Alex: Hey everyone, welcome to the show! Let’s jump right in with a question: Have you ever looked back at a decision you made five years ago and thought, “Wow, who “was” that person?” Or maybe you ever wonder if future-you is going to look back at “today-you” and just cringe? That slightly uneasy feeling, that gap between who we were, who we are, and who we're going to become... that’s exactly what we're talking about today. Michelle: Right, because apparently future-me is supposed to have everything figured out, meanwhile present-me can’t even decide what to have for dinner. So, if you can relate to that constant back-and-forth between enjoying the present and planning for the future, hang in there. This is for you. Alex: We're tackling this really interesting idea through the lens of a book that just might change how you see yourself over time. It really breaks down this concept of "mental time travel"—basically, how we connect emotionally and cognitively with our future selves. You know, that version of you thirty years from now who you hope is enjoying a fantastic retirement and perfect health, but whom you might feel strangely detached from right now. Michelle: And let’s not forget all the ways your brain actively works against those plans. Projection bias, procrastination, plain old avoidance. The usual suspects! Alex: Exactly! But the book isn’t just about pointing out the problem. It's also full of actionable strategies—visualization exercises, commitment tools—it’s really about building a bridge between the decisions we make today and the goals we have for the future. Michelle: Which brings us to what we’re doing today. First, we'll explore how our identity isn't as fixed as we think – it’s constantly shifting. Then we’re going to dig into how the way you see your future self can literally make or break decisions around things like money and health. And finally, we'll unpack a bunch of helpful tools to help align who you are now with who you want to be later. Kind of like… holding hands across time, if you will. Alex: Nice one, Michelle. Or… you could just call it "the art of not messing it up for your future self." Either way, we're about to get into how to strike that tricky balance between really savoring right now and building a better future. Ready? Let’s do it!

Alex: So, Michelle, let's dive right in—identity. Are we fundamentally the same person our whole lives, or do we evolve into someone completely different? Philosophers like David Hume and Derek Parfit certainly had some strong opinions on this. Michelle: Yeah, that's the million-dollar question, isn't it? This should be interesting. Alex: Absolutely. Hume, for instance, argued that the self isn't a solid, unchanging thing, but rather—wait for it—a "bundle of perceptions." Think of your identity as this constantly changing collection of memories, experiences, and sensations. He even compared it to a river. It looks the same at a glance, but the water is always moving, always changing. Michelle: A river, huh? That's a great image. Constantly flowing, constantly changing. But doesn't that make things complicated? If we are just a bundle of perceptions, how do we even know who "we" are? Doesn't identity get lost in the current? Alex: That's where Derek Parfit comes in, with his idea of psychological continuity. Instead of a fixed "self," he focuses on the connections between our past, present, and future selves—shared memories, values, intentions, things like that. Parfit argues that identity doesn't have to be perfectly cohesive; it's more like a web of connections evolving over time. Even if some of the threads change, the web as a whole stays intact. Michelle: So, like a ship that gets new planks over time, but everyone still calls it the same ship? We might not be exactly the same person, but there's enough overlap to keep us, well, “us”. I guess. Alex: Exactly. And it raises such a fascinating question... Are you the same person you were, say, five years ago, even if your views or priorities have changed? That's why I love how these ideas connect with real life. Take Pedro Rodrigues Filho, for example—a man whose sense of self transformed in this unbelievable way. Michelle: Ah, yes, "Pedrinho Matador." What a story. Listeners might not know him, so let's lay out the story, because it’s as gripping as it is thought-provoking. Alex: Born in 1954 in Brazil, Filho became one of the country's most notorious criminals. Violence ran through his entire life. He committed multiple murders and seemed destined to be this static figure of chaos. But then, while in prison, something incredible happened—he started re-evaluating himself. Michelle: And what changed for him? How does someone go from that level of violence to rethinking not just their actions but their whole identity? Alex: Two key factors actually—self-reflection and the power of education. In prison, he faced a situation where reflection became unavoidable. Combined with access to educational resources, Filho began to understand the harm he had caused. Over time, this led to genuine remorse and a conscious effort to change. It was like he rebuilt the bridge to his future self, plank by plank. Michelle: Listening to that, it's like Filho embodies Parfit's idea of psychological continuity. His past self—the violent and destructive version—didn't disappear completely. Instead, it became a vital part of the narrative that enabled him to change. But wow, that kind of change is a lot to take in. How do we even begin to reconcile that with who he was before? Alex: That's the beauty of these philosophical ideas, Michelle. Filho's underlying capacity for agency and introspection, even if dormant at first, served as the connecting thread. It's not about pretending his past didn't exist, but about showing that identity isn't fixed. The traumatic river of his early years still influenced his actions, but new waters started flowing—waters shaped by learning and regret. Michelle: That's just mind-blowing, really. So, someone like Filho, once labeled irredeemable, shifts his sense of self. But what about the other side? What happens when someone refuses to connect with their future self? Can that disconnect mess with how they make choices? Alex: Absolutely. This brings us into how this philosophical understanding relates to real-world decision-making, especially in areas like health and finances. If you don't feel connected to future-you, you're less likely to make sacrifices now to benefit them later. It's like, why save for retirement if future-you feels like a stranger? Michelle: Right. Reminds me of people who say, "That's future-me's problem," as if future-you is…I don’t know, someone you’re vaguely annoyed with and don't want to help. Alex: Exactly! We can all relate to that feeling, but it's also something we can work to change. Philosophers like Hume and Parfit help us see that while identity evolves, those threads of continuity are always there. When you consciously recognize that future-you is just another version of present-you, you're more likely to make decisions that benefit both of you. Bridging that gap makes your future feel real, tangible, and worth investing in.

Alex: Okay, Michelle, so this is fascinating, right? All this research is showing just how disconnected we can feel from our future selves. It's not just philosophy anymore; science is really backing this up. Michelle: Right, it's not just some airy-fairy concept. There's actual data showing this? Alex: Absolutely. Studies have shown that people often perceive their future selves as totally different individuals, almost like strangers. One experiment I read about really stood out—they used brain imaging and found that the same areas of the brain that light up when we think about other people also light up when we think about our future selves. I mean, how crazy is that? Michelle: Wait a minute. So, subconsciously, we're filing "future me" under "someone else"? That's wild. No wonder I keep putting off flossing. Alex: Exactly! It's wild, but it explains so much about how we handle—or, let's be honest, avoid handling—future plans. Remember that college student retirement savings study we read about? Most of those students prioritized eating out or entertainment over saving for their future selves. It's not that they're irresponsible; it's that they didn't really see "future them" as someone worth sacrificing for. Michelle: It’s like… you're treating future-you like that freeloading roommate who never does the dishes. Why save if you don't even like the guy? Alex: Exactly. And that disconnect then spirals into everything—finance, health, even emotional well-being. If you can’t empathize with future-you, it creates this vacuum where immediate gratification always wins. So the challenge is reinforcing that connection, so future-you starts to feel like someone you “care” about. Michelle: So how do we bridge that gap? Let's say I'm fresh out of college again. Should I be sitting down with "future-Michelle" for a coffee and hashing out our five-year goals or something? Alex: In a way, yes! Researchers have developed some really cool methods to help people visualize their future selves. Virtual reality and digital simulations are particularly intriguing. For instance, in one study, participants interacted with aged-up images of themselves. And guess what? Those who saw their older selves were significantly more inclined to plan for long-term goals like, you know, retirement. Just seeing a concrete image of what your life might look like in 30 or 40 years can dramatically shift how you prioritize today's decisions. Michelle: It's like, oh, hey, future-me isn't just some hypothetical ghost. He's a real dude saying, "Hey, buddy, throw me a bone here—save 10 bucks and skip the extra guac." Alex: Exactly! But visualization is only one piece of the puzzle. Tools like commitment devices are another effective strategy. These are systems you set up to lock yourself into good behavior. A common example is apps like Stickk, where you put money on the line, and you lose it if you don’t hit your goals. It forces you to put skin in the game for your future self, which can be highly motivating. Michelle: Oh, I've heard about those! Isn't there one where if you don't follow through, they send the money to an organization you hate? Like a... "motivational enemy"? Tell me more about it. Alex: Yes, exactly! It’s a bit extreme for some people, but it works by turning the stakes up. And in a really odd way, it almost forces you to collaborate with your future self. You make a deal—present-you commits, future-you reaps the benefits. It’s basically a psychological handshake. Michelle: Yeah, so it flips the dynamic, right? Instead of "future-you will fix the mess I'm making today," it becomes "present-me will invest in making future-me's life easier." But you know what still trips me up? The "vampire" decisions, as Laurie Paul calls them—those massive, irreversible life changes. How are we supposed to plan for a version of ourselves we can't even fathom yet? Alex: Ah, the vampire metaphor. Such a perfect way of capturing those decisions that totally transform you. Paul’s point is that when we’re on the cusp of transformative life changes—like becoming a parent, moving abroad, or changing careers—we can’t truly know what life on the other side of the decision will be like. It’s unknown territory. Michelle: Right, but doesn't that make it terrifying? The idea that no matter how much I plan, I still won't know if my "post-vampire" self will thank me. What's supposed to guide those decisions if you're essentially stepping into the dark? Alex: That’s where trust in your capacity for evolution comes into play. Paul’s metaphor isn’t just about the fear of the unknown—it’s also about leaning into the inevitability of change. Think of it like skydiving. At some point, you realize you can’t predict exactly how the dive will feel, but you take the leap anyway and rely on the parachute—your values, your instincts, and adaptability. Michelle: So, knowing that we're always adapting, that kind of gives us the confidence to make the leap. Hmmm... I guess it's less about predicting happiness and more about seeing transformation as just part of life's design. Alex: Precisely. And it all circles us back to the continuity of identity. Even if big decisions reshape you, the core threads—your values, your ability to reflect—serve as your anchor. You're not leaping into a void; you're leaping into a future built on the foundations of what you've already shaped. Michelle: I like that. It means future-me isn’t some random stranger. He’s built from the best parts of present-me… plus, maybe, a little help from VR, a few skipped guacs, and a commitment device or two.

Alex: So, recognizing how tough it is to connect with our future selves really opens the door to finding some practical solutions, doesn’t it? Which brings us to the heart of today: alignment strategies. These are real, usable tools that help us sync our current actions with our future goals. We're talking about building a bridge, not a gaping hole, between who we are now and who we want to become. Michelle: Exactly. And we’re going to break down these strategies in a structured way. First, visualization – actually seeing your future self. Then, we’ll look at how virtual reality can throw you right into future scenarios. After that, it’s down to business with commitment devices. Oh, and a little heads-up, we'll wrap things up with something that makes those everyday chores a little less painful: temptation bundling. Sound like a plan? Alex: Sounds great. Let's dive into visualization. I find this fascinating because it directly impacts how we picture the future in our minds. One particularly interesting method is using age-progressed images. Imagine seeing a digitally enhanced photo of yourself at, say, 70. Studies show this simple exercise creates an emotional bond with your future self, making long-term goals feel way more real and urgent. Michelle: So, instead of just thinking about some hazy "older me," you're actually staring him – or her – right in the face. Like, "Hey, don't forget about me! I'm out here waiting for you to make some smart choices now." Alex: Precisely! There's this real, visceral impact when you actually visualize your future self. There was even an experiment where people interacted with these aged-up images. Those who saw older, frailer versions of themselves were far more motivated to make healthier choices – like exercising or eating better – and even to prioritize retirement savings. Seeing the difference between their current life and a potential future really drove that motivation. Michelle: It's pretty wild that a photo can do all that. But, Alex, let's be real. What if you're just not a visual person? What if you look at that age-progressed photo and think, "Okay, cool, but what does that have to do with me choosing between Netflix and the gym right now?" Alex: That’s a valid point, which is where innovative tools like VR come in. Virtual reality takes visualization to a whole new level by making it interactive. Imagine putting on a VR headset and actually experiencing a day in the life of your future self. You could walk through your future retirement home – or the lack thereof – and directly experience the consequences of past financial or health choices. It's emotional, visceral, and super effective at closing that psychological gap. Michelle: Okay, so I could meet future-Michelle in VR, either chilling because I stuck to the plan, or completely stressed because I didn't. That's intense. But does this actually work, or is it just a fun gimmick? Alex: It really does work. One study showed that people who had this kind of immersive VR experience were far more likely to commit to long-term financial planning afterwards. When you actually see and feel the outcome of your decisions – like, a poor future versus a comfortable one – it hits home in a way that's hard to ignore. Michelle: Okay, I get the impact. It's like those "choose your own adventure" books, but with the added bonus of feeling the consequences in 3D. But what happens when willpower just… isn't there? Like, you know what you should do, but you just can't make it happen? Alex: That's where commitment devices come into play. These are external tools or systems designed to keep you on track when your inner motivation falters. Take SEED accounts, for example. These are savings accounts that you start with a deposit and then keep adding to. The trick is, the money is locked in for a specific purpose, like education or buying a home. This essentially forces you to save without giving in to the urge to spend. Michelle: So, it's like putting the cookie jar on a shelf where only future-you can reach it? That's clever! But I bet there's a catch. What if, halfway through, someone decides, "You know what? I'd rather blow it all on a vacation?" Alex: That's the beauty of SEED accounts – they're designed to prevent exactly that. They come with restrictions that only allow you to withdraw funds for specific uses. And because the money is tied to meaningful goals, the psychological effect is pretty powerful. People often say they feel more in control of their financial future because these accounts force them to stick to their commitment. Michelle: And what about people who aren't ready for something as heavy-duty as a SEED account? What's a smaller, more manageable version of the same idea? Alex: Platforms like Stickk.com offer a simpler alternative. Here's how it works: you set a goal – whether it's exercising, quitting smoking, or saving money – and then you attach a financial penalty to failing. The kicker? You can choose to send that penalty money to a charity you absolutely hate. The sting of losing money to something you actively dislike becomes a surprisingly strong motivator to stay on track. Michelle: So, it's reverse-engineered guilt, basically. Instead of feeling guilty for skipping the gym, you're proactively avoiding the guilt by sticking to your commitment. But, doesn't that feel a bit… extreme? Alex: It can feel intense, but that's kind of the point. For those whose immediate desires tend to overpower long-term planning, these types of stakes create a sense of accountability. It's about creating a system that aligns with your specific motivational triggers. Michelle: This is starting to feel like a life toolbox. Visualization? Got it. VR immersion? Brilliant. Commitment devices? Check. But there's also that little issue of everyday tasks. How do you make the boring stuff more bearable without losing sight of the bigger picture? Alex: That's where temptation bundling comes in. It's where you pair something you should do with something you want to do. So, say you find working out boring, but you can’t enough of that true-crime podcast? You only let yourself listen to it while you’re on the treadmill. And just like that, an obligation turns into a reward. Michelle: I like that! It's like sneaking spinach into a smoothie. You're technically doing something good for yourself, but it tastes like dessert. Are there studies on this? Alex: Absolutely. In one study, for example, students were told they could only watch their favorite TV shows while studying. Results showed increased productivity as well as fewer negative feelings about doing the work. The pairing turned studying from a chore into something they looked forward to. It’s simple and effective. Michelle: So, instead of relying on sheer willpower, you trick your brain into thinking it's getting a treat while also getting things done. Ingenious. Alex: And that’s what’s so remarkable about all these strategies. They start with our tendency to put short-term rewards first, but instead of fighting it, they find creative ways to work with it. Visualize the future, immerse yourself emotionally through VR, lock in commitments, and make daily life more enjoyable. When put together, it offers a great way to close the gap between who you are and who you want to be.

Alex: Okay, so today we really dove deep into this fascinating relationship between our past, present, and future selves. It's all about how our identity is constantly changing, right? We saw it in those philosophical ideas from people like Hume and Parfit, and even in extreme real-life stories, like that of Pedro Rodrigues Filho. Michelle: Yeah, and we looked at that weird relationship we have with our future selves. That psychological distance, right? Almost like future-me is this stranger who's either going to suffer the consequences or magically figure everything out. From those brain scans to Laurie Paul's vampire example, it's clear that connecting with future-you is a real challenge. Alex: Exactly! But it's not all bad news. We also talked about some real-world ways to connect what we do today with what we want tomorrow, like visualization, VR, or even commitment tools like those SEED accounts or temptation bundling. Michelle: Right. And the key takeaway is: progress, not perfection. Connecting with your future self doesn't mean having all the answers right now. It's just about taking those initial baby steps to get there. Alex: Exactly. So, here's something to think about: what's one small thing you can do today to invest in the person you'll be in five, ten, or even thirty years? Remember, future-you isn't some random person, it's still “you”, just further down the road. Michelle: And if it takes a little VR or skipping the extra guac to make it happen, hey, future-you just might thank you for it someday. So until next time, keep on building that bridge!