Olivia: Here’s a statement that sounds completely contradictory: Gender has never mattered more than it does right now. And, at the same time, it has never mattered less. Jackson: Hold on, how can both of those be true? That feels like saying it’s the best of times and the worst of times. It sounds profound, but my brain is short-circuiting trying to make sense of it. Olivia: It’s the perfect kind of paradox, isn't it? And it’s the exact puzzle that sits at the heart of a really unique book we’re diving into today: She/He/They/Me: For the Sisters, Misters, and Binary Resisters by Robyn Ryle. Jackson: Okay, with a title like that, I'm guessing she has some thoughts on this. Olivia: She definitely does. And what's so brilliant is how Ryle, who is a sociology professor, tackles this. She didn't write a dense academic textbook. Instead, she wrote it in a 'choose-your-own-adventure' format. Jackson: Wait, really? Like, "If you decide to conform to gender norms, turn to page 54. If you decide to smash the patriarchy, turn to page 82"? Olivia: Pretty much! It’s a genius way to make you experience these complex ideas about gender identity instead of just reading about them. It’s so effective that it was recognized as an ALA Stonewall Book Award Honoree for its contribution to LGBTQ+ literature. It invites you to play and explore. Jackson: I love that. It takes the topic from being this heavy, intimidating thing and turns it into a personal journey. So, let's start with that paradox. Break it down for me. How on earth can gender matter more than ever before?

Olivia: Well, Ryle points out that gender is hyper-visible right now. Think about it. It’s in our politics, our social media feeds with debates over pronouns, in pop culture. It’s a constant, loud conversation. And for many people around the world, gender isn't just a conversation; it's a matter of life and death. Jackson: You mean in places where rights are severely restricted based on gender? Olivia: Exactly. The book brings up the story of Malala Yousafzai, which is such a powerful illustration of this. We all know her name, but it’s worth remembering the specifics. In the early 2000s, the Taliban took control of the Swat Valley in Pakistan and imposed incredibly strict rules, one of which was that girls were forbidden from going to school. Jackson: Just straight up banned from education, simply for being girls. Olivia: Yes. And Malala, just a young girl at the time, started blogging for the BBC about her life under their rule and her deep desire to learn. She became a public voice for girls' education, which, in that context, was an incredible act of defiance. She was literally risking her life to challenge a rule that was entirely about her gender. Jackson: And she paid a heavy price for it. I remember the news. It was horrifying. Olivia: It was. On October 9, 2012, a Taliban gunman boarded her school bus, asked for her by name, and shot her in the head. It’s a miracle she survived. She was airlifted to the UK, recovered, and went on to become the youngest-ever Nobel Peace Prize laureate. Her story is the ultimate example of gender mattering more than ever. For her, her gender was the sole reason she was denied a right, and the reason she was targeted for assassination. Jackson: That's such a stark, sobering reminder of the stakes. It puts debates about pronouns in email signatures into a much broader perspective. So that's the 'mattering more' part in its most extreme form. Okay, but how do you square that with the other side of the coin? How can gender possibly matter less? Olivia: This is the other side of the paradox. While those high-stakes battles are raging, in many other parts of the world, the old, rigid rules of gender are quietly loosening, or even dissolving. The traditional expectations for what men and women should do, or who they should be, are becoming less strict. Jackson: You mean like it’s less of a big deal now for a man to be a stay-at-home dad, or for a woman to be a CEO? Olivia: Precisely. The lines are blurring. Ryle shares a much quieter, more personal story from her own life as a professor that shows this. She had a student, a cisgender, heterosexual guy, who admitted he’d never really thought much about gender at all. To him, it was just a background fact, like having brown hair. Jackson: Right, for a lot of people who fit neatly into the default settings of society, it’s invisible. It's like water to a fish, as the saying goes. Olivia: Exactly. But then his cousin came out as gay. And that one event suddenly made him question everything he took for granted about gender and sexuality. He realized his assumptions were just that—assumptions, not facts. So he enrolled in Ryle's gender studies class to understand it better. His world was quietly expanding. He wasn't fighting a war like Malala; his personal world was just becoming more flexible and less defined by old rules. Jackson: Ah, I see. So the paradox is that the system is being challenged from two directions at once. The most oppressive, rigid parts of the gender system are being fought against with incredible force, which makes gender hyper-important. But at the same time, the less oppressive, everyday parts of the system are just kind of... eroding. They're losing their power and mattering less. Olivia: You've got it. The system is under pressure from the outside and crumbling from the inside. And this leads to the book's next big question. Once you realize the rules are not as solid as you thought, you start to wonder... Jackson: What even are the rules? And who made them up? Olivia: Exactly. As Ryle puts it, "If the gender you’re assigned at birth isn’t the gender you end up living, then what exactly is gender, anyway?" This is where she takes us on a journey to show that our cultural map of gender is just one of many, many possibilities.

Jackson: Okay, I'm ready for the world tour. Where are we going first? Olivia: We're going to India, to learn about a group of people known as Hijras. This is a fascinating example because it's not just about individuals who don't fit the mold; it's a deeply rooted, institutionalized third gender category that has existed for centuries within Hindu culture. Jackson: A third gender? So, not male or female, but something else entirely, recognized by the whole society? Olivia: Yes. The path to becoming a Hijra is often described as a spiritual calling. A person, typically someone assigned male at birth, feels a call from the Hindu Mother Goddess, Bahuchara Mata. To answer this call, they join a Hijra "house" or clan, where they become a disciple, or chela, to a guru. They leave their old life behind, take on a feminine name, wear women's clothing, and live as part of this new community. Jackson: Wow. So it's a complete social and spiritual transformation. It's not just about how you dress; it's a whole new identity. What role do they play in the culture? Olivia: They have very specific and important ritual roles. Hijras are often invited to perform dances and give blessings at weddings and at the birth of a child, especially a son. Their presence is considered auspicious. They are seen as ascetics who have renounced sexual desire and family ties, which gives them a certain spiritual power. Jackson: That's incredible. It's a gender identity that comes with a social function. But the book's analysis mentions a contradiction, right? That they can be both revered and looked down upon. Olivia: That's the complexity. While they hold this spiritual power, in everyday life, many Hijras face significant discrimination and poverty, often surviving through begging or sex work. They exist in this strange space of being both sacred and marginalized. But their existence completely dismantles the idea that a two-gender system is the only "natural" way. Jackson: It really does. It shows that a culture can create a new gender category to fill a specific spiritual and social need. It’s built, not just discovered. So, what's another stop on this tour? Give me another example that breaks the binary. Olivia: Let's go to the Balkans, in Eastern Europe, for a completely different kind of gender variance: the Sworn Virgins of Albania. This tradition arose in a severely patriarchal, warrior culture. Jackson: Sworn Virgins. The name alone is compelling. What's their story? Olivia: In this society, women had very few rights. They couldn't own property, inherit land, or hold certain jobs. Everything was passed down through the male line. So, if a family had no sons, they faced social and economic ruin. Or, a young woman might be trapped in an arranged marriage she desperately wanted to escape. Jackson: So there was immense pressure. What was the solution? Olivia: A girl could choose to become a "sworn virgin." She would take a public vow of celibacy, promising to never marry or have children. After that, she would cut her hair, wear men's clothes, and take on a man's social role. She could carry a gun, own property, and become the head of her household. She was treated by the community with the respect accorded to a man. Jackson: Whoa. So this was a way to gain male privilege by renouncing female social roles, specifically marriage and motherhood. Olivia: Exactly. It was a pragmatic solution to a social problem. But what's fascinating is that they weren't considered men. They weren't quite women anymore, either. They occupied a space in between, a third path created out of social and economic necessity. If someone attacked her, the punishment would be as severe as if they'd attacked a man, but when she died, she wouldn't receive the funeral rites of a man. Jackson: That's so interesting. So in both examples, the Hijras and the Sworn Virgins, the culture essentially engineered a new gender category to solve a problem. For the Hijras, it was a spiritual niche. For the Sworn Virgins, it was a practical, economic one. It really drives home the point that gender is a tool that a society can shape and use. It's not some fixed, biological blueprint. Olivia: That is the core insight. It’s a cultural map, and every culture draws its own. Our map, with its two neat boxes, is not universal. It’s just... ours. And Ryle argues that knowing other maps exist is the key to freedom.

Jackson: Which brings us back to the 'choose-your-own-adventure' format of the book. It's starting to make so much more sense now. The format isn't a gimmick; it's a metaphor for the book's entire philosophy. Olivia: It is. The structure is the argument. Ryle wants us to understand that gender isn't a destination you arrive at, or a box you're put in at birth. It's a path you walk, a series of choices you make within the landscape of the culture you live in. The stories of the Hijras and Sworn Virgins show us that some cultures have more paths drawn on their maps than we do. Jackson: So what's the big takeaway for someone listening right now who might feel a bit trapped in their own gender box, or just confused by the whole conversation? Olivia: The takeaway is empowerment through knowledge. It’s about realizing the walls of the box are not as solid as they seem. Ryle has this fantastic quote in the book that sums it all up. She says, "Once you know what’s outside the boxes, though, you might begin to plan an escape. Or maybe you’ll decide you want to make a new box for yourself." Jackson: I love that. "Plan an escape or build a new box." It gives you a sense of agency. It’s not about telling everyone they have to reject their gender, but about giving them the conscious choice to accept it, redefine it, or build something new entirely. Olivia: Exactly. The first step is just knowing that other paths exist, that other boxes can be built. The book is an invitation to become the author of your own gender adventure. It doesn't give you the answers, but it gives you a map with a thousand possible routes. Jackson: That’s a really hopeful way to look at it. It reframes a topic that can feel so fraught with conflict into one of exploration and creation. Olivia: It does. And it leaves you with a really powerful question to ponder. It makes you wonder, if you could design your own gender path, free from all the old expectations, what would it actually look like? Jackson: A question worth thinking about. Olivia: This is Aibrary, signing off.