Autumn: Hey everyone, welcome back! Today, we’re tackling something that so many parents, teachers, and caregivers deal with constantly: those moments when a child just… explodes. It’s overwhelming, confusing, and you’re left wondering, "What was that? How do I even begin to fix it?" Rachel: Or more likely, "Am I messing this up completely?" I think that’s the question that haunts most parents, right? When your kid is having a full-blown meltdown over, say, a blue cup instead of a red one, you feel so stuck. But what if those outbursts aren’t just stubbornness or trying to get their way? What if they're actually a sign of something deeper? Autumn: Exactly, Rachel. That’s where Ross Greene’s book, “The Explosive Child,” comes in. It completely changes how we think about discipline. He basically says it's not about kids refusing to behave, but kids who can't behave, at least not yet. Greene’s Collaborative Problem Solving, or CPS, offers another approach: instead of punishing the behavior, we try to understand the developmental delays, help build the skills they're missing, and work together with them to help them succeed. Rachel: So, we're swapping timeouts and reward charts for… family therapy sessions? I mean, I get the idea, but how’s that supposed to work when you’re in the middle of a supermarket aisle with a screaming child? Autumn: That’s a valid question. We'll definitely get to that. But first, let’s lay out what we’re going to cover today. We can break it down into three parts. First, we'll look at what's really behind explosive behavior—what’s actually going on when these kids get so heated and why traditional discipline often makes it worse. Then, we’ll dive into CPS itself, especially the Plan B method, which is all about turning conflict into connection. And finally, we’ll explore how this approach does more than just stop tantrums; it actually helps kids grow emotionally and brings more peace to families over the long haul. Rachel: So, we’re kind of peeling back the layers of an onion here, right? We start with what’s triggering the behavior, then we grab the right tools to deal with it in the moment, and then we zoom out and see how this leads to real, lasting positive change. Sounds like a plan, Autumn. Autumn: It is a plan, Rachel, and it’s an important one. We’re talking about giving people tools that can “really” change lives. So, ready to dive in?

Autumn: Okay, so let's dive into the core of explosive behavior. You know, on the surface, it’s easy to see it as a kid just trying to be difficult. But Dr. Greene's approach really flips that. It’s not that kids choose to act out; they're actually struggling because they lack certain skills. Rachel: Exactly, Autumn, that’s where most people kind of miss the point. Like, a kid loses it because their sibling took the last waffle, and everyone just thinks, "Oh, they're being selfish." Greene's saying it's more like their brain's just overloaded – they can’t handle what's happening in that moment. Autumn: Precisely! These outbursts often stem from lagging skills in three main areas, that is emotional regulation, cognitive flexibility, and frustration tolerance. Take emotional regulation, as an example, that’s basically the ability to manage emotions, especially when things get tough. So a child lacking in this area, even minor setbacks can feel like huge obstacles. Rachel: Okay, I follow. But, how is that, like, different from cognitive flexibility? That concept feels a little more abstract, no? Autumn: Good question. Cognitive flexibility is essentially about how well you adapt when things don’t go as planned. So, like, if Jennifer believes those waffles are “hers,” you know, because that's how she’s framed it in her head, any disruption to that idea throws her completely off. She just can't switch gears. Rachel: So, instead of, "No biggie, I’ll just grab something else," what happens, complete kitchen meltdown? Autumn: Precisely. Then, you throw in low frustration tolerance, and suddenly, even the smallest thing—a sibling asking for something, a change of plans—becomes unbearable. That intolerance really fuels the intensity of the outburst. Rachel: Okay, let's zoom in on Jennifer and the waffle fiasco. Picture this: an 11-year-old, stomping, yelling… the whole family's on edge 'cause they've seen this before. So, how do we even begin to unpack what's really going on there? Autumn: Well, first things first, we need to recognize it’s not actually about the waffles. Her outburst shows her two key struggles: rigid thinking—like, “These are my waffles, end of discussion”—and an inability to cope with the frustration of that plan falling apart. Lacking the ability to deal with the moment, her emotions spiral. Rachel: Right, right. And what about the family in this whole situation? I mean, I can’t blame them for being frustrated, too. How do parents not get stuck in this cycle of constant battles? Autumn: That’s where understanding really transforms everything. When parents start to see Jennifer's behavior not as defiance but as a struggle to adapt, the response shifts from punishment to problem-solving. Instead of asking, "Why won't she just listen?" they start asking, "What's making this so hard for her?" And that's a powerful change in perspective. Rachel: Okay, but let's zoom out for a sec. I mean, Jennifer's not alone in this, is she? What about Tommy, the kid who just loses it every time playtime's over and it’s homework time? What's different in his case? Autumn: Right, so with Tommy, we're seeing another layer of developmental challenges—specifically, problems with executive functioning. Now, unlike Jennifer’s rigidity, Tommy’s problem is with transitions. Executive functioning includes things like planning, organizing, and task shifting. So, for him, switching gears from playtime to homework feels like trying to jump a canyon. Rachel: And instead of landing smoothly, he just nosedives into shouting or throwing things. Autumn: Exactly. Again, it’s not about refusing to follow the rules. It’s that his brain simply isn't ready to handle those two opposing mindsets. And when environments—like school or a super-packed schedule—demand quick changes, those struggles get even bigger. Rachel: It kind of reminds me of something you said earlier—catastrophizing, right? It feels like these kids live in that state, where every little problem becomes this massive crisis. Autumn: Absolutely. Catastrophizing turns small issues into overwhelming crises. For explosive kids, this kind of exaggerated thinking comes naturally since their brains tend to have heightened emotional responses. It’s like their emotional volume is stuck on super loud, with no way to turn it down. Rachel: So, whether it’s waffles, homework, or playground drama, the pattern's always the same: they’re not trying to cause trouble, they're just overwhelmed by stress they don't know how to manage. Autumn: And that, right there, is why so many adults mistakenly label these kids as difficult, manipulative, or oppositional. But when you view it through the lens of their skill deficits, those moments then become opportunities to actually teach and guide, instead of just punishing. Rachel: Alright, I'm with you. I get the empathy, sure. But where does this leave, like, the parent or teacher who's stuck in the middle of Tommy’s homework meltdown or Jennifer’s kitchen explosion? I mean, there's a line between understanding their struggle, but also, just trying to survive the chaos they’re causing, right? So, how do we start to help these kids cope, in the moment? Autumn: That takes us to the crucial next step—moving from understanding why it's happening to actually equipping ourselves with really practical tools. Because while understanding is really important, that's just the start.

Autumn: Right, so by really understanding what's driving these behaviors, we can use strategies that are both compassionate and effective. That's where Collaborative Problem Solving, or CPS, comes in. It's really a structured way to move away from just reacting to behavior and instead, helps build the skills these kids “really” need to thrive. I think this is a great extension to understanding explosive behavior, because it offers a practical, skill-building solution—something caregivers can actually use when those conflicts arise. Rachel: Okay, here we go, another "miracle method." What exactly makes CPS different? I mean, there's so much parenting advice out there promising the world, I'm always a bit suspicious of these, ahem, "quick fixes." Autumn: I hear you. And, you know, CPS, it's not a quick fix at all. It's more of a fundamental shift in how you think and act. At its heart, CPS uses three plans: Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C. Each plan is a different way to deal with a tough situation, but CPS “really” focuses on Plan B—collaboration. That’s “really” where the "magic" happens, so to speak. Rachel: Alright, walk me through these plans. Let's start with Plan A. That's the "adult knows best," right? Autumn: Exactly. Plan A is how most of us were raised: the adult lays down the law. Do X because I said so. It's direct, no room for discussion, and often involves rewards or punishments. While it might work sometimes, it's often a disaster with explosive kids. They feel like their voice doesn't matter, which can trigger even bigger reactions, like tantrums or shutdowns. Rachel: So, with these kids, Plan A is like… pouring fuel on a fire? You try to control it, but it just gets worse? Autumn: Yes, exactly. Now, Plan B, that's the core of CPS. It's all about working together—adults and kids figuring out what's causing the behavior and finding a solution that works for everyone. It's not about the kid calling all the shots, it's about being partners. Rachel: Partnership sounds nice, but is it realistic? What if the kid just refuses to play along with this "kumbaya" moment? Autumn: Good point. That's where the three steps of Plan B are key. The first step is empathy. The caregiver “really” listens and acknowledges what the child is feeling. It's not just nodding, it's “really” trying to understand what's bothering the child, without judging. Rachel: So, instead of saying, "Stop whining about the waffles," it's more like, "You're “really” bummed out because you were saving those waffles, huh?" Meeting them where they're at. Autumn: Exactly. Step two is defining the problem. Both the child's and the adult's perspectives are laid out. In the waffle example, the mom acknowledges Jennifer's disappointment about the waffles, but she also clearly states her concern: feeding both kids right now. Rachel: And “clearly and neutrally” is key here, huh? No blame, no shame, just the facts. Autumn: Absolutely. Then, step three, we invite them to help find a solution. This is where the magic actually happens. Both the child and adult brainstorm together, making sure each person's needs are met. Maybe they split the waffles, or agree on who gets the waffles on what day? The important thing is Jennifer gets to practice problem-solving and being flexible. Rachel: So, Plan B is like, "problem-solving camp" where the kid is a collaborator, not just being told what to do. Autumn: Exactly! And by involving the child, you're not just fixing the problem, you’re teaching them important skills: compromise, how to handle their emotions, and how to be flexible. Rachel: Ok, and Plan C? That's picking your battles, right? Autumn: Right. Plan C is about temporarily letting go of non-essential demands to lower the stress. It's prioritizing what's “really” important. If Jennifer's having a tough morning and the socks are the problem, maybe you just skip the matching socks that day. Rachel: A tactical retreat, huh? Avoiding a fight to save energy for bigger things later. Autumn: Exactly. It helps you focus on what “really” matters in the moment—reducing stress and staying connected. Rachel: Okay, let's zoom in on this "Waffle Episode." You said Jennifer's mom used Plan B. Can you walk us through the details? That's where things get real, right? Autumn: Sure. Jennifer, who is 11, has a meltdown over frozen waffles. Her brother wants them, but she was planning on saving them for later. It escalates into shouting, even a bit of chaos in the kitchen, but instead of going straight to Plan A—the adult in charge—her mom tries Plan B. Rachel: So, step one, empathy. What does that look like here? Autumn: Jennifer’s mom says something like, "Hey, you were “really” looking forward to having those waffles later this week, weren't you?" Just acknowledging that makes Jennifer feel heard, not like she is being attacked. Rachel: And step two, defining the problem, she broadens the picture, right? How does she explain her side? Autumn: Exactly. Her mom explains that her brother is hungry now and wants the waffles for breakfast. By stating it without blaming, it opens the door for a discussion. Rachel: And then comes step three. What solution do they come up with? Autumn: They brainstorm together. Maybe they split the waffles, or make a plan for the rest of the week. The best part of this step is not just solving the problem but teaching Jennifer how to negotiate and think flexibly. Rachel: Alright, that sounds good on paper, but let's be real. How does a parent or teacher stay calm when things are falling apart? Most people don't naturally respond with patience. How do you change gears in the middle of chaos? Autumn: It's “really” hard, I get it. And CPS acknowledges that adults need to work on their own emotional regulation and problem-solving skills, too. It works best when caregivers practice these techniques ahead of time, so they're better prepared when things get intense. Rachel: So, CPS isn't just about fixing kids, it's also about retraining the adults in their lives? Giving everyone a crash course in staying cool under pressure? Autumn: Exactly. It's about creating a new relationship where the adult and child work together to handle challenges and grow. And, once Plan B becomes a habit, it starts to break those old patterns of conflict. Rachel: Alright, so we've got the theory, the structure. Next, I want to hear more about how to make this work long-term. How do we go from just putting out fires to actually helping these kids grow as people?

Autumn: So, with the CPS framework, we can now look at applying it in real life which leads us to today's focus: long-term goals and family. It's not just about dealing with immediate triggers—though those are important—but about building a groundwork for growth and healthy relationships within the family. Rachel: Right, so we're zooming out here, seeing how this affects not just the “explosive” child, but the whole family system. What's the overarching goal, Autumn? Autumn: It's about fostering emotional resilience, empathy, and stronger family connections. It's creating an environment where everyone feels heard and valued, even when dealing with difficult behaviors. For example, using empathy to build trust and understanding is key. Rachel: Okay, let's unpack that. What does empathy look like day-to-day? A lot of parents might think, "I get my kid's upset, now what?" Autumn: Empathy starts with acknowledging a child’s emotions without just dismissing them. Say a child is upset because a family outing gets canceled because of bad weather. You might want to downplay it, but instead of saying “It’s just a picnic, no big deal”, you could say something like, “I see you're “really” disappointed. You were so excited about today, weren't you?” Rachel: Got it, you're showing you understand where they're coming from. But then what? Empathy is great, but it doesn't reschedule the picnic. Autumn: Right! And that's where collaboration comes in. You involve the child in finding a solution. So, you might say, "It's too bad we can't go out, what's something fun we can do at home instead?" This gets them involved instead of stuck in disappointment and teaches them adaptability. Rachel: Adaptability, huh? I like that idea. Steering the ship together, not just barking orders. This applies to siblings too, right? Autumn: Absolutely. Sibling dynamics are crucial when you have an explosive child. Siblings often feel resentful because so much attention goes to managing the explosive behavior. For instance, there's Ellie who may have a meltdown over not getting to pick the TV show, and her brother Liam says, “She always gets her way!” Rachel: That's bound to happen, isn't it? It's like living with a constant storm. Autumn: Exactly. Favoritism, even unintentional, can hurt the family. So, it's important to address these feelings head-on. Parents can acknowledge the sibling's frustrations—"I know it seems like Ellie gets more attention, and that must feel unfair"—then use Collaborative Problem Solving to give both kids a voice. Rachel: So, a family conference? Everyone sits down and hashes it out? Autumn: Kind of. With that TV example, a meeting could let Ellie and Liam share their views in a structured way. Liam might say he feels ignored, and Ellie might talk about her struggles with frustration. Then, they could together find solutions, like taking turns with TV shows or having special one-on-one time with a parent. Rachel: Sounds good, but what if parents think, "This just encourages demands?" They're not just throwing ideas, they’re trying to get what they want, right? Autumn: That's a fair worry, but it's not about letting kids "win." It's about teaching them to listen to each other, compromise, and find solutions that feel fair. These are skills they'll use way beyond the family, in friendships, school, and later, at work. Rachel: Okay, so what about the long-term? It’s great for sorting out TV squabbles, but how does it build emotional resilience? Autumn: Long-term, it's about helping kids handle emotions adaptively. For explosive kids, that means focusing on frustration, flexibility, and communication. Take frustration tolerance—that's the ability to cope when things don't go your way. You teach this in small steps. Rachel: Small steps like…? Give me an example. Autumn: Okay, think of Tommy, who struggles when it's time to transition from playing to doing his homework. His parents might use CPS to guide him and start by validating his feelings by saying something like “It’s hard to stop playing when you’re having so much fun, isn’t it?”—and then brainstorm a solution, like setting a timer so he knows playtime is ending soon. With practice, Tommy learns to manage these transitions. Rachel: So frustration tolerance needs practice, got it. What about cognitive flexibility? That seems harder. Autumn: It takes time, but you can do it. Cognitive flexibility—adapting to changes—can be built intentionally. You can make small changes in routine. Say the family’s playing a board game, tweak the rules a bit during the game to give the child a chance to adapt in a low-pressure environment. This helps them adjust to bigger changes in the real world. Rachel: So, lots of little moments building the foundation for growth. This seems like a lot for the families, not just the child. Autumn: It is, and that's why strengthening family unity is important. Families thrive when everyone feels included, and that's especially true here. A practical way to do this is through routines, like family dinners or weekly meetings to address challenges. Rachel: Routines, huh? Simple, but I see how they'd be a lifeline in a chaotic house. Autumn: Exactly. Routines create predictability, which lowers stress. And these family check-ins allow open communication where siblings can share frustrations, parents can show empathy, and everyone can create solutions together. It's about building respect and teamwork with each other. Rachel: So, to recap, this isn't just about stopping explosions. It's about creating an environment where they don't happen in the first place, right? Autumn: Exactly. If invest in empathy, collaborative problem-solving, skill-building, and a strong family unit, you address the immediate behavior and create a strong growth for emotional resilience and stronger relationship. Rachel: Alright, I think I get it. At the heart of it, it’s bigger than behavior; it’s about connections, growth, and building a better future for everyone in the family.

Autumn: Okay, Rachel, so, we've really covered a lot today, haven't we? From digging into why explosive behavior happens in the first place, how Collaborative Problem Solving works, and, ultimately, how CPS can help families grow emotionally and become closer. Rachel: Yeah, so basically, we're shifting our perspective, right? Seeing these outbursts not as kids just trying to be difficult, but as signs that they're struggling with something – like managing their emotions, being flexible, or dealing with frustration. And CPS is about meeting those struggles head-on with understanding, teamwork, and, you know, real-world solutions through those Plans A, B, and C. Autumn: Precisely. And it's more than just calming things down in the heat of the moment. We're talking about building inner strength, teaching kids how to adapt, and creating an atmosphere of respect within the family. It requires commitment, sure, but the long-term benefits are definitely worth it. Rachel: So, if I’m understanding correctly, Autumn, instead of labeling these kids – or their families – as somehow “broken,” Greene’s method challenges us to completely rethink the situation. It's less about immediately correcting the unwanted behavior and more about identifying and fulfilling the unmet need that's driving it, while also providing everyone involved with the tools they need to better navigate things moving forward. Autumn: Exactly, Rachel! And to our listeners, I'd say: try implementing one thing we talked about today. Maybe next time there's a meltdown, just pause and really try to see things from their perspective. Or, you know, try a simple Plan B conversation. It's these small, but meaningful changes that can lead to real progress. Rachel: And keep in mind, it won't happen overnight. However, each attempt helps foster a setting that encourages children to believe their feelings are acknowledged, families to experience greater connection, and explosive behaviors to develop into opportunities for development and learning.