Mark: Okay, Michelle, quick improv. You're a high-achieving CEO giving a press conference. I'm a reporter. "Ma'am, you've tripled profits and landed on every '30 Under 30' list. What's your secret?" Michelle: (In a deadpan, slightly exhausted voice) "My secret? Crying in my car during my lunch break and a deep, unshakable belief that I'm one mistake away from total disaster. Next question." Mark: And that right there is the exact feeling at the heart of the book we're diving into today: "Smart Girls Screw Up Too" by Bella Zanesco. Michelle: I love that title. It’s so validating. It’s not "Smart Girls Don't Screw Up," it's "Yeah, you do, and here's the deal." Mark: Exactly. And Bella Zanesco is the perfect person to write this. This isn't just a theoretical guide. She has one of the most incredible comeback stories I've ever read. She was a high-flying corporate strategist, driving over $5 billion in revenue for huge companies. Michelle: Wow, okay. So she's the definition of a "Smart Girl." Mark: Absolutely. But behind the scenes, she hit a wall. Hard. We're talking complete burnout, adrenal failure, and deep depression. She had to press a total reset button on her life. And from that rock bottom, she rebuilt everything and went on to become a world champion sailor. Michelle: Hold on. From corporate burnout to world champion sailor? That’s not a small pivot. So she's not just talking theory, she's lived the most extreme version of this. Mark: She is the case study. And her book is the manual she created from that experience, blending her own story with neuroscience, ancient wisdom, and research on thousands of women. It’s a no-nonsense guide to getting off what she calls the 'downside' of life.

Michelle: I think we all know that 'downside' feeling. It’s that gap between how your life looks on paper and how it actually feels on a random Tuesday night. Mark: That’s the perfect description. Zanesco opens the book with her own 'downside' moment, and it’s incredibly raw. She had what she thought was the perfect life plan, including a relationship she was sure was heading towards marriage. And then, her partner hits her with two words: "It's over." Michelle: Oh, brutal. The two words that can just shatter everything. Mark: And it did. She describes falling into a deep depression, feeling like a vase that had been smashed. You can glue the pieces back together, but the cracks are always there. She tried all the typical coping mechanisms—dating apps, shopping, drinking—but nothing worked. The feeling of being broken just wouldn't go away. Michelle: I think a lot of people can relate to that. You go through a big life event, a breakup, a job loss, and you feel fundamentally changed by it. But what makes that a central theme for the whole book? Mark: Because Zanesco realized it wasn't just about the breakup. That event was a trigger for something much deeper, something she calls the 'Source Wound.' Michelle: Okay, a 'Source Wound'? That sounds a little... therapeutic-jargon-y. What does that actually mean for someone who just feels burnt out at their job or unhappy in their relationship? Mark: It's a great question. She defines it as the first time you were deeply hurt, usually in childhood, and the story you told yourself about it. For her, the Source Wound was her parents' separation when she was seven. The story she unconsciously created was: "The people I love will always leave me." Michelle: Ah, I see. So that belief, that wound, was just sitting there, dormant. Mark: Exactly. And then the breakup happened, and it didn't just feel like a breakup; it felt like confirmation of her deepest fear. It activated what she calls her 'Core Limiting Belief,' which for her was, "I am not good enough to be loved." This is the engine that drives the screw-ups. She would unconsciously sabotage relationships to prove her belief right, to leave before she could be left. Michelle: Wow. That reframes everything. It means our screw-ups aren't just random acts of poor judgment. They're patterns, driven by a story we might not even know we're telling ourselves. Mark: Precisely. And Zanesco argues that until you identify that Source Wound and the limiting belief it created, you'll just keep repeating the same patterns, sticking yourself on the 'downside' again and again. It’s like trying to fix a leaky roof by rearranging the buckets on the floor instead of patching the hole. Michelle: Is it always that dramatic, like a parental divorce? Or can a Source Wound be something smaller, like being shamed for a drawing in 3rd grade? Mark: It absolutely can be. Zanesco actually references the work of researcher Brené Brown, who found that something like 85% of people have 'creativity scars' from a shaming event in childhood. A teacher laughing at your drawing, being told you can't sing. These small moments can create a powerful Core Limiting Belief like "I'm not creative" or "My voice doesn't matter," which then dictates your choices for decades. Michelle: Okay, so you identify this wound. You figure out the old, dusty story you've been running on. What's next? You can't just know it and be fixed, right? Mark: Not at all. And that's the most important part of the book. That's what Zanesco calls 'The Inside Job.' It's not about thinking your way out; it's about rebuilding from the inside out.

Michelle: 'The Inside Job.' I like that. It implies it’s work that no one else can do for you. So where does she start? Mark: She starts with the body. Not in a "go to the gym and get a six-pack" way, but in a much deeper, more holistic sense. She has chapters on yoga, gut health, hormones, and meditation. For her, yoga was a game-changer. She had chronic back pain and was terrified of becoming limited as she aged. Michelle: Been there. You sneeze wrong and your whole week is ruined. Mark: Exactly. She started yoga reluctantly, feeling uncoordinated and weak. But she says yoga is like a 'mirror' to your life. How you react on the mat—when you're frustrated, when you want to give up, when you compare yourself to the person next to you—is exactly how you react in life. It’s a training ground for self-awareness. Michelle: That’s a great way to put it. It’s not about the pose, it’s about what the pose reveals about you. But she goes deeper, right? Into the science of it? Mark: She does. She talks about the gut-brain axis, calling the gut our 'second brain.' It produces most of our body's serotonin, the happiness chemical. When her gut was a mess from stress and poor diet, her mood was a mess. Healing her gut was fundamental to healing her mind. Michelle: So, my gut feeling is literally... a gut feeling? It's connected to my digestion? That's wild. It makes you think about how we separate mental and physical health, when they're completely intertwined. Mark: Completely. And this all connects to what she calls waking up your 'Braveheart.' This is her term for your intuition, your heart's wisdom. She argues that we live in a 'yang' dominated world—all about logic, action, and thinking. We've suppressed the 'yin'—feeling, intuition, and being. Michelle: We're 'human doings' instead of 'human beings.' Mark: Perfectly said. And her story for how she learned to access her 'Braveheart' is my favorite in the book. She was in Thailand, feeling lost, and saw this 81-year-old woman in a 'Happy Yogi' t-shirt. She was just drawn to her. Michelle: I love that. Just a gut pull towards someone. Mark: She ended up spending the day with this woman, Kingkao, who was a revered anesthetist and a dedicated meditator. Kingkao gave her one piece of advice that changed everything: "Be kind to yourself first, then you can be kind to others." Michelle: That sounds so simple, but it's the hardest thing in the world to actually do, especially for high-achievers. How does she make that practical? Mark: Kingkao taught her a mirror technique. Every day, look in the mirror and shower yourself with compliments and affirmations. Zanesco said it felt ridiculous at first, but over time, it rewired her brain. She started to believe it. That self-compassion was the key to unlocking her 'Braveheart' and trusting her own intuition again. Michelle: So the 'Inside Job' is this combination of physical healing through things like yoga and gut health, and emotional healing through radical self-compassion. Mark: Yes. And once that inner foundation is solid, the work moves outward. Zanesco argues that your external world should be a reflection of your internal state, not a source of constant stress.

Michelle: Okay, this is where the rubber meets the road for a lot of people. It's one thing to meditate and eat well, but it's another to deal with a toxic job or a draining social life. Mark: This is what she calls 'The Outside Job,' and her guiding metaphor is brilliant. She calls it 'fumigating the cockroaches.' Michelle: (Laughs) I love that. It's so visceral. Tell me more. Mark: She tells this story about living in a messy house with a messy boyfriend. One day, she reaches for a bowl and finds cockroach poop in it. And in that moment, she has this revelation: "How much of the mess in my life is being caused by the mess in my surroundings?" The cockroach poop wasn't the problem; it was a symptom of a life that needed fumigating. Michelle: So the 'cockroaches' are the things in your life that are secretly dirtying everything else. Mark: Exactly. It could be a toxic job, a draining friendship, a cluttered home, or even a negative social media feed. She realized she had to fumigate all of it. She left the boyfriend, got a clean apartment, and then turned her attention to her job, where she had a 'bully cockroach.' She eventually left that job too. It's about consciously curating your environments so they energize you instead of drain you. Michelle: That's so empowering. It’s not about just surviving your environment, but actively creating one that supports you. She also talks about friendships, right? Not just avoiding the toxic ones. Mark: Yes, she says you need to build your 'tribe.' She uses research from the anthropologist Robin Dunbar, who argues we can only maintain about five truly close, intense relationships. Zanesco says we need to be intentional about who is in that inner circle. Michelle: Most of us just have friends we've collected over the years. How do you consciously build a tribe like that? Mark: She suggests your inner circle should have six archetypes. For example, you need a 'Catalyst'—someone who inspires you to take action. You need a 'Nurturer'—someone who offers unconditional support. A 'Challenger'—someone who pushes you to be better and calls you on your stuff. It’s about creating a balanced support system. Michelle: It’s like building a personal board of directors for your life. That’s a much more strategic way to think about friendship. And what about work? So many people feel stuck in jobs they hate but can't afford to leave. Mark: She's very practical about this. She says it's okay to stay in a job for the money, but only if that money is funding a passion or a life you love outside of work. If the money is just funding a lifestyle of misery, it's a bad trade. She advocates for starting a 'side-hustle' to test out a passion before taking a huge leap. She's a 'positive realist,' not an optimistic rookie. Michelle: I appreciate that realism. 'Follow your passion' is terrible advice if you can't pay your rent. The idea of experimenting on the side feels much safer and smarter. Mark: It all comes back to curating. You curate your home, your friends, your career, your hobbies. You become the architect of your life, not just a tenant reacting to whatever comes your way.

Michelle: When you lay it all out like that, it’s such a clear and powerful roadmap. It’s not just a collection of tips; it's a sequential process. Mark: It really is. It’s a powerful sequence: first, recognize the old story from your Source Wound that's driving your screw-ups. Second, do the deep 'Inside Job' of healing your body and mind to awaken your 'Braveheart.' And third, use that inner strength to do the 'Outside Job'—to become the architect of your own life. Michelle: So the big takeaway isn't just 'don't screw up,' it's 'screw up smarter.' Understand why you're doing it, so you can finally stop the pattern. It’s about moving from being a victim of your circumstances to the creator of your reality. Mark: That's the essence of it. And it doesn't have to start with some massive, life-altering decision. Zanesco's journey to becoming a world champion started with small, consistent steps. Michelle: Right, she started with a green smoothie. Mark: Exactly. Her first step in the book is often just making a list of your problems and then a list of your desired feelings. It's that simple. Maybe that's the one thing to try this week. Just get honest about where you are and where you want to be. Michelle: I love that as a first step. It feels manageable. I'd be really curious to hear what our listeners think. What's one 'cockroach' you'd fumigate from your life if you could? A habit, a person, a messy corner of your house? Let us know on our socials. It’s a powerful question to ask. Mark: It is. This book is a reminder that you have the power to change, and that your past screw-ups don't define your future. They can actually be the 'golden glue,' as she calls it, that makes you stronger and more beautiful. Michelle: A perfect way to end. Mark: This is Aibrary, signing off.