Alex: Hey everyone, welcome to the podcast! Michelle, let me start with a question for you: Real talk, how often do you find yourself checking for likes after you post something online? Michelle: Alex, you know me too well. I’d say I check, like, every “other” minute? Just gotta make sure the world still cares, you know? Alex: Right? Well, today we're diving into Susie Moore’s Stop Checking Your Likes, and honestly, it’s all about that obsession – that constant need for approval, online or off. The book basically lays out how to actually break free from that cycle. Michelle: Okay, so it's not just another "be yourself, everyone's special" speech? What makes this different? Alex: Exactly. I mean, Moore blends her own stories with a ton of humor and real-world strategies to show you how to ditch the validation-seeking and step into self-empowerment . She’s giving you the actual tools to build up your confidence and embrace who you are. Michelle: Alright, I'm intrigued. Where does she even begin with something like that? Alex: So, we're going to unpack five main areas from the book that cover that journey from chasing approval to genuine self-acceptance. First, we're tackling how to break the habit of chasing those likes and all that external validation. Then, we're diving into nurturing some unconditional self-love because, let's be honest, Michelle, we're usually our own harshest critics, right? Michelle: Oh, without a doubt. My internal monologue is basically a stand-up comedian who specializes in self-deprecation. Alex: I hear you. Then, Moore talks about turning rejection into resilience. She basically reframes it as a step forward instead of a setback. After that, we'll get into listening to your inner voice – using your intuition as your compass. Michelle: Intuition, huh? You mean like when my intuition tells me to order pizza at 2 AM? Alex: Well, we're talking about deeper decision-making here. And finally, we’ll explore how to step boldly into actually going after your dreams, armed with confidence that can't be shaken. It's basically a roadmap to a more real, joyful life, where the only "like" that really matters is the one you give yourself. Michelle: Hmm. Alright, let's see if this can actually convince me to put my phone down. Let's get into it.

Alex: Okay, Michelle, let’s dive right in, shall we? This whole idea of breaking free from external validation – it's really the core of what Moore talks about. And honestly, it's where so many of our struggles in life, both personally and professionally, begin. Michelle: Absolutely. I mean, we're practically living in an age where likes and comments dictate our mood, right? You put up a vacation snapshot – no fancy filter, maybe a slightly less-than-perfect sunset – and if it doesn't get enough attention, suddenly you're questioning your entire existence. So, what's Moore's take on this whole validation… circus? Alex: She calls it the "approval trap," which is pretty fitting. It's just this never-ending cycle where we're chasing affirmation from everyone - social media, our jobs, even our families. We let these external opinions define us, you know, usually at the expense of our own happiness. Michelle: Right, that makes sense. But I wonder, don't we actually need some external validation? I mean, if your boss isn't impressed with your work, you're probably not getting that promotion, are you? Alex: It's a fair point. Moore's not saying we should completely disregard external validation. It's more about knowing that your value as a person isn't actually tied to those external things. It's about realizing the difference between appreciating feedback and, well, needing it to feel worthy. Michelle: Okay, I get that. But how does she suggest we actually break this pattern? Because this feels pretty hardwired, doesn't it? I mean, humans have been trying to please each other since forever. Alex: Well, she starts with self-reflection, and that's so important. You need to ask yourself: Why do I actually care so much about what people think? Am I doing things because I genuinely enjoy them, or because I'm trying to impress someone? She gives the example of career choices – how people often pick a job based on its prestige, not their actual passion. I think that's a great example of how ingrained this approval thing is in our decision-making. Michelle: Wait, so you're saying people might become, say, a corporate lawyer not because they particularly care about law, but because it looks good on their LinkedIn profile? Alex: Exactly! And by the way, she doesn't hold back when it comes to social media's role in all this. Moore has this amazing way of painting a picture – she imagines aliens observing us humans constantly checking our phones for likes. I mean, imagine being an outsider looking in… it's kind of absurd, isn't it? Michelle: I'll admit, it's pretty funny when you put it that way. "So, these Earthlings derive their self-worth from strangers clicking heart symbols on pictures of their avocado toast?" Yeah, that does sound pretty insane when you break it down like that. Alex: Exactly! It really snaps you out of it. Social media's not inherently evil, but it becomes toxic when it dictates our self-esteem. Moore compares it to eating empty calories – it gives you a quick dopamine rush, but no real substance. Michelle: Alright, so how do we actually stop? Let's say I'm one of these people constantly posting pictures of my cats, eagerly awaiting the virtual applause. Where do I even start to break that cycle? Alex: She suggests reframing how you think about validation altogether. So, instead of asking, “Will people like this?” how about asking, “Does this actually bring me joy?” If you truly enjoy sharing pictures of your cats, then by all means, keep doing it – but do it for yourself, not for the likes. Michelle: So, it's shifting the audience from "them" to "me," basically. Got it. But what about bigger things – like career choices or choosing a lifestyle that's not exactly considered mainstream? That seems way harder to ignore. Alex: That's where self-ownership comes in. Moore talks about a friend of hers who turned down a high-powered job to start her own business. Everyone thought she was crazy, but it ended up being the best thing she ever did because it aligned with her values. Michelle: Let me guess – she's hugely successful now, and all the doubters are eating their hats? Alex: pretty much. The point is, she stopped waiting for everyone else to validate her choices and started trusting herself. And that's a big theme in this book – learning to rely on your internal validation rather than external. Michelle: Look, it sounds great in theory, Alex, but humans are social animals right? I mean, isn't there a risk of going too far inward and becoming… I don't know… completely self-absorbed? Alex: That’s a really good point, and Moore actually addresses it. She makes it clear that internal validation isn’t about cutting yourself off from others or becoming narcissistic. It's about building a solid foundation of self-trust so you can interact with the world genuinely – without constantly needing approval to feel okay. Michelle: Got it. So, instead of being a puppet controlled by everyone else's opinions, you're like… what? A self-driving car? Alex: Hmm, maybe that works as a metaphor! It's about having autonomy. When you're not driven by the need to impress, you can focus on the things that truly matter to you, and that's the kind of freedom Moore is talking about. Michelle: Okay, starting to get it. But there's one thing that still kind of bugs me. Even if I decide to embrace this self-driving-car mindset, how do I deal with the inevitable criticism from other people? Alex: That's where a little bit of humor and a lot of perspective come in. Moore reminds us that rejection or criticism often says more about the other person's insecurities than about you. Try to see rejection as just data – it tells you what they value, but it doesn't actually define your worth. Michelle: Hmm, so basically, if someone hates my cat memes, it's not my problem? Alex: Exactly! And if you can laugh about it, even better. One of Moore’s strategies is to meet rejection with a sense of humor and a “so what?” attitude. It’s incredibly liberating! Michelle: Alright, Alex, this is starting to click. Let me try out a new mantra: "So what if nobody likes my tacos or my memes – I like them, and that's what actually matters." Alex: Yes! Now you’re getting it, Michelle! It's a journey, but once you stop letting likes – or the lack of them – define you, it’s amazing how much lighter you will feel.

Alex: So understanding how we shift away from that need for everyone else's approval? That's really the first step to breaking down some deep psychological barriers. Because once you stop needing that external validation, the next question becomes: how do you actually believe in yourself? Michelle: Right, right. I was picturing a lot of hand-holding and affirmations. But I'm guessing there's a bit more to it, right? Alex: Oh, absolutely. You know, Moore talks about how building that foundation of self-love can be surprisingly complex. Without it, she argues, we often end up constantly chasing approval because we just haven't learned to like ourselves without conditions. Michelle: Ah, “unconditionally.” Now that's a loaded word. So, we're not just talking about feeling good when we ace a presentation or get an award, right? It's about being okay with ourselves even when things go south? Alex: Exactly! Actually, Moore goes all-in with “unconditional self-love” to really underscore that point. She explains that a lot of people only feel “worthy” if they've got the right title, the achievement, the approval from others. But she believes real self-worth needs to stand alone, apart from all of that. Michelle: Okay, but let's be real. Unconditional love sounds nice, but don't accomplishments matter? Isn't that how we measure our progress? We can't just ignore them, can we? Alex: No, accomplishments definitely matter! They demonstrate your abilities. But here, it's about ensuring they don't dictate your worth as a person. Actually, Moore offers the perfect analogy—she compares external validation to junk food. It gives you that quick burst, but it doesn't nourish you in any lasting way. Michelle: Okay, simple, but it makes sense. So what's her solution? How do we build this “inner validation” she's talking about? What's the first step? Alex: Well, she's got some really practical exercises. Let's start with one of the most moving ones: the “Loving Little Me” technique. Michelle: Alright, that sounds intriguing already. What’s the deal? What's the idea behind it? Alex: It's about tapping into self-compassion by connecting with your younger self. She suggests finding a childhood photo – the younger, the better! – and keeping that as a reminder whenever you're being too hard on yourself. Michelle: So, like, eight-year-old me with my first baseball glove? Something like that? Alex: Exactly! But Moore stresses that it's not about what you did in that photo, but about that specific version of you. She asks you to really look at that child – the wonder, the innocence, the potential… Then, when that negative self-talk starts creeping in, you redirect your compassionate words toward that child. Michelle: Okay, that feels...intense, a little. I get the logic, but why the focus on the past? Alex: Because those unhealthy beliefs about our worth – that we have to perform, achieve, be something to be loved – often start in childhood. Moore's using this exercise to reframe that thinking and to nurture ourselves in the way we might have needed back then. Michelle: Fair. I guess telling little Michelle, “Hey, you're doing great,” would feel pretty different than berating myself for adult mistakes. Alex: That's the idea! Moore shares how it helped her with some deep feelings of shame from her own upbringing. Her childhood wasn't exactly smooth sailing—there was a lot of chaos, emotional neglect, instability. Revisiting those memories with empathy and kind words helped her heal that inner part of herself that was still carrying that pain and insecurity. Michelle: So it's like giving past-you a hug and saying, “We're in this together,” no matter what. Kind of simple, but powerful. Alex: Exactly. And hey, that's just one tool! Another great technique Moore highlights for cultivating self-love is “acknowledging achievements.” Michelle: Let me guess – we're making lists and patting ourselves on the back? Alex: More or less! But it's deeper than it sounds, trust me. We're often so used to tearing ourselves apart that we completely overlook everything we have done. Take Elle, for example – a lawyer Moore talks about in the book. On the outside, she had it all: successful career, family, financial security. But deep down, she felt empty, like she wasn't enough. Michelle: That's super relatable. Lots of people look like they're on top of the world but are secretly beating themselves up. So what changed for Elle? Alex: Moore guided her to list even the smallest accomplishments she'd achieved in her life. Elle thought it was a little silly at first, but it worked! By the end of the exercise, she wasn't just listing promotions, she remembered the emotional resilience, creativity, and effort that went into each achievement. Michelle: So, it's less about the outcome, and more about recognizing the journey, right? What it took to get there. Alex: Exactly. It's about reframing those achievements as proof of your strength and competence, not just another box ticked off. And the result? Elle started feeling this natural pride and acknowledgment of her intrinsic worth. Michelle: Okay, I can see why that works. I mean, when's the last time anyone stopped to celebrate just getting through a tough week? Alex: Exactly! Moore shows how acknowledging those moments silences our inner critic and allows us to focus on our strengths instead of our perceived flaws. Michelle: Alright, Alex, you've convinced me on these tools. But the inner critic isn't going away overnight. What happens when someone’s self-narrative is really stuck in perfectionism or fear of judgment? Is there a way to actually rewire that voice? Alex: Moore emphasizes starting small. She suggests asking yourself: “Can I like myself a little more…just for today?” It's not about completely erasing self-doubt, it's about shifting the inner dialogue a little bit at a time, in the direction of self-compassion. Michelle: So, don’t jump straight to “I love me, flaws and all.” Just look for baby steps? Alex: Exactly. And when you start shifting those narratives, even a little bit, it builds momentum. And the beautiful part is that frees up energy to live authentically, instead of chasing some impossible ideal. Michelle: Alright, I have to admit, reframing the narrative and tackling those inner critics sounds a lot smarter than I thought it would. Less fluffy, more actionable. Alex: Well, that's really the strength of Moore's approach – it's practical, yet deeply emotional. When you focus on self-love, you're transforming your foundation, and that changes everything.

Alex: Okay, so we've talked about self-love as a foundation. Now, Michelle, let's dive into dealing with life's inevitable rejections. Moore has some great strategies here. It really builds emotional resilience, helping you trust your gut and handle setbacks with a bit of humor and a fresh perspective. Michelle: Rejection? Criticism? Sounds like my daily bread! So, Moore wants us to, like, embrace the stuff we avoid? That’s… ambitious. Alex: Exactly! It's not just about accepting that rejection happens; she actually gives you ways to transform it into growth. Things like adopting a "So what?" attitude and using humor to diffuse criticism. The idea is to take the sting out of these moments and see them as stepping stones, not roadblocks. Michelle: This "So what?" thing… sounds like teenage rebellion. But I’m guessing she’s got a bit more depth to it. Alex: Absolutely. It's about perspective. Instead of letting rejection crush you, you ask, "Really, how much does this actually matter?" It's a way to detach from the fear of what others think and realize setbacks are just minor bumps in the road." Michelle: Okay, okay, theory sounds decent. But can you really laugh at rejection? Give me a real-world example. Alex: Right, so Moore shares her own experience. She submitted an article she was really passionate about, and it got rejected. Ouch, right? But instead of getting down on herself, she used humor. She joked, "So what if they didn’t want it? Maybe they just couldn’t handle my genius!" It lightened the mood and helped her get back on track. Michelle: I appreciate the bounce-back, but isn’t that, like, sweeping it under the rug? Shouldn’t you analyze what went wrong or something? Alex: That’s the key! It’s not ignoring it, it's reframing it so you don’t take it personally. Humor makes room to ask constructive questions, without the emotional baggage. It makes reflection less scary! Michelle: Rejection becomes data, not an existential crisis. Gotcha. What else has she got? Alex: Okay, this one's good. Moore overheard two friends talking at a coffee shop, commiserating about a failed business venture – a venture that lost millions! But instead of wallowing, one of them laughed and said, "Well, at least we’ll have a killer story!" That one moment changed how they viewed it – from a crushing defeat to an… experience. Michelle: Losing millions and laughing? I... alright. Humor deflates the power of failure, I see that. But what about the embarrassment factor? Doesn't that need to be addressed? Alex: Definitely. Moore tells a story about a colleague pointing out a huge mistake in one of her presentations. Most of us would cringe and want to disappear, but Moore later laughed about it with friends. By owning the mistake and making light of it, she turned it into a personal growth opportunity. Michelle: Okay, okay. Humor works for small stuff – a typo, a social gaffe. But what about deeper cuts? What about criticism that feels personal, or impacts your actual career? Alex: That’s where Moore talks about rejection as a stepping stone. She says there's a lesson in every rejection, even if it hurts. Does it point out something you need to improve? Or is it just a matter of someone's personal preferences, not your value? By making it a learning experience, you stop fearing it. She even suggests intentionally exposing yourself to rejection – small doses at first to build tolerance. Michelle: So, like a "rejection diet"? We just get turned down until we’re… immune? Alex: Pretty much! It’s like building a muscle. You don’t become resilient overnight. Moore suggests little experiments… like pitching an idea, or asking for something unusual, just to get used to hearing "no." It’s about normalizing it so it doesn't destroy your confidence. Michelle: I'm picturing myself asking strangers for money. Things could get weird, quickly. Alex: It’s not about making people uncomfortable, Michelle! It's about desensitizing yourself to those feelings of shame or insecurity so you can bounce back. Rejection stings less over time, and your self-worth gets stronger. Michelle: Okay, fine. Say I can laugh off failures. What about perfectionism? People tie their worth to getting everything right. How does Moore handle that? Alex: She’s adamant that perfectionism is a trap. It comes from fear of judgment, and the mistaken idea that we have to be flawless to be accepted or successful. Moore says embracing our imperfections, even laughing at them, is what makes life real and actually leads to success. She tells this hilarious story about spilling red wine on a white suit in Paris. It could've been mortifying, but it became a funny, memorable moment because everyone laughed. Michelle: I’m not sure if that's charming or horrifying. But yes, we’re human. Mistakes will happen. But how do you break that cycle of expecting everything to be perfect? Alex: Moore says you should actively reflect on, and celebrate, your imperfections. When something goes wrong, ask yourself: "What can I learn from this?" or "How can this bring me closer to others?" By sharing those moments with humor, you connect with people on a deeper level and you build your resilience. Michelle: Transforming a mistake into a bridge rather than a wall. Interesting. So, what’s her ultimate goal with all this? Alex: Freedom, Michelle. Freedom from fearing failure and judgment. The ability to live life authentically, knowing rejection doesn't define you. When you use those tools, like the "So what?" attitude and humor, setbacks lose their power, and your sense of self is unbreakable. Michelle: Alright, Alex. I’m not sure I can laugh off rejection quite yet, but I see the point. Maybe next time life throws some "no's" my way, I'll try a little "so what?" and see what happens.

Alex: So, once we've got some resilience under our belts, the next step is really learning to trust our instincts when it comes to making decisions, both personally and professionally. This is Moore’s next big idea—trusting our intuition and listening to that inner voice. And it's pretty practical, because everything we've talked about so far—ditching the need for everyone else's approval, building our own self-love—it all leads to this: learning to follow that inner compass of ours. It's how we take all those lessons and actually apply them to living authentically and, you know, finding our own definition of success. Michelle: Okay, "intuition." Let me guess – this is about that whole "gut feeling" thing when you're, like, trying to decide whether to quit your job, adopt a dog, or go with peanut butter instead of almond butter? Alex: You're not entirely wrong! Moore kind of frames intuition as our internal GPS. She basically says that our inner voice usually knows what’s right for us way before we consciously figure it out. But the issue is, we usually drown it out, right? We second-guess everything, ask a million people for their opinions, and then we get stuck in this whole “approval loop” where we’re too busy trying to get outside validation to even hear what we knew all along. Michelle: Okay, but hold on a sec. Isn’t getting a second opinion sometimes… a good idea? I mean, my gut tells me I’d make a fantastic astronaut, but maybe I should check in with NASA before I go blasting off. Alex: Definitely. And Moore isn't suggesting that we turn into these hermits who ignore all advice. Her point is, that first feeling – that initial gut reaction – is often the one that's most in line with who we are. The trick is to actually pay attention to that little voice before the doubts and other peoples' opinions drown it out. She actually tells a really great story about a toxic friendship that “really” illustrates this perfectly. Michelle: Ooh, a toxic friendship? Sounds juicy. I'm intrigued. Alex: Right? So, Moore had this friend, Maggie, who, over time, just became a huge drain on her emotionally. Pretty early on, she had this instinct – this little gut feeling – that maybe the friendship wasn’t actually healthy for her. But instead of trusting that, she sought outside opinions. She asked her husband, her other friends, even her coworkers, if she was overreacting. And most of them were like, “Oh, give Maggie a break, she's probably going through something.” So she just brushed her intuition aside...until the friendship started seriously messing with her well-being. Michelle: Let me guess, every time Maggie called, it was like a soul-sucking experience? Alex: Exactly! Eventually, it just clicked –every interaction with Maggie left her feeling super anxious and drained. And that was the wake-up call she needed to finally listen to her initial feeling. She didn’t overthink it; she just quietly ended the friendship. And it was so empowering. Moore reflects on how much relief and clarity came from that decision – because she finally got back in touch with that inner voice. Michelle: Okay, I get the picture. Ignoring your gut just lets things get worse. But, Maggie aside, why do we ignore intuition in the first place? Is it just a fear of conflict, or what? Alex: Well, partly. But it’s also conditioning, right? Moore explains that we’re taught—especially when we're growing up—to conform, be polite, and trust authority figures over our own instincts. She gives this really tough example, Colleen Stan, from the book. She was hitchhiking back in the '70s and just got a bad feeling about this car that stopped. But instead of saying no, she ignored her gut because she didn’t want to be rude to the driver. And that ride ended up with her being held captive for seven years. Michelle: Wow. That’s… intense. And also a little too real – how often do we put being nice ahead of protecting ourselves, even in small ways? Alex: Exactly! Moore uses that story to “really” push us to unlearn those kinds of societal pressures. She reminds us that intuition isn’t just some airy-fairy feeling; it’s often rooted in our subconscious processing of real, concrete cues. Ignoring it, especially when it comes to safety, can have awful consequences. Michelle: Right, so ignoring your gut isn’t just about small stuff like friendships, it can be about survival. Okay, but what if your gut's wrong? You know, you follow an instinct, take a chance, and it blows up in your face? Alex: And that's where Moore “really” shines, because she doesn't sugarcoat it. She acknowledges that intuition doesn’t always lead to a win, but that the failures it leads to are never pointless. It’s a learning experience. She calls it the "reframe strategy." Say you trust your instinct to join a new company. If it doesn’t work out, you end up understanding more about the kind of career path that actually suits you. Each "mistake" kind of fine-tunes your intuition. Michelle: So even a misstep helps to refine the compass. Got it. But how do we actually strengthen that compass in the first place? Is it just about going through trial and error? Alex: Well, partly. But she gives some useful tools. One technique she suggests is creating moments of stillness. In our super noisy, overstimulated world, we hardly ever give ourselves the space to even hear that inner voice. Moore suggests journaling or meditating with a single question in mind – “What is my intuition telling me about this decision?” – and just kind of sitting with the answer without judging it. Michelle: Okay, but meditating feels kind of abstract. What if you're in a situation where you need to make a decision quickly? Alex: Okay, that's where her "Pause and Ask" technique comes in. Before you ask anyone else, pause, and ask yourself directly, "What does my gut say?" And doing this, even in small moments—like picking a restaurant—teaches you to put your own voice first over outside noise. Acting on those smaller instincts gradually builds up confidence for when the bigger decisions come along. Michelle: So, it’s like training wheels for your intuition. You start with taco night, and then you work your way up to making career moves. Alex: Exactly! And the best part? The more you act on these instincts, the stronger your trust becomes. Another method she likes is intentional reframing. When something doesn’t go as planned, ask yourself, "What did this experience teach me about myself?" It’s about seeing even less-than-perfect outcomes as steps forward. Michelle: Alex, this all sounds pretty great, but what about the people out there, the cynics, who think intuition isn’t “logical” enough to base big decisions on? Alex: Moore argues that logic and intuition aren’t “really” opposites – they actually complement each other. She says that intuition often works faster because it uses subconscious knowledge and past experiences. Think of it as your emotional intelligence operating at super speed. Logic can help refine it, for sure, but your gut is what starts the conversation. Michelle: Okay, that's a solid defense. So, intuition gets the ball rolling, and logic cleans up the mess. One last thing: What’s her ultimate goal in teaching people to trust their inner voice? Alex: It's freedom. Intuition helps us stop second-guessing every single move and start living more authentically. Moore puts it “really” well: “You have an undeletable permission slip within you to follow your instincts.” That is the level of self-trust she wants her readers to cultivate. So that when those big decisions pop up, they're coming from a place of alignment, not fear. Michelle: Alright. Self-trust is starting to sound actually like a superpower I'd like to try to develop. Maybe next time my gut says tacos, I’ll actually trust it. Baby steps, Alex, baby steps.

Alex: And finally, after building that self-trust, the book really gets down to brass tacks with actionable steps for finding fulfillment and joy. Michelle, this is where it all comes together, right? All that work we talked about—self-love, reframing rejection, trusting your gut—it all leads to this. It isn’t just about, you know, thinking happy thoughts. It’s about turning that inner clarity into real-world action. Michelle: Right, so here’s the payoff—taking action. Makes sense. But I bet it’s not just about, like, motivational speeches and blindly leaping into the void, right? What's the reasoning behind this step, Alex? Alex: Exactly. This is the culmination – translating internal growth into tangible, external action. Susie Moore emphasizes that fulfillment won’t just magically appear; it’s about taking conscious, brave steps toward, well, what you truly want. Whether that's a career move, a personal ambition, or even simply voicing what you need day-to-day. Michelle: Wait a minute—just simply asking for what you want? That sounds… almost too easy. Alex: Exactly her point, Michelle! Moore argues that straightforward asking is possibly the single most undervalued and overlooked action we can take. So many people don't even bother to ask because they're terrified of rejection or being labeled "too much." Moore reframes this. She sees asking as a form of self-advocacy—because let’s face it, if you don’t ask, the answer is already a no. Michelle: Okay, I get why people avoid it. Rejection stings! But give me a concrete example—something relatable—of how this asking thing worked for Moore. Alex: She tells this amazing story about how she met her husband. She was at a concert, spotted somebody across the room, and went straight up to him and gave him her phone number. Totally bold, right? She almost didn't do it, sure, but then thought to herself, "What do I have to lose?" Fast forward a decade, and they're happily married. It’s just a perfect illustration of how a single instance of asking, of putting yourself out there, can literally change your life's trajectory. Michelle: Okay, romantic comedies just entered the chat. But seriously, Alex, handing out phone numbers at concerts isn’t exactly everyone’s cup of tea. What’s the bigger takeaway here? Alex: The real point is that Moore's story isn’t just about romance. It’s about facing that fear of rejection, that's a hurdle for everybody. She points out how many people self-sabotage by not seeking what they want: a raise, pitching their next big idea, or any desire, because they are crippled by "what if they say no?". Instead, Moore suggests we ask ourselves, "What's the absolute worst that can happen if they say no? And is it “really” that terrible?" Michelle: Fair enough. But let’s get practical – how do you balance being bold and going after things without crossing the line into being pushy or acting entitled, you know? Alex: That boils down to preparation. Moore champions something she calls “asking with clarity and gratitude.” It’s not about entitlement; it's about initiating the conversation with a solid understanding of where you're coming from and framing it in a positive light, like it's a collaboration. So, instead of just flat-out demanding a raise, you might say something like, "I “really” value my contribution to this team, and I'd “really” like to discuss how we can reflect that contribution in my compensation moving forward." See the difference? Michelle: Yeah, that’s a way smoother opener than just shouting, "Show me the money!". But, let’s address what everyone’s thinking - what if the answer’s still no? Alex: Moore has a whole strategy for that. She wants people to reframe rejection as a lesson, not a dead end. Treat that "no" as a simple redirection—an opportunity to reassess where you're headed, fine-tune your approach, or try a different path. And, naturally, a little humor never hurts. She even suggests, get this, “rejection exposure therapy”—actively putting yourself out there where "no" is possible, just to toughen yourself up. Michelle: So, the more "no’s" you rack up, the less scary they become. Counterintuitive, sure, but I see how that could work. Got any examples of this playing out in real life? Alex: She tells this great story of a young woman she worked with when she was in recruiting. Even though this woman was technically underqualified, she confidently asked for a higher salary and flexible hours, to accommodate her kid's school activities. Apparently, her sheer confidence—and her ability to clearly and concisely state what she needed—convinced them to hire her on her terms! It’s a profound reminder that confident negotiation isn’t about arrogance; it’s about truly valuing yourself. Michelle: I’m impressed. Let me play devil’s advocate here - are there limits to this "just ask" philosophy? Seems like there’d be situations where just pushing harder isn’t the answer. Alex: Absolutely, and Moore's very clear that timing and context are everything. Think of asking like developing a skill, it’s not a universal fix. The key isn’t just charging ahead, it's recognizing when an opportunity genuinely aligns with your values and long-term goals. If not, then asking probably is pointless, but, also, that in itself can be an act of self-respect. Michelle: That makes sense. It’s not about blindly demanding everything you want, it’s about aligning what you do with the bigger picture you have for yourself. But, Alex, what about the fear of failure that's always lurking there? Even if you summon the courage to ask, isn't there still that voice whispering, "What if you screw this up?" Alex: That's when you lean into Moore's mantra: "How can I make this easier?" The question helps change your mindset away from your fears and towards strategy. Say you’re nervous about a tough negotiation, break it all down into manageable steps. For example? Prepare your key talking points ahead of time, maybe practice the conversation with a friend. It’s about taking away the stress so you can just focus on asking, not everything that could go wrong. Michelle: So basically, you stop overcomplicating everything. Easier said than done, Alex, but I get it. Does Moore suggest anything else, to make these tough conversations seem less scary? Alex: Gratitude is key. She recommends kicking off any high-stakes encounter—like a big ask or a complex negotiation—by acknowledging what the other person brings to the table. Asking your boss for a raise? Start by thanking them for the opportunities, the chance to grow, the support they've given you. It “really” sets a positive, collaborative tone, instead of making it feel like you're immediately on opposite sides. Michelle: Turning up with an olive branch instead of battle armor. Okay, already feeling a bit less stressed. One last question, though – does Moore talk about how you actually measure success with all this? How do you “really” know if you’re finding actual fulfillment by taking action? Alex: Yes, she does! It begins with understanding—defining what success and fulfillment actually mean to you. Moore stresses the importance of pinpointing your desires upfront. Do you want to pursue a creative outlet? Achieve financial independence? Maybe just strike a better balance between work and life? Once you have that, you measure your progress by asking yourself, "Am I actively making choices that support this goal?" Ultimately, it’s about prioritizing authenticity in your actions, not perfection. Michelle: Alright, Alex, you’ve convinced me. I think I actually might put some of this “just ask” stuff into practice. Start small, though. Maybe I’ll hit up our producer for… oh, I don’t know, better snacks here in the studio. Alex: And if they say no, Michelle? Michelle: I’ll laugh it off, of course. Who knows, it’s a perfect chance to build some resilience. …and then I’ll ask for pizza next time.

Alex: Okay, Michelle, let's bring this home. Today we “really” dug into some great insights from Stop Checking Your Likes. Susie Moore really takes us from this place of constantly seeking external validation to actually embracing self-love, reframing our perspective on rejection, really trusting our gut, and taking decisive action towards truly living a more fulfilling life. Michelle: Right, and that common thread throughout? It’s that freedom, right? The freedom to finally stop letting those likes, or other people's opinions, or even painful rejections dictate how we value ourselves. It's all about owning your narrative and living genuinely, and really building up a solid foundation of resilience and really trusting yourself. Now, that’s not easy... Alex: Definitely. So for our listeners, the big takeaway is: start realistically—start small. Maybe it's just noticing where you're seeking that external approval, practicing a little self-compassion, or simply asking for something that you actually want. Even these little tiny shifts can create momentum towards living a life that's truly driven by passion and purpose. Michelle: Or, you know, if all else fails, just try the "so what?" approach. Seriously, that one simple question might just transform how you deal with rejection, whether that's a promotion that you missed out on or, I don’t know, a cat meme that didn't get enough love. Alex: Exactly, Michelle. So to all of our listeners, seriously, stop checking those likes, and start creating a life that ultimately doesn’t actually need them. Just take that initial step towards really trusting yourself today. Michelle: And if absolutely nothing else, just remember that rejection isn’t the apocalypse. It's just… data. So, Alex, what’s on our radar next week? I don't know, consulting our intuition on what's for dinner? Alex: Hmm, actually, that sounds like the perfect place to start. Let's trust the process. Thanks everyone for listening!