you don't have to agree with them, but you stop fighting them. Mark: So it’s a kind of radical acceptance. It’s like having a really annoying roommate. You don’t have to be best friends, but you stop trying to kick them out of the house every five minutes and just let them be there, making their noise in the other room. Michelle: That's a great analogy. And the book uses this beautiful quote: "We are transformed by what we accept." The moment you stop fighting, the nervous system gets a chance to unwind. Another quote he uses is, "Attend and befriend your fear." You treat it with a kind of detached curiosity, not judgment. You observe the waves of anxiety rising and falling without getting swept away by them. Mark: That makes sense, but it also sounds incredibly difficult. To feel that wave of dread rising and to consciously choose not to brace against it… that’s a huge mental shift. Michelle: It is. It's a practice. But the key insight is that your resistance is what gives the anxiety its power. By allowing it, you're not saying it's okay or that you want it. You're just acknowledging that it's there, and that you are not your anxiety. It's a temporary weather pattern passing through, not the climate of your entire being. This helps you detach and reduces the shame and self-criticism that so often make anxiety worse. Mark: I can see how that would be freeing. You’re taking away its significance. It’s just a feeling, not a prophecy of doom. Michelle: Exactly. You normalize it. And in doing so, you rob it of its terrifying, larger-than-life status.

Michelle: And this whole philosophy of accepting and floating through fear, of running toward it… it feels so powerful and modern. It’s resonated with hundreds of thousands of people. The book is a massive bestseller, highly rated everywhere. But this is also where the claim on the cover, "The New Way," gets a little... complicated. Mark: Hold on. What do you mean complicated? It sounds pretty revolutionary to me. Michelle: Well, as I was digging into the book's reception, a fascinating point of criticism kept coming up. Many people have pointed out that the DARE method is incredibly, almost uncannily, similar to the work of an Australian doctor named Claire Weekes, who wrote her seminal book, Hope and Help for Your Nerves, back in 1962. Mark: Wait, 1962? So you're saying the "New Way" might actually be a 60-year-old way? Michelle: That's the heart of the controversy. Dr. Weekes' method was famously summarized as: Face, Accept, Float, and Let Time Pass. You can see the parallels immediately. Face is like 'Run Toward.' Accept is like 'Allow.' The core principles are virtually identical. Critics argue that DARE is essentially a repackaging of Weekes' work for a modern, digital audience, without giving her the primary credit. Mark: Okay, that’s a serious charge in the world of ideas. Is he just ripping her off? I mean, that changes how I see the book. It feels less like a personal breakthrough and more like a clever branding exercise. Michelle: I think that's a valid reaction. And it's a debate worth having. On one hand, the lack of prominent attribution to Weekes is a legitimate point of criticism. It’s not a groundbreaking academic work introducing a novel theory. However, on the other hand, you have to look at the impact. Mark: What do you mean? Michelle: McDonagh took these ideas, simplified the language, created a memorable acronym, and built an entire ecosystem around it with an app, audio guides, and coaching. He made it incredibly accessible. Dr. Weekes' work is brilliant, but her language can feel a bit dated to a 21st-century reader. McDonagh translated it. Mark: So the question becomes, what's more valuable? The original invention or the effective translation that actually reaches people? It’s like the person who invents a life-saving drug versus the person who figures out how to manufacture it cheaply and distribute it globally. Michelle: Exactly. Is McDonagh an innovator or a brilliant communicator? Maybe he's both. He took a powerful, timeless wisdom that was perhaps gathering dust and put it into a format that could go viral in the age of the smartphone. Hundreds of thousands of people who had never heard of Claire Weekes found relief through DARE. Does the source matter more than the result? Mark: That’s a tough question. I think it’s fair to want the original creator to get their due, but you also can't deny the good that's been done. Maybe the real "new way" isn't the idea itself, but the method of delivery. Michelle: I think that's a very insightful way to look at it. The genius might lie in the packaging and the accessibility, which in the self-help world, is often the difference between a book that's respected and a book that actually changes lives.

Mark: Wow. So whether it's a new invention or a brilliant remix, the core message is a radical one: stop fighting. It reminds me of that famous Joseph Campbell quote the book uses: "The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek." The path to recovery isn't away from the fear, but straight through the heart of it. Michelle: That's the entire philosophy in a nutshell. You have to go to the place you dread the most to find your freedom. And it’s not about being fearless; it’s about changing your relationship with fear. It’s about courage, not the absence of anxiety. Mark: It’s a profound shift. From seeing anxiety as an enemy to be vanquished to seeing it as a misguided friend to be understood and calmed. Michelle: And maybe the single takeaway for anyone listening, the one thing to try, is just a small experiment in 'allowing'. The next time a wave of anxiety hits—whether it's a small worry or a big jolt—instead of instinctively bracing against it, just for a second, try whispering "whatever" to it. Mark: Just a simple, dismissive "whatever." I like that. It’s not a big, scary confrontation. It’s a small act of dropping the rope. Michelle: Exactly. Don't fight it, don't analyze it, just let it be there and see what happens. It's a tiny step, but it's a step toward that cave. Mark: It’s a powerful and deeply personal topic. And we know a lot of our listeners deal with this. We'd love to hear your thoughts on this approach. Does the idea of 'running toward' fear resonate with you, or does it sound terrifying? Find us on our socials and let us know. Michelle: This is Aibrary, signing off.