Roger: Hey everyone, welcome back! Today we're tackling a topic that feels super relevant: navigating those careers that aren't exactly a straight shot. You know, where promotions aren't guaranteed and "success" can look… well, pretty different than you imagined. Patricia: Exactly! Let’s be real, who “actually” has a linear career path anymore? Feels like most of us are wandering through a maze where the exit keeps moving. Roger: Totally! And that's where The Squiggly Career comes in. The whole premise is rethinking career growth in this unpredictable world. Forget climbing one giant ladder – it’s about embracing the “squiggles,” those zigzags that let you grow sideways, upwards, even when you don’t have a ten-year plan. Patricia: Okay, wait, so it’s advocating for complete, total chaos? Or is there a method to this "squiggle" madness? Roger: There's “definitely” a method! The authors lay out five essential skills – think of them as your toolkit for the squiggly maze. You've got: honing your super strengths, nailing down your values, building your confidence, expanding your network, and exploring future possibilities. Each one is key to making your career feel meaningful and rewarding. Patricia: A toolkit, eh? Doesn’t come with a guarantee of a corner office, I imagine. Roger: I wish! But it “does” give you practical strategies. Like, understanding what actually motivates you, dealing with uncertainty, and building stronger connections. Plus, it dives into those common career hurdles, like work-life balance, finding awesome mentors, even stepping into leadership. Patricia: Sounds like a blend of inspiration and a dose of reality, which I appreciate. So, today we're going to break it down in three parts. First, the whole idea of squiggly careers and why it matters. Then, those five core skills you mentioned. And finally, how to handle those sticky challenges that come up in modern working life. Sounds like a plan? Roger: Perfect! Think of it as turning career chaos into your personal strategy for success. Ready to dive in? Patricia: Let's get squiggling.

Roger: Okay, so let's dive into the core idea—this “squiggly career” concept. It's a pretty radical shift from the old idea of climbing a career ladder, right? I mean, for ages, the ideal career was this super linear thing: entry-level, then mid-management, senior leadership. Maybe same company, same industry, even the same job title, just with fancier add-ons over time. Patricia: Yeah, that whole "put your head down, work hard, and move up" model. Very neat, almost…comfortingly predictable. Except nowadays, it just doesn’t quite work anymore. Between tech, generational shifts, just changing expectations overall, how many people even want to stay in one lane for thirty years, let alone expect to? Roger: Precisely. And that’s where the squiggly career comes in. It acknowledges that modern careers aren’t straight, upward climbs, you know? It's more like a dynamic, zigzagging journey. Sometimes you're sidestepping, sometimes pivoting, and sometimes even taking what looks like steps backward, but really it's to realign with what really matters to you. Patricia: Okay, so “squiggly” is just a fun way of saying “messy” then? Or is there an actual strategy behind bouncing from role to role - like a pinball? Roger: There's absolutely strategy. If you approach it intentionally, at least. That's the crux of the whole concept. Instead of blindly following some predefined path, you actually take ownership of your own career. It’s about aligning your work with your strengths, your values, your personal aspirations. Even if it looks a bit unconventional. Let’s face it, career success isn’t just about fancy titles or salaries anymore. People are looking for purpose. Patricia: “Purpose” is all well and good, but let’s also talk about survival – like keeping my job amid tech advancements or shifts in the market. I get the vibe of exploring diverse paths. Sounds nice, but what happens if one of those twists in the squiggle leads to a dead end? Roger: That's definitely a valid point. And that's where adaptability is so key. The authors of The Squiggly Career point out that we're dealing with a workforce that’s constantly evolving, right? Think about technological disruption–automation, AI. Entire jobs in stable industries are being replaced or reshaped completely. Patricia: Yeah, classic example: bank tellers. A lot of what they used to do is handled by ATMs or online banking. And now, even software developers have to keep learning new coding languages every couple of years just to stay relevant. So, the old "pick a career and stick with it" model doesn't really hold up. Roger: Exactly. Instead of sticking with one narrow skill set, professionals today need to embrace continuous learning. Staying curious, open, and always ready to pivot. The book actually mentions that seeing every twist and turn not as a setback, but as an opportunity to grow, is crucial in a squiggly career. It's less about "secure roles" and more about being secure in your ability to adapt. Patricia: That makes sense. But something I do find fascinating – and maybe a little frustrating – is how generational priorities play into this. You’ve got Baby Boomers who worked for stability and pensions, while younger generations, especially Millennials and Gen Z, are all about flexibility and fulfillment. If companies aren’t defining neat career pathways anymore, the pressure shifts to the individual to figure everything out themselves. Which sounds empowering, sure, but also... like a lot. Roger: It's true, it is a lot, but it's also why identifying your personal drivers is more important than ever. Like, if a Millennial values experiential learning, they may choose to move laterally across industries or roles, even if it doesn’t look like “progression” in the traditional sense. Or a Gen Z professional, who prioritizes work-life balance and hybrid work options, may build their career to blend flexibility with purpose-driven work. It's about figuring out your unique goals, and building a path around that. Patricia: So notice the common thread here: choice. The squiggly career doesn’t just happen. It takes real self-awareness and active decision-making. And there’s this cultural shift in how we define work, ya know? It’s not just about clocking in and earning a paycheck anymore. It's about meaning – whether that’s the impact of your work, or how it fits with your life. Roger: Totally. And that's exactly what fuels the move away from the traditional ladder model. The "why" behind work has “really” evolved. People want roles that align with their values—and I mean, like, deeply align. They’re asking questions like: Does this work resonate with who I am? Am I making a meaningful contribution? And that’s why our careers today are so much more personalized. Patricia: Which, all well and good — until your personal ideal runs into reality. Like remote work, for example. Sure, it's amazing that we’ve now got the freedom to work from just about anywhere, but it also makes work feel like it's... everywhere. Now, instead of neat boundaries, we’ve got pop-up alerts at dinner reminding us about deadlines. How’s anyone supposed to squiggle their way to balance with that? Roger: Yeah, that's where self-awareness really comes into play. Recognizing what you need – not just professionally, but personally – is “really” essential. Whether it’s setting boundaries, managing "always-on" pressures, or even aligning with an organization that supports your values, you have to be proactive about shaping your career. And that’s where the authors’ emphasis on self-reflection and values alignment becomes so critical. Patricia: So, it's not just about reacting to external changes, but deciding which ones matter to you most... and which ones don’t. Makes sense. The squiggly career isn’t about chaos for its own sake; it’s about crafting something meaningful and sustainable, even if the path to get there is anything but straight. Roger: Exactly! And the beauty of it is, no two squiggly careers look the same. They’re as unique as the people living them. And that’s the strength of this model: It’s adaptable, it's resilient, and deeply personal.

Roger: So, understanding this groundwork really sets the stage, right? Then we can dive into the essential skills you need to “really” kill it in a dynamic job environment. The Squiggly Career authors, they're pretty clear that embracing the non-linear mindset is great, but you also need the tools to navigate, you know? That’s where the five skills come in. Patricia: Right, so we're shifting gears from "Okay, careers are all over the place" to "How do I actually make this work for me?" So these five skills, they're kind of like the user manual, then? Roger: Definitely. They give you a practical framework. Think of them as pillars, each supporting a different aspect of career development and feeling fulfilled. Right? And the skills—super strengths, values, confidence, networks, and future possibilities—they're actionable. They guide individuals to make choices that align with what “really” gets them going, their aspirations. Patricia: Okay, I like that pillar idea. So, alright, let's jump right in. What's number one? Roger: So, the first skill is identifying and using your super strengths. Right? These are the talents you're not just good at, but you genuinely enjoy using. And the key point is, these aren't just general skills like communication. They're the things that make you uniquely effective, uniquely engaged. Patricia: Right, interesting. How do you actually tell the difference between a regular strength and a super strength? I mean, if I say, "Hey, I'm good at organizing," does that count? Or is it more like something that makes you “really” shine? Roger: That's a great question. Super strengths, they're more than just being "good" at something. They're activities that come naturally and make you feel energized. They're what you do better than most and find deeply fulfilling. So to help figure it out, some self-reflection. Ask yourself: What tasks make me lose track of time? When have I felt “really” proud of my accomplishments? You can pair that with outside input, too. Getting feedback from mentors can be “really” eye-opening. Patricia: Yeah, feedback can be a double-edged sword sometimes. Like, someone might tell you, "You're great at event planning," but what if you secretly hate it? You just grin and bear it 'cause it pays the bills. Roger: True, I get that, and that’s why introspection is key. It’s not just about what you’re objectively good at, but finding where skill meets passion. The book actually uses a Peter Drucker quote to highlight this: "You can't build performance on weaknesses. You can build only on strengths." Right? So, once you pinpoint them, you can align your career choices. Patricia: Got any examples from the book to make this more real? You know I'm all about the specifics. Roger: For sure. So, the book talks about Helen. She downplayed her positivity because she thought it wasn’t professional. Her coworkers nicknamed her Tigger because of her energy, and while she was amused, she didn't think of it as a strength. Then she started to see how that positivity helped her motivate others and navigate challenges. She started to see this as a super strength and used it as a foundation to run Amazing If full-time. By embracing what made her effective, it created a career she felt was authentic. Patricia: So it’s less about ticking off boxes of skills and more about discovering, and owning, what makes you unique. Right? Makes you wonder how many people are overlooking their “real” strengths because they don't seem career-worthy. Roger: Exactly, and that’s where “job crafting” can come in handy. You can reshape your role to better highlight your abilities. So, if someone’s good at relationship-building, they could volunteer to lead team collaborations or client-facing projects. Also just side projects, in general, are good avenues. They let you experiment with strengths in new areas, maybe even unveiling new career paths. Patricia: Alright, so it's not waiting for the perfect opportunity, but actively shaping your job or trying new things to show off your strengths. I can see how that's empowering. So, what's next on the list? Roger: The second skill involves your values. So, core beliefs that guide what matters to you. Think of them as your career compass. They navigates decisions and help you make choices that align with who you are. Patricia: Values, huh? So, is that just another way of saying, "Know what you care about"? Or is there something more to it? Roger: There's definitely more to it. Values are more than just abstract concepts. They're “real” principles that shape how you want your work to impact your life. For example, someone who values creativity might look for roles that let them be innovative, and someone who values collab might vibe with team environments. The authors are clear that career satisfaction is connected to these values. Work has to reflect what's meaningful. Patricia: Okay, but let’s say you’ve never thought about your values. I mean, I might say, “I value work-life balance,” but is that just what I think I should say? Right? Or is it “really” my guiding principle? How do you actually figure this stuff out? Roger: Well, the book suggests reflecting on pivotal moments, times you felt fulfilled or times you felt super frustrated in your career. What was motivating your decisions? Journaling, even talking with someone can “really” help dig deeper on this. And keep in mind, values can change. What matters to you at 25 might not matter at 45. So you have to check back in periodically. Patricia: Got it. So it’s not a fixed set of rules, but more like you're recalibrating your internal GPS as things shift. Seems useful for avoiding those career moves that look amazing on paper, but make you miserable in reality. Roger: Seriously. Here's a good example: If someone values work-life balance, they might pass on a high-paying role, even if it feels like a natural “step up.” They're choosing alignment versus that external validation, helping them find happiness in the long run. Patricia: Makes sense. And I bet values become “really” important during those "rebel" phases the authors mention, when you're questioning what you've absorbed and trying to find your own path. Roger: Exactly, because those are moments when you're stepping away from what's been given to you and finding what you “really” want. It's an ongoing thing, but making decisions with your values keeps you grounded, even when things feel uncertain. Patricia: So, we’ve got super strengths, what you’re great at, and values, what truly matters. Seems like we’re building a strong foundation here. What’s the third skill on the list?

Roger: Okay, so the third skill is “building confidence”. And trust me, this is a big one. It's not just about feeling good, you know? It’s really a skill that helps you tackle self-doubt and actually do things, even when you're not sure how it's going to work out. Patricia: Confidence as a skill, huh? Interesting. Most people seem to think you either have it or you don't. But you're suggesting it can be developed? Roger: Exactly! The authors are really clear on this point. It's not about never being afraid but about moving forward despite the fear. You've got to recognize those "confidence gremlins" – those little voices that tell you, "You're not good enough," or "You're going to screw this up." The trick is learning to quiet those voices so they don't stop you. Patricia: Confidence gremlins! I love that. Like when you're about to ask for a promotion and that voice pipes up, “Who do you think you are? They'll laugh you out of the room.” Those gremlins are persistent little guys. Roger: They are! And those gremlins often come from deeper insecurities or past experiences. So, recognizing them is the first step in dealing with them. The book suggests actually writing down the self-doubts you have and then asking yourself, "Is this based on facts, or just fear?" Usually, they don't really hold up. Patricia: Right, so putting them on the stand, huh? “Alright, doubt, where’s your evidence?!” And if the fear’s not real, it’s easier to ignore. Roger: Absolutely. Besides identifying those gremlins, the authors also recommend building "confidence boosters"—small wins that show you what you're capable of. Say you're nervous about public speaking, for instance. Instead of trying to do a keynote right away, start smaller. Present something to your team in a meeting. Those little wins add up. Patricia: So, it's like lifting weights for your self-assurance. Start with the light stuff before you try to deadlift a car. Roger: Exactly. It’s like a muscle – it grows stronger with regular use. The book encourages you to be around positive people, the ones who lift you up, not drag you down. They call it building a “confidence community”—a support network that reminds you of your worth, especially on those tough days. Patricia: That makes perfect sense. Especially with these squiggly careers, where things are uncertain, having that kind of support is huge. Having someone in your corner makes a tough situation feel doable. But what about people who just tend to be shy or hesitant? Is there any hope for them to deal with those gremlins? Roger: Definitely. The book says it’s not about becoming a completely different person, but about working with who you are. So, an introvert probably won’t love big networking events, but they can build really solid relationships one-on-one, at their pace. The key is respecting who you are, while also stretching just a little bit to grow. Patricia: That's good to hear. So, it's not about pretending to be an extrovert, but about pushing yourself in a way that feels authentic to you. Roger: Exactly. Once you start to really believe that, you're in a much better place to handle the challenges of, you know, a squiggly career. Patricia: Alright, super strengths, values, confidence... What's next in this survival kit? Roger: Next we have building your network. It’s not just about advancing your career, it's about exploring new opportunities and hearing new perspectives. And to be honest, a lot of people find networking kind of scary, right? Patricia: Oh, totally. The word “networking” makes it sound so transactional—like you’re just handing out business cards at a conference, hoping someone will bite. Not exactly inspiring, you know? Roger: Right, because people think of it the wrong way, like it's a numbers game, or that you do it for selfish reasons. The book says to flip that idea on its head – they call it "networking with purpose." So, building relationships based on mutual value, curiosity, and genuine interest, rather than trying to get something. Patricia: Less schmoozing, and more... real connection? Sounds good, but how do you actually do that? Roger: Well, start by changing your mindset. Instead of thinking, "What can I get from this person?" ask yourself how you can learn or contribute. The authors say to look for people who inspire you, or challenge your thinking, even if they're in a different field. Patricia: Makes sense. And that ties into the confidence thing, right? Because walking up to someone new can be intimidating, especially if networking isn't your strong suit. Roger: Exactly. So start small. Reach out to people you already know, but haven't spoken to in a while. Then, gradually expand from there, maybe by going to an online workshop, or connecting over a shared hobby. Keep in mind, some of the best mentorships come from just simple, informal interactions, not formal introductions. Patricia: Got any examples? Stories always help me remember this kind of stuff. Roger: Sure. The book tells the story of Sarah, who was really inspired by social philosopher Roman Krznaric. She didn't necessarily have direct access to him, but she really dug into his ideas, and it helped her grow a lot. So, “networking” does not always mean a face-to-face conversation – it can mean really getting into the work of people who inspire you. Patricia: So it’s networking in a broader sense—connecting not just with people, but also with their work, their ideas, their impact. That opens up way more possibilities, especially for people who maybe don't have access to traditional mentorship. Roger: Right. And it makes networking feel less like a chore and more about curiosity, learning, and shared purpose. The more authentic you are about it, the easier, and more rewarding, it becomes. Patricia: Right, so we’ve got strengths, values, confidence, and building a network. What's the final piece of the puzzle?

Roger: Okay, the fifth, and final, skill is exploring “future possibilities”. Basically, keeping an open mind to change, staying curious, and really thinking about where your career could go. It’s less about, you know, a super rigid five-year plan and more about creating opportunities by, you know, staying flexible and adaptable. Patricia: So, instead of mapping out this perfect, straight highway to success, you’re more charting the potential of all the unexpected twists and turns along the way, right? I see how it all connects—your strengths, values, confidence, and your network, all fueling your ability to stay nimble and pivot when opportunities just pop up. Roger: Exactly. It’s about experimenting, running small tests, trying new ideas, and just stepping outside your comfort zone to discover paths you maybe hadn’t even considered before. The authors really emphasize the importance of seeing these possibilities not as some crazy dream, but as actionable steps you can take now to shape your future. Patricia: Right—so the recurring theme here seems to be that nothing is ever really set in stone. This "squiggly career" basically thrives on change and the ability to adapt. Roger: Absolutely. So, to wrap up, we've really been talking about the squiggly career as this personalized and dynamic alternative to the old-school career ladder. We’ve covered the five key skills—super strengths, values, confidence, networks, and exploring future possibilities—that give you the tools to navigate this less linear path. Patricia: And the big takeaway here? You’re the architect of your own career. Whether it’s shaping your current role, aligning with your values, or building a network, the squiggly career is about embracing uncertainty as an opportunity for growth, right? Roger: Exactly! So, the real question is: what’s your next squiggle going to be? Start with one small action—reflecting on your strengths, reaching out to a mentor, or exploring a new skill. That small step could lead to some incredible possibilities you hadn’t even imagined. Patricia: And just remember, it’s not about perfection or some predictable outcome—it’s about progress, you know? Take your time, embrace the twists and turns, and just maybe trust that the squiggle can lead to something pretty extraordinary. Roger: Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thanks for tuning in, everyone. Here’s to embracing the squiggle in your career journey! Patricia: Until next time—stay curious, stay adaptable, and keep squiggling!