Mark: The most powerful word for building relationships isn't 'Yes.' It's 'No.' And most of us are terrible at it, using it like a sledgehammer when it should be a scalpel. We're about to change that. Michelle: That’s a bold claim, Mark. I think most people, myself included, feel a jolt of anxiety just thinking about saying 'No' to someone important. It feels like you're severing a connection, not building one. Mark: Exactly. We see it as a destructive act. But what if it’s actually an act of creation? That's the core premise of a book that I think is more relevant today than ever, The Power of a Positive No by William Ury. Michelle: William Ury... isn't he the guy behind the legendary negotiation book, Getting to Yes? Mark: The very same. He's a co-founder of Harvard's Program on Negotiation and has mediated everything from civil wars to corporate showdowns. What's fascinating is that he wrote this book after realizing that teaching people to get to 'Yes' was only half the battle. The other, harder half, is learning to say 'No' with integrity. Michelle: I can see that. It’s easy to agree. It’s terrifying to disagree. We’re so afraid of the fallout that we fall into what he calls the 'Three-A Trap,' right? We either Accommodate, Attack, or Avoid. Mark: You’ve nailed it. We say yes when we mean no, just to keep the peace. That’s Accommodation. Or we say no with so much anger and frustration that we burn the bridge entirely. That’s Attack. Or, the most common one for many of us, we say nothing at all and just hope the problem goes away. That’s Avoidance. Michelle: Oh, I know that feeling. It’s the simmering resentment of accommodation, the regret of a scorched-earth attack, or the slow-burn anxiety of avoidance. It feels like a no-win situation. So how do we get out of the trap?

Mark: Well, the way out is completely counter-intuitive. The first step to delivering a powerful 'No' to someone else is to find a powerful 'Yes' for yourself. Michelle: Hold on, that sounds a bit like a self-help platitude. What does that actually mean in practice? How do you find your 'Yes' when your boss is asking you to work on a weekend for the third time in a row? Mark: It’s about digging deeper than the immediate situation. It’s about uncovering the core interest or value that your 'No' is meant to protect. And Ury anchors this idea in one of the most intense personal stories I’ve ever read. It’s about his own daughter, Gabriela. Michelle: Oh, I remember reading about this. It’s heartbreaking. Mark: It is. She was born with very serious spinal problems. And early on, a doctor gave him and his wife this terrifyingly blunt warning. He said, and I'm quoting here, "If your baby gets even a cold, she could die." Michelle: Wow. That’s an impossibly high-stakes situation. I can’t even imagine the weight of that. Mark: Exactly. And that single, terrifying sentence became the foundation for their 'Yes'. Their 'Yes' was: we will protect our daughter's life and well-being above all else. That 'Yes' was so powerful, so non-negotiable, that it gave them the strength to say 'No' to everything that threatened it. Michelle: What kind of things did they have to say no to? Mark: Everything. They had to say 'No' to well-meaning relatives who wanted to visit when they had a sniffle. 'No' to certain medical procedures they felt weren't right. 'No' to their own exhaustion. Over seven years, she had seven major surgeries and hundreds of consultations. Their lives were a constant series of negotiations, and their ability to say a firm, clear 'No' was rooted in that profound 'Yes' to their daughter's health. Michelle: That really puts it in perspective. It’s not just about saying 'No' to a task; it’s about saying 'Yes' to your family, your health, your sanity. That 'Yes' is the fuel. Mark: It’s the fuel and the anchor. Without it, your 'No' is just a complaint. With it, your 'No' becomes a statement of principle. So for the person whose boss is asking them to work on the weekend, the 'Yes' isn't just "I want to relax." The deeper 'Yes' might be "My 'Yes' is to my mental health, which is suffering from burnout," or "My 'Yes' is to being present with my children, which is a core value for me." Michelle: I can see that. When you frame it that way, the 'No' feels less like a selfish act and more like an act of self-preservation. It’s not about rejecting your boss; it’s about protecting your family time. Mark: Precisely. Ury says you have to uncover your 'Yes', empower your 'No' by having a Plan B in mind, and respect the other person enough to prepare them for your 'No'. This whole first stage is internal. It's the work you do alone, in your own head and heart, before you ever open your mouth. Michelle: So you’re saying the battle is won or lost before the conversation even begins. It’s about having that unshakeable internal conviction. Mark: It is. Because once you have that, you're ready for the external part—actually delivering the 'No'. And for that, Ury gives us this brilliant, almost deceptively simple, three-part structure.

Michelle: Okay, I’m ready for the magic formula. How do you deliver a 'No' without the other person hating you? Mark: Ury calls it a Positive No, and it’s structured like a sandwich: Yes-No-Yes. Michelle: A 'Yes-No-Yes' sandwich. I like the sound of that. Break it down for me. Mark: The first 'Yes' is a statement that affirms your positive intention and acknowledges the other person's interest. It shows you’re on their side, fundamentally. The 'No' is a clear, factual, and unemotional statement of your boundary. And the final 'Yes?' is a proposal. It’s an invitation to find a different solution, opening the door to a new agreement. Michelle: Yes-No-Yes. Affirm, state the boundary, propose. It sounds clean. But does it work in the real world, especially in high-stakes business? Mark: It absolutely does. There's a fantastic story in the book about a small software company called Citrix Systems. In the late 90s, their primary partner was a little company you may have heard of: Microsoft. Michelle: Just a small startup, I’m sure. Mark: Right. Microsoft owned a piece of Citrix and they worked together. Then, one day, Microsoft announced it was going to develop its own software to compete directly with Citrix. It was a death blow. Citrix's stock plummeted 62% in a single day. Everyone thought they were finished. Michelle: That’s a corporate nightmare. So they were in the 'Three-A Trap'. They could Accommodate and just die slowly, Attack and get crushed, or Avoid and pretend it wasn't happening. Mark: Exactly. But they chose a fourth path. They used the Positive No. The Citrix leadership flew to Microsoft headquarters. Their first 'Yes' was this: they affirmed the relationship. They said, "We value our partnership with you and we are committed to serving our shared customers." They started with common ground. Michelle: Okay, that’s the first slice of bread. What was the 'No'? Mark: Their 'No' was firm and factual. They said, "We will not be pushed out of our core business. We have a plan to compete, we have $175 million in the bank to fund it, and we are prepared to do whatever it takes to survive." It wasn't an emotional threat; it was a statement of fact. They had empowered their 'No' with a Plan B. Michelle: That takes guts. So what was the final 'Yes?' The proposal? Mark: Their final 'Yes?' was the brilliant part. They said, "So, let's find a way to work together that is even better than before. Let's redefine our partnership so it’s a win-win for both of us." They proposed a new, deeper collaboration. Michelle: And what happened? Mark: After ten weeks of intense negotiation, Microsoft completely reversed its decision. They announced they would not compete with Citrix, but would instead invest more in the partnership. Citrix didn't just survive; they thrived. They used a Positive No to turn their biggest threat into their greatest ally. Michelle: That's an amazing story, but it sounds like it required a huge amount of resources and guts. Can a regular person use this 'sandwich' to say no to their boss about working late on a Friday? Mark: It scales down perfectly. Let’s take the story of John from the book, who worked for his dominating father. He was overworked and underpaid compared to his brothers-in-law. He was trapped in Accommodation. Michelle: A classic family business dilemma. Mark: He finally decided to act. He went to his father. His first 'Yes' was: "Dad, I love this family and I am committed to the success of this business." He affirmed the relationship and the shared goal. Michelle: Smart start. Mark: His 'No' was: "But I will not be working overtime on evenings and weekends anymore." It was a clear, simple boundary. Michelle: And the proposal? The final 'Yes?' Mark: His final 'Yes?' was: "I want to find a way to restructure my responsibilities and my compensation so that it's fair and allows me to be with my own family. Can we talk about how to make that happen?" Michelle: Yes-No-Yes. Affirm, state the boundary, propose. What did his father do? Mark: He took it surprisingly well. He agreed to no more overtime and to discuss the finances. John stood up for himself without declaring war on his father. He used his power while preserving the relationship. It's the same principle, whether you're facing Microsoft or your own dad.

Mark: And that really brings the two ideas together. The internal work of finding your 'Yes' gives you the unshakeable foundation, the courage to stand your ground. The 'Yes-No-Yes' sandwich gives you the script, the respectful way to communicate that conviction. Michelle: It’s like the inner 'Yes' loads the cannon, and the 'Yes-No-Yes' structure is the sophisticated targeting system that ensures you hit the issue without causing collateral damage to the relationship. Mark: That’s a perfect analogy. Ury has this fantastic line that sums it all up: "Yes without No is appeasement, whereas No without Yes is war." Appeasement leads to resentment and self-betrayal. War destroys relationships. The Positive No is the third way, the path of integrity. Michelle: It really shifts 'No' from being an act of rejection to an act of creation. You're not just destroying a possibility; you're creating a boundary to protect something you value, and then proposing a new, better possibility. Mark: You’re creating clarity. You’re creating self-respect. And you’re creating an opportunity for a more honest and robust relationship. Often, the other person would rather have a clear 'No' than a waffling, resentful 'Yes'. Michelle: That’s so true. It makes me think about all the small 'Nos' we avoid every day. It leads me to a question for everyone listening. What is one small 'No' you've been avoiding that, if you said it, would actually be a 'Yes' to something really important in your life? Mark: That’s a powerful question. It could be saying 'No' to another committee at work to say 'Yes' to finishing your own projects. Or saying 'No' to a social event you're dreading to say 'Yes' to a quiet night of rest. We’d love to hear your thoughts on that. Join the conversation and share your reflections with the Aibrary community. Michelle: It’s a small word, but it holds so much power. Learning to use it positively feels like a genuine life skill. Mark: It’s the art of marrying Yes and No. And when you get that right, you can protect what you value and change what no longer works, all while building stronger, more honest connections. Michelle: A powerful idea from a powerful book. Mark: This is Aibrary, signing off.