Mark: The most successful people you know—Bezos, the Wright Brothers, Steve Jobs—all have one thing in common. They were masters of starting something stupid. And today, we’re going to argue that your 'stupid' idea might be the smartest thing you ever do. Michelle: That is a bold claim. It sounds like a great way to go broke. But I'm intrigued. You're telling me the secret to genius is to embrace my inner fool? Mark: Exactly. That's the provocative heart of the book we're diving into today: The Power of Starting Something Stupid by Richie Norton. Michelle: And Richie Norton isn't just some philosopher in an ivory tower; he's a serial entrepreneur and an INC. 5000 company founder. What's really powerful, though, is that the book's core idea, which he calls 'Gavin's Law,' was born from immense personal tragedy—the loss of his son. This isn't just business theory; it's a philosophy forged in fire. Mark: It absolutely is. And that law really gets to the heart of the first big idea in the book: the need to completely redefine our relationship with regret.

Mark: The core of 'Gavin's Law' is simple and devastatingly direct: "Live to start. Start to live." It came about after Richie and his wife Natalie lost their infant son, Gavin, to pertussis. He was only 76 days old. Michelle: Wow. That's just heartbreaking. I can't even imagine. Mark: In the aftermath of that grief, a mentor asked them a question that sounds almost harsh, but was transformative: "So, what have you learned?" And after months of reflection, Richie realized that he had been waiting. Waiting for the right time, for circumstances to be perfect. The loss of his son, and earlier, the sudden death of his brother-in-law, also named Gavin, taught him that the "perfect time" is a dangerous illusion. Michelle: That puts a completely different weight on the idea of procrastination, doesn't it? It’s not just about missing a deadline; it's about missing your life. Mark: Precisely. And this philosophy is what powers one of the most practical tools in the book: The Bezos Test. We've all heard of Jeff Bezos, but many don't know the story of Amazon's birth. In the mid-90s, he had a secure, high-paying job on Wall Street. He saw that the internet was growing at an astronomical rate and had this idea for an online bookstore. Michelle: Which, at the time, must have sounded completely insane. People were still skeptical about using credit cards online at all. Mark: Exactly. His boss told him it was a good idea, but "for someone who didn't already have a good job." He was at a crossroads: stability versus a "stupid" idea. So he created what he called a "regret-minimization framework." Michelle: I love that. It's like a personal time machine for your conscience. You travel to 80-year-old you and ask for advice. Mark: That's it. He asked himself, "When I'm 80, am I going to regret leaving Wall Street? No. Am I going to regret missing the start of the internet? Yes." He knew he would regret not trying far more than he would regret trying and failing. So he quit his job, packed up, and drove to Seattle. Michelle: And the rest is history. But how do you know what you'll regret? The fear of failure, of losing your savings, of looking like an idiot to your friends and family—that feels a lot more real in the moment than some hypothetical regret you might feel in 60 years. Mark: That's the crux of it. The book argues that we are conditioned to fear immediate, short-term failure. But the most corrosive feeling is long-term, quiet regret. The Bezos Test is a way to give that future regret a voice in the present. It forces you to weigh the acute, temporary pain of failure against the chronic, lifelong pain of "what if." Michelle: So the book's first big move is to get you to fear inaction more than you fear failure. Mark: Yes. It reframes "stupid" not as a lack of intelligence, but as the courage to act on something that isn't yet validated by everyone else. The book is filled with examples—Twitter, eBay, Newman's Own salad dressing. All were initially met with laughter or dismissal. Decca Records famously rejected The Beatles, saying "guitar music is on the way out." Michelle: That's one of the all-time great blunders. It proves that conventional wisdom is often just a summary of what used to work. Mark: And that's why the book argues that "Stupid is the New Smart." It’s the willingness to look foolish today for a chance at being brilliant tomorrow.

Mark: That fear of looking foolish, as you said, often manifests as three big, very reasonable-sounding excuses. The book calls this the 'T.E.M. Gap.' Michelle: Let me guess. Time, Effort, and Misery? Mark: Close! Time, Education, and Money. These are the big three pillars of procrastination. "I'll start my business when I have more time." "I need to get another degree before I'm qualified." "I can't do anything until I have more capital." Michelle: Okay, I think everyone listening has used at least one of those excuses this week. I know I have. They feel like legitimate barriers, not just excuses. Mark: They do. But the book systematically dismantles them by showing how history's greatest innovators treated them not as roadblocks, but as creative constraints. The ultimate example is the Wright Brothers. Michelle: Right, the bicycle guys who decided to invent the airplane in their spare time. Mark: Think about their T.E.M. Gap. Time? They were running a full-time bicycle shop. Education? Neither of them finished high school, let alone had an engineering degree. Their main competitor, Samuel Langley, was a world-renowned scientist with a huge grant from the government. Money? The Wright brothers funded their entire project with the profits from their bike shop, a few thousand dollars. Langley had the equivalent of over a million dollars in today's money. Michelle: So by every conventional measure, Langley should have won. He had the time, the education, and the money. Mark: He had everything. But the Wright brothers had something more powerful: a deep, authentic passion and an incredible resourcefulness. They didn't have a wind tunnel, so they built one. They didn't have a lightweight engine, so they designed and built one themselves. They weren't just trying to solve a problem; they were obsessed. They were operating from a place of pure, unadulterated "stupid" conviction. Michelle: That example is on another level, though. They weren't just starting a blog; they were trying to invent flight! It almost feels unrelatable for someone just trying to, say, launch a podcast or an Etsy shop. Mark: But the principle is identical, regardless of scale. It’s about leveraging what you do have, instead of being paralyzed by what you don't. Take a more modern story: Sara Blakely, the founder of Spanx. She had an idea for footless pantyhose. She had $5,000 in savings. That was it. No experience in fashion, manufacturing, or retail. Michelle: Another massive T.E.M. Gap. Mark: Huge. She called hosiery mills herself, and they all thought she was crazy. They hung up on her. One mill owner was about to reject her, but he mentioned the "stupid" idea to his daughters, who immediately got it. They said, "Dad, that's brilliant!" and convinced him to help her. She wrote her own patent to save on legal fees. She cold-called Neiman Marcus until they gave her a meeting. She became the youngest self-made female billionaire in history. Michelle: What I'm hearing is that the T.E.M. Gap is real, but it's not a wall. It's a hurdle. And these people didn't have a magic ladder; they just had a running start fueled by obsession. Mark: Exactly. The book argues that a lack of resources forces ingenuity. If you have all the money in the world, you just throw money at problems. If you have no money, you have to throw creativity at them. That's the "New Smart."

Michelle: Okay, so we've killed our fear of regret and thrown out our excuses. We're ready. But what's the first actual step? Where do you physically begin when you're standing there with just your "stupid" idea and a whole lot of conviction? Mark: This is where the book gets incredibly practical. It introduces a five-step framework called the START principles. It's an acronym for Serve, Thank, Ask, Receive, and Trust. Michelle: START. I like it. It's an action word. Mark: It is. And it begins with the most counterintuitive one: Serve. The idea is that before you can ask for anything—funding, support, customers—you have to provide value. You have to serve others first. Michelle: I love the 'Serve' principle, but it can feel difficult. If you're trying to build something for yourself, and you're already short on time and money, why start by giving your time away for free? How does that actually lead to success? Mark: It's about building social capital and credibility. The book tells the story of Chris Bennett, an internet marketer who lost everything in a real estate investment. He was broke. He decided to test this idea by offering his marketing services for free to a friend's small catering company. He just wanted to do something he loved. Michelle: So he was serving with his skills. Mark: Yes. And the results were staggering. The catering company went from getting a few calls a week to seven calls a day. Within a year, it was the second-largest caterer in the state. And suddenly, other companies were calling Chris, asking what his secret was and how much he charged. His company, 97th Floor, was born from that one act of service and now works with Fortune 100 companies. He proved his value before he asked for a dime. Michelle: That's powerful. So you serve, then you Thank—that seems straightforward. Then Ask. That's the hard one for a lot of people. Mark: It is. We're afraid of rejection. But the book says you have to ask for help from people who are already where you want to be. And then there's Receive—which is surprisingly hard. When someone offers help or a compliment, our instinct is often to deflect. The book says you have to learn to graciously receive. Michelle: And finally, Trust. That feels like the foundation for all of it. Mark: It's the glue. You have to trust the process, trust others, and most importantly, trust yourself. There's a fantastic story about Captain Michael Abrashoff, who took command of the USS Benfold, which at the time was the worst-performing ship in the Pacific Fleet. The crew was miserable, turnover was high, morale was nonexistent. Michelle: A floating T.E.M. Gap. Mark: A perfect description. Abrashoff's approach was pure START. He served his crew by interviewing every single one of the 310 sailors, asking them what they'd change. He asked for their ideas. He thanked them for their input. He received their feedback, even when it was critical of his leadership. And most importantly, he trusted them. He implemented their ideas, from changing the food to letting them buy their own tools. He gave them ownership. Michelle: He trusted them with a billion-dollar warship. Mark: He did. And within a year, the USS Benfold went from being the worst ship in the fleet to winning the award for best ship in the Pacific Fleet. Reenlistment rates skyrocketed. He didn't do it with more money or better technology. He did it with trust. He started with the "stupid" idea that the sailors on the front lines might know their jobs better than the admirals in the back office.

Mark: So when you put it all together, it all comes back to a simple, but profound, shift. We're taught to plan, to prepare, to wait for permission, to get all our ducks in a row. This book argues that innovation and a life well-lived come from the opposite. Michelle: From a beautiful, chaotic mess of ducks going everywhere. Mark: Exactly! It comes from the courage to act in the face of uncertainty, to serve before you're asked, and to trust that your 'stupid' idea is the very thing the world might be waiting for. It’s about understanding that the biggest risk isn't failing; it's looking back from age 80 at a life lived so safely that you never really lived at all. Michelle: It's not about being reckless; it's about being brave enough to honor your own ideas. The book really makes you ask yourself: What's the one 'stupid' thing I've been putting off because I'm afraid of what people will think or because I don't feel 'ready'? Mark: And what would happen if you just took one small step today? Michelle: Maybe the single best thing a listener could do is just to write that idea down. No plan, no pressure. Just acknowledge it. Give it a little bit of air. Mark: That’s the perfect start. Michelle: This has been a great conversation. I feel like I need to go start something stupid right now. Mark: This is Aibrary, signing off.