Autumn: Hey everyone, welcome! Today we're diving into something super relevant, especially for parents, or anyone who cares about young people: the rise of anxiety and depression in teens. It feels like it's everywhere, right? And could our phones actually be a big part of the problem? Rachel: Smartphones, huh? The all-in-one babysitter, tutor, and entertainment system. Except instead of scraped knees and playground dramas, we're dealing with digital addiction and anxiety spirals. Sounds… delightful. Autumn: Exactly! That brings us to Jonathan Haidt's new book, “The Anxious Generation”. He makes a “really” compelling case that this surge in teen mental health issues isn't just some random thing. It's a direct result of how childhood has fundamentally changed. He points to smartphones, social media, and even - get this - overprotective parenting. These things have basically robbed kids of real-world play and independence, replacing it with screens and this constant need for online approval. Rachel: Right, and let's be real, this isn't just about the kids, is it? It's about how we, as a society, have kind of cooked up this perfect storm—too much connection combined with too much… helicoptering. What's the actual damage here, and is there any way to undo some of it? Autumn: Absolutely. So, in this podcast, we want to break it down into three key areas. First, we'll look at the crisis itself – why are kids feeling more anxious, more depressed, and more alone than ever? Then, we'll dig into the roots of this change, from the decline of free play to our increasing dependence on tech. And finally, we'll explore some of the solutions that are being offered, from adjustments in parenting styles to larger tech reforms. Each element helps us unpack a “really” complex puzzle. Rachel: So, if you’ve ever wondered whether handing your kid a tablet for some peace and quiet during dinner might have some… consequences – well, spoiler alert – it definitely does. This is the conversation for you.

Autumn: So, let's dive into this crisis, because Haidt's numbers? They're kind of alarming. Since 2010, we've seen a huge spike in anxiety, depression, and self-harm among teenagers. Hospital visits for self-injury in girls aged 10 to 14 almost tripled in ten years. This isn't just about better diagnosis or more awareness; it's a matter of severity. Emergency room visits, suicide rates—these are pretty clear indicators that something's seriously wrong. Rachel: Exactly. It's not just a case of kids feeling a bit down and us noticing more. Psychiatric emergency hospital visits aren't something you take lightly, right? These are real, acute crises. But the question is, why now? I mean, 2010, that wasn't so long ago. What changed so dramatically? Autumn: That's where he really focuses on the technology aspect. Around 2010, smartphones and, more importantly, social media truly became widespread. Before that, teens used desktops or flip phones—they weren't constantly online. The book talks about how this shift led to what Haidt calls a "screen-centered culture." Physical activity and face-to-face interactions were replaced with endless scrolling, filtered images, and seeking validation online. Rachel: So, instead of meeting up with friends or playing a game, they're glued to their phones, doom-scrolling on Instagram, and then we’re surprised that their mental health is declining? Shocker. But, Autumn, teenagers in the '90s and 2000s didn't have easy lives either. Wasn't the whole "mall rat" culture a breeding ground for teenage angst? What makes social media so much more damaging? Autumn: I hear you! But the book delves deeper, it's not just about feeling angsty, but the process and the origin of the angst. Social media doesn’t just amplify teenage insecurities; it kinda hyper-targets them. The curated content and constant comparisons aren't just stressful, they create feelings of exclusion and inadequacy that previous generations didn't experience in the same way. Rachel: So, let me guess: for girls, it’s all about being Insta-perfect—flawless selfies and bikini pics. And for boys, it might be dominating in Call of Duty or creating viral TikTok pranks. Different platforms, same dysfunction? Autumn: Pretty much! But for girls, social media creates this pressure cooker around physical appearance and online validation. Haidt highlights a cycle where girls spend endless hours seeking approval through likes, comments, and followers—and when they don’t get enough, they feel rejected and start hating themselves. And there's the whole FOMO—the Fear of Missing Out—magnified by social media. Who wouldn’t feel lonely when they're constantly seeing highlight reels of parties they weren't invited to or "perfect" lives that don't align with their own reality? Rachel: FOMO. So, instead of just being bored at home or annoyed that you're not at a party, now you're forced to witness every agonizing second of the fun you’re missing. It’s not just missing out; it's public knowledge. Your peers are seeing it, too. That's...brutal. Autumn: Exactly. And Haidt connects these feelings of exclusion and comparison directly to the alarming increase in depression we're seeing. He even notes that social isolation has become a primary driver of major depressive disorder in teens. When kids lose face-to-face interaction with their peers—those moments where they share jokes, solve problems together, or even just argue—they begin to withdraw, feeling lonelier and less capable of dealing with challenges. Rachel: Hang on. Let me play devil's advocate for a second—adolescents have always felt isolated, haven't they? Kids who felt excluded at lunch or didn't get invited to prom. How is this new form of disconnection so much worse? Autumn: Valid point. Teenagers have always experienced loneliness, it's true. But Haidt argues that the scale and intensity have changed. Before social media, you might have to deal with a clique at school, but you got a break once you went home. Now, with smartphones, the bullying or exclusion follows you—it's a 24/7 thing. And instead of building self-esteem by working through everyday conflicts with friends in person, kids turn to their devices. It's a vicious cycle: more screen time leads to isolation, which makes them turn back to screens for relief, only to ultimately feel even lonelier. Rachel: So it’s like they’re trapped in this closed loop—I bet Haidt even uses the phrase "doom loop" or a similar term? Because that's precisely what it sounds like: a never-ending cycle of despair. Autumn: <Laughs> He doesn't quite call it that, but that's essentially his point. And one of the most heartbreaking aspects is how this intense loneliness isn't just psychological—Haidt explains how it actually manifests physically. Kids are experiencing chronic chest tightness, sleep disturbances, stomach pains—all signs that the anxiety is becoming embedded in their bodies. It's not just in their heads; it's impacting their overall health. Rachel: Jeez. And for parents trying to wrap their heads around this, it's like, "Is my kid just skipping breakfast—or are they quietly battling crippling anxiety every morning?" That's frankly terrifying. Autumn: It really is. And Haidt emphasizes that what's even more frightening is the potential long-term consequences: we're raising a generation that might struggle to form deep, meaningful connections as adults. If they don't cultivate those emotional "muscles"—learning to navigate disagreements, build resilience—they won't just feel isolated as teenagers. They'll carry that with them, making it harder to thrive in relationships, careers, and communities. Rachel: So they're not just failing to launch; they're failing to connect. They’re scrolling as kids—fast-forward 15 years, and they' re still struggling to break up with someone over the phone, or even just ask them out on a date in the first place. Autumn: Exactly, and we're already seeing evidence of that. The book points to declining marriage rates, fewer close friendships, and even lower workforce engagement as part of this broader trend. It's a ripple effect, starting with kids constantly glued to their screens, and ending with adults who may never reach their full potential for deep connection or meaningful contribution. Rachel: Right. And while the Shakespeare quote Haidt uses—that whole, "How weary, stale, flat, and unprofitable seem to me all the uses of this world"—feels a bit dramatic, it's actually pretty fitting. That sense of hopelessness really captures what this generation might be wrestling with if we don’t address what's happening. Staring at screens all day, missing out on the richness of human interaction—it's no wonder they could feel like life has lost its luster.

Autumn: Understanding the root causes really leads us to look at how childhood “itself” has changed. Haidt talks a lot about this shift from play-based childhoods to a "phone-based existence." We're seeing, fundamentally, a loss of that free, risky, unstructured play—which is just vital for development. And on top of that, the culture is shifting toward overprotective parenting. So, it's creating a generation that really lacks autonomy and resilience. Rachel: So, yeah, basically kids traded in tree climbing and fort building for Candy Crush and emojis. And then we're surprised they're anxious? Okay, but let's dig into this "risky play" thing. Why is it so important? Are we just being nostalgic for scraped knees and monkey bars here? Autumn: Not at all! It's not just about fun and games, there's real science behind it. Risky play is developmental gold. When kids take risks, they learn how to deal with uncertainty. Something as simple as climbing a tree, right? They're working out their balance, checking their limits...and, okay, sometimes they fall. But that teaches them resilience — to weigh up danger and pick themselves up when things go wrong. Researchers like Ellen Sandseter and Leif Kennair have shown that risky play builds self-confidence and adaptability - key life skills. Rachel: So you're telling me one tree falling incident could have made me a better problem solver? I guess I missed that milestone when i chickened out of climbing my neighbor’s oak as a kid. But seriously, if it’s so valuable, then why are we seeing less of it? Is it just helicopter parents? Autumn: That's definitely a big part. From the 80s onward, societal fears around abduction and accidents reached a peak. News and crime shows made everything seem way more dangerous. Parents started watching over everything, even though neighborhoods are statistically safer now than they were back then. So little freedoms like biking to a friend’s house or exploring the park disappeared. And without those opportunities, kids just don't get to build that mental "muscle" of navigating risks. Rachel: Right. So instead of, “Come back when the streetlights are on,” it's, “Don’t leave the yard—oh, and here’s an iPad to keep you busy.” The irony is, that iPad is probably a bigger threat to their mental health than any boogeyman ever was. Autumn: Exactly, and that brings us to the move to digital play. Around 2010, smartphones and social media kind of hijacked childhood. Kids traded real-world adventures for screen time—Instagram, video games, YouTube. Those aren't inherently bad things, but they don't replace play that “really” challenges their imagination and emotional development. If you're outside building forts, you're inventing, problem-solving. Compare that to, you know, a curated social media feed where kids are just passive consumers, chasing likes, and trying to avoid failure at all costs. Rachel: Aah, yes, failure -- the original teacher. But now we're teaching kids to dodge it completely. So instead of falling off their bikes and learning to get back on, they're perfecting the art of the selfie. Then they're surprised when life throws them a real challenge. Autumn: That's it. And this is where Haidt gets “really” insightful. He points out how this lack of real-world skills actually creates emotional instability. Kids that don't experience failure in small doses—a scraped knee, losing a board game—don't develop the tools to cope with bigger setbacks later on. Instead, they're growing up in these emotional echo chambers, where even small obstacles feel like disasters. Rachel: Which brings me to Mike Lanza's story. This guy refused to let his kids become smartphone zombies. He created a "playborhood" in his driveway, just simple things like hula hoops and cardboard boxes. No screens, no adults managing, just kids rediscovering how to play. It's like a suburban revolt against the sanitized, hyper-digital childhood. Autumn: His example is so powerful because it shows how far we've drifted from that sense of community and unsupervised creativity. And guess what? Kids thrived in that environment. They didn't need fancy games or classes - just the freedom to imagine and explore. Lanza's driveway became a symbol of what's doable if we put play first. Rachel: Okay, that "playborhood" thing actually sounds pretty good. But, hey, let's face the elephant in the room: safetyism. Parents are trapped in this "What if?" cycle of fear. What if they get hurt? What if they're abducted? What if something happens if I let them walk to school? How do you even start to convince parents that it's okay to let go, even a little? Autumn: Well, it's tough because those fears aren't completely unfounded, they're just overblown. Haidt talks about how he let his ten-year-old son, Max, walk to school alone. He and his wife were terrified the first time, but as they saw Max succeed with these small, independent tasks, their confidence grew—and so did his. It's about taking baby steps to rebuild trust in both your kids and their environment. Over time, Max was navigating subways on his own showcasing Independence fosters resilience. Rachel: Small wins lead to bigger ones. Start with walking to the corner store, end up flying solo to college someday—and hopefully not still texting Mom for laundry advice. But not every parent can shake off the fear culture we've built, right? It's not just individual choices. It's systemic. Autumn: Yes, Haidt argues that this overprotectiveness isn't just a parenting issue, it's cultural. Urban sprawl isolates families, media sensationalism feeds the fear, even playground designs shy away from any “real” challenge. Places like Japan and Scandinavia, on the other hand, kids still walk to school alone, play in adventurous settings, bike through bustling cities. Those societies just trust kids to handle risk—and you see it in their confidence and the way they adapt. Rachel: So you're saying a nine-year-old in Tokyo can navigate the subway while we're afraid to let them cross the street by themselves? Talk about a cultural gap. How do we shift that in a society that's so hooked on the idea of control? Autumn: Haidt suggests a mix of grassroots and systemic solutions. Communities can design public spaces that actively encourage risky play. Neighborhoods can build trust with collective supervision, so parents feel more comfortable letting their kids roam. It's about shifting from "What's the worst that could happen?" to "What's the best they could learn?" Campaigns to challenge those exaggerated fears and highlight the upsides of autonomy can also help reframe the conversation. Rachel: Huh. So maybe the answer isn't just banning smartphones outright. It's about building spaces and creating incentives where kids want to ditch their screens to climb a tree or build a fort. And if we start small, like Max’s parents, maybe we can nudge our way back toward a society that trusts its kids again.

Autumn: So, after recognizing the consequences of this shift, we really need to explore how technology makes these challenges worse, don't we? Haidt really gets into it, explaining how smartphones and social media aren't just, you know, neutral tools. They're designed to be addictive. And that’s where the systemic harm comes in, harming kids in so many areas from attention to sleep and even social interaction. Rachel: Exactly, and it's pretty crazy when you stop to think about it. These aren't just accidents, right? These effects are built into the very design. The algorithms are “meant” to keep us hooked. Kids are the perfect targets. Let’s talk about the Thorndike puzzle box thing. Are we seriously comparing our children to cats trying to get treats? Autumn: <Laughs> In a way, yes, and the comparison is strangely accurate. Thorndike’s experiments showed that cats, if they got the right reward, would keep trying to get out of the puzzle box. Kids on social media are in that same loop – notifications, likes, achievements. It's like a constant reinforcement game. The algorithms are teaching them to crave that dopamine rush every time they get a digital pat on the head, a like on Instagram, or level up. But, you know, unlike the cats, these kids aren’t learning skills or solving real problems. They’re just stuck in an endless loop of instant gratification. Rachel: So, instead of learning how to navigate metaphorical puzzle boxes, real-world problems, we're conditioning them to chase meaningless buzzes and beeps. And “then” we wonder why their attention spans are nonexistent. Speaking of which, attention fragmentation. That's basically the smartphone era in a nutshell. Kids can’t focus on anything longer than a TikTok video, right? Autumn: That’s it exactly, and Haidt really breaks it down. Smartphones are constantly interrupting. Think about getting over 190 alerts. Teenagers deal with this daily, and every ping pulls their focus. It's not just the distraction itself; it's what's happening in their brains. The book shows that even having a smartphone nearby can drain brainpower because part of your brain is always waiting for that next notification. It's like a scatterbrain syndrome, a constant state of fragmented attention that makes deep focus impossible. Rachel: Wow, so even if the phone is just “there”, silently judging me, part of my brain is still thinking, "What if it buzzes?" That's wild! And it doesn't stop at focus, does it? We're talking sleep deprivation too, right? Probably some late-night "doom scrolling" thrown in? Autumn: Exactly. The book doesn't shy away from highlighting just how bad the sleep issue is. Remember when kids needed around nine hours of sleep to support their growing bodies and brains? Now, they're barely getting by on six or seven, mostly because of those glowing screens at night. The light messes with melatonin production, and social media creates emotional stress. They’re comparing their lives to the highlight reels of others or worrying about missing out. Sleep becomes a casualty, and the chronic sleep loss causes other horrible things like anxiety, depression, and even bad grades. Rachel: So, you’ve got teens who are too tired to function during the day, but they’re still glued to their phones at night, making the problem even worse. It's like a reverse hamster wheel. The more they scroll, the worse things become. Now, what about social connection? Is FaceTime actual face time anyway? Autumn: Not at all close. This one really got to me. Before smartphones, teens spent about two hours a day hanging out with friends in person. Now, it’s just over an hour, even though they're “more connected” online. Haidt says that these digital connections often bring the opposite of what they promise - loneliness, insecurity, and shallow interactions. Girls, in particular, are prone to this due to the emotional nature of their friendships. Online, things are carefully curated, competitive, and even hostile. So, they end up feeling isolated instead of supported. Rachel: Ugh, I totally see that. It’s filtered, airbrushed glam shots instead of an authentic conversation, or even a good argument with friends. Hardly a recipe for "emotional intimacy." And when the online validation isn’t sufficient, they have nowhere to turn. The social media "circle" just becomes a black hole for them. Autumn: That’s heartbreaking. Social deprivation isn’t just about not having company. It’s a loss of the skills you get from being with people. Negotiating, empathizing, conflict solving – all of those social muscles we used to flex on playgrounds aren't getting used anymore. And it’s not just hurting friendships. It's boosting loneliness, even in adults who grew up in this digital world. Rachel: Okay, Autumn, this is quite the bleak picture. But Haidt does offer solutions. How do we deal with all of this - the addiction, social deprivation, and attention fragmentation? Should we just delete TikTok? Autumn: Haidt really emphasizes that we can’t fix systemic problems with individual efforts. We need action from multiple directions, like parental boundaries, school reforms, cultural changes, and tech regulations. Let’s start with the parents. One of the biggest things is creating healthier boundaries at home. Many experts that Haidt mentions say that we should wait until at least eighth grade before giving kids smartphones. Campaigns like “Wait Until 8th” are getting popular for a reason. They help parents deal with the peer pressure to hand over devices too early. Rachel: But how does that actually work? Say I refuse to give my kid a smartphone, but all the other parents do. My kid will feel left out or, even worse, get excluded. How do I even convince the other parents to unite? Autumn: That’s tough, and Haidt knows this. That’s why things like pledges or agreements among parent groups can ease that social pressure, the pressure of feeling isolated. Think about Alexis Spence. She got a phone because her friends had one, and her parents thought that she’d be excluded if they didn’t give in. But what if those other parents had also waited? It would’ve changed things. Rachel: Gotcha, so it's like creating a new form of peer pressure - pressure to wait. That's not bad. It shifts the dynamic and makes it easier for everyone to commit to guidelines that are actually better for kids. What about the schools, though? Should we ban smartphones outright from the classrooms to save them from total chaos? Autumn: Not necessarily, but Haidt does highlight how schools with strict phone policies are part of the fix. Like Mountain Middle School. They banned phones during school, and it was beneficial right away. Kids talked to each other, they were more focused, and they had improved breaks. This created a ripple effect that improved the peer dynamics and the academic engagement. Rachel: So, no phones means actual eye contact. That’s great, of course. But I’m guessing we have to deal with the tech companies at some point, right? Autumn: Yes, and here, Haidt really pushes for reform. He wants legislative oversight for things like age verification and app design. What if platforms restricted notifications after 10pm? What if they had "sleep modes" that softened their addictiveness? Or what if the government enforced stricter age regulation to keep younger kids off these platforms? The point is to prevent companies from exploiting vulnerabilities for profit. Rachel: Sounds…ambitious, but necessary. Because as long as developers keep designing apps like slot machines, we’re not just fighting an uphill battle. We’re rolling a boulder up Mount Screen Time.

Autumn: Okay, let’s bring it all together now. Today, we “really” dug into the core of Haidt's argument in The Anxious Generation, didn't we? We linked the increase in adolescent anxiety, depression, and self-harm to how smartphones, social media, and overprotective parenting have reshaped childhood. It's a tough but vital discussion about a generation missing out on play, resilience, and real connection. Rachel: Right, and we can't forget that technology is a double-edged sword. Smartphones aren’t just tools—they've fundamentally altered the way kids experience the world. From messing with sleep to encouraging social isolation and fragmenting attention. It’s not just about being nostalgic for climbing trees; it’s about grasping how vital hands-on, real-world experiences are for building grit and confidence. Autumn: Exactly! Haidt is very clear: individual solutions just aren't going to cut it. The answer is collective action. From delaying smartphones and encouraging risky play to supporting schools and communities that choose to put kids’ mental health first, ahead of quick conveniences. It's not about demonizing screens, it’s about bringing balance and autonomy back to childhood, right? Rachel: So, what's the real takeaway here? This isn't just a problem for parents or tech companies—it's a cultural wake-up call. What kind of world are we creating if today's kids can't live freely, make mistakes, and grow into resilient adults? Maybe the real challenge isn’t to make kids safer, but to make them braver? Do you think it’s possible? Autumn: Definitely! So, here’s our call to action: think about the changes in your own life—whether you're a parent, teacher, a neighbor, or just someone who cares about the next generation. What's one thing you can do to help kids build resilience through freedom, connection, and good old-fashioned play? The future might just depend on it.