Olivia: Alright Jackson, I’m putting you on the spot. What do you think a book called "See You on the Internet" is about? Jackson: Oh, easy. It's a collection of the most passive-aggressive email sign-offs. "As per my last email..." "Just circling back..." "See you on the internet," as in, "I'm done with this conversation and I'm blocking you now." Olivia: That is a book I would absolutely read. But no, this one is actually the opposite. It’s designed to make you want to be on the internet. Today we’re diving into See You on the Internet: Building Your Small Business with Digital Marketing by Avery Swartz. Jackson: A book that makes you want to deal with digital marketing? That sounds like a fantasy novel. Is the author a wizard? Olivia: Close. She's a leading tech educator in Canada and the founder of Camp Tech, a company that has trained over 50,000 entrepreneurs on how to use technology. This book basically grew out of her seeing thousands of smart, capable business owners on the verge of tears because they couldn't figure out their website or what to post on Instagram. Jackson: Okay, I know that feeling. The "on the verge of tears" part, specifically. It’s the modern condition for anyone trying to run a small business. You're supposed to be an expert in your craft, but also a filmmaker, a graphic designer, a data scientist, and a legal expert on privacy laws. It's impossible. Olivia: Exactly. And that’s the core premise we're exploring today. The book argues that you can escape that digital chaos. And the way out isn't by becoming a tech genius. It’s by changing your entire approach.

Jackson: I’m skeptical but intrigued. A frustration-free guide to tech sounds like a unicorn. Where do we even start to untangle that mess? Olivia: We start with a story that has nothing to do with marketing and everything to do with that feeling of being completely overwhelmed. The author, Avery, tells this incredibly relatable story about her own business. A few years ago, her company’s bookkeeping software was just completely inadequate. It was a mess. Jackson: Oh, I’ve been there. The software that’s supposed to make life easier but instead makes you want to throw your computer out the window. Olivia: Precisely. So she tried to find workarounds. She asked her administrative assistant for help. Nothing worked. The task was just too big and too complex. Finally, she realized she had to do it herself. She spent hours with her bookkeeper, learning the fundamentals of double-entry accounting. She was sending emails back and forth, feeling completely lost. Jackson: This is giving me anxiety just listening to it. She’s a tech educator, and even she was struggling. Olivia: That’s the whole point! She uses this quote that I think everyone has felt: "Tech is supposed to make things easier, right?" But after weeks of struggle, she finally had an 'aha' moment. She understood the core concepts behind the numbers. And once she understood the 'why,' the 'how' of the software became easy. She even started to appreciate bookkeeping. Jackson: Wow. Okay, so the lesson isn't 'learn the software.' It's 'learn the principles behind the software.' Olivia: Exactly. And that’s the foundation of the entire book. Digital marketing feels chaotic because we're all just chasing the software—the new app, the new platform, the algorithm change. Swartz says to ignore all that, at first. Instead, you need a simple, repeatable framework. Jackson: Alright, lay it on me. What’s this magic framework? Olivia: It’s six simple steps. One: Set your goal. Not a vague goal, a real business goal, like "increase in-store sales." Two: Choose your Key Performance Indicator, or KPI. That’s the number you’ll track. So, for increasing sales, the KPI could be "number of daily customers." Jackson: Okay, goal and a number. I'm with you so far. Olivia: Three: Measure before you do anything. You have to know your starting point. If you average 50 customers a day, that’s your baseline. Four: Leap. This is where you actually do the thing—run the ad, post the content, send the email. Five: Measure again, after. Did your daily customers go up from 50? And finally, step six: Learn. What worked? What didn't? What will you do differently next time? Jackson: Goal, KPI, Measure, Leap, Measure, Learn. It’s so simple it almost feels… wrong. Like, where’s the part about A/B testing multivariate ad campaigns with AI-driven lookalike audiences? Olivia: That's the noise! This framework is the signal. It protects you from what the book calls the "shiny object syndrome." And there’s a perfect cautionary tale for this. It’s about a real estate broker named Leena. Jackson: I feel like I know Leena already. Olivia: You do. Leena was an early adopter, always on the newest platforms. She went to a networking event and heard everyone buzzing about a new, ad-free social network called Ello. She got a major case of FOMO—Fear Of Missing Out. Jackson: Oh, the siren song of the 'next big thing.' Olivia: She jumped right in. Signed up, started posting daily about a new loft property. But she had no goal. No KPI. She was just… posting. After a few weeks, she noticed she wasn't getting any real engagement. No one local was connecting. After two months, she just gave up. She'd wasted dozens of hours with nothing to show for it. Jackson: Because she skipped the first three steps. She didn't have a goal, she didn't know what number she was trying to move, and she didn't have a baseline. She just leaped. Oh, I know a Leena. We all know a Leena. Or... we are Leena. Olivia: We are all Leena sometimes. That’s why the framework is so powerful. It’s not about mastering Ello or TikTok or whatever comes next. It’s a mental model that forces you to ask, "Why am I even doing this?" before you waste a single minute.

Jackson: Okay, so the framework stops us from chasing shiny objects and wasting time on digital dead-ends like Ello. But where do we actually do the work? Where's our home base in this chaotic digital world? Olivia: That is the perfect question, and it leads right to the next core idea. The book has this fantastic, powerful question: "Why build your castle on someone else’s land?" Jackson: I love that. Let me guess, social media is the 'someone else's land.' Olivia: You got it. Think about it. Businesses built their entire presence on Myspace. Where are they now? When you build your brand on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok, you're essentially a tenant. The landlord—Mark Zuckerberg or whoever—can change the rules, raise the rent by charging you to reach your own followers, or even tear the whole building down. Jackson: Right, so a website is like owning the house, and social media is like renting a flashy apartment. The apartment might get more foot traffic, but you don't own the asset. Olivia: Exactly. Your website is your digital home. It's the one piece of the internet you truly own and control. And the book argues that even if your business is thriving without one, you still need it. There's a great story about an insurance broker named Christian. Jackson: Let me guess, he's old-school, does everything on a handshake. Olivia: For 25 years! He built a hugely successful business purely on word-of-mouth referrals. He thought a website was a waste of time. But then his clients started saying, "Christian, I want to refer you to my friend, but it feels weird that I can't send them a link. It makes you seem less credible." Jackson: Wow. So even his loyal customers felt the absence of a digital home base. It’s a signal of legitimacy now. Olivia: It’s the new storefront. And that storefront has to meet three non-negotiable conditions to be effective in the modern world. It has to be: Mobile, Fast, and Accessible. Jackson: Okay, break those down. Mobile seems obvious. Everyone's on their phone. Olivia: It’s more than obvious; it's critical. Google now uses "mobile-first indexing," which means it ranks your site based on how well your mobile version works. If your mobile site is bad, your search ranking plummets, even for people searching on a desktop. The book has this great line about responsive design—the code that makes a site magically adapt to any screen size. It says, "it’s not magic—responsive design is code. But it feels like magic." Jackson: And fast? I get that. If a page takes more than three seconds to load, I'm gone. Olivia: You and everyone else. And Google knows it. In 2018, they officially made page speed a major ranking factor. A slow website is like having a shop with a permanently sticky door. People will just give up and go next door. Jackson: Okay, mobile and fast make sense. What about accessible? What does that mean in this context? Olivia: It means making your website usable for people with disabilities. This is a huge and often overlooked part of digital marketing. For example, the book points out that up to 8 percent of men are colorblind. So if you use red and green to show "stop" and "go" or "error" and "success," a huge chunk of your audience can't tell the difference. Jackson: Huh. I never would have thought of that. Olivia: Or think about people who use screen readers. Every image on your site needs "alt text"—a simple description of what the image is—so the software can describe it. It's about basic empathy and inclusivity. And increasingly, it's a legal requirement. The book’s advice here is simple and brilliant: "What do you like on other people’s websites? Do that. What annoys you on other people’s websites? Don’t do that." It’s a user-centric approach. Jackson: That’s a great filter. So you have your framework, and you have your digital house that's mobile, fast, and accessible. Now you have to furnish it, right? You need stuff inside. Olivia: Exactly. A house isn't a home until you fill it with life. And in the digital world, that life is your content, your connections, and your sense of responsibility.

Jackson: I feel like 'content' is one of those words that has lost all meaning. It's just... stuff. Videos, blogs, posts. How do you create content that isn't just more noise? Olivia: The book reframes it. It says, "Content is King," but the real power behind that is authenticity. It’s not about creating "content"; it's about telling your story. There's a fantastic example of a lawyer named Debra. Jackson: A lawyer's website. I'm picturing stock photos of gavels and scales of justice, and text full of "heretofore" and "whereas." Olivia: That's exactly what it was! Debra left a big city firm to start her own boutique practice in her community. She built a website, and it was dry, full of legal jargon, and totally impersonal. It wasn't attracting any clients. Her office assistant, who had a marketing background, finally told her, "Debra, nobody cares about the legal precedents. They care about you. Tell them your story. Why did you leave the rat race to help people in this town?" Jackson: That’s a brave assistant. What did Debra do? Olivia: She listened. She rewrote the entire website. She told her story, her 'why.' And suddenly, the right kind of clients started calling. People who connected with her story and her values. She didn't change her services; she changed her story. The book says your content isn't about you; it's about how people see themselves reflected in your brand. Jackson: I love that. But my story isn't enough if Google can't find me, right? What about the dreaded SEO—Search Engine Optimization? Olivia: Right. SEO isn't a dark art of tricking Google. The book defines it simply as building digital bridges so the right people can find your story. It’s about using the words your ideal customer would use. There's a story about a woman named Diana who sold luxury Scandinavian furniture. Her website was beautiful, but she never once used the words "luxury Scandinavian furniture" in her text. Jackson: You're kidding. So Google had no idea what she was selling? Olivia: None. She was invisible. SEO is just making sure your digital home has a clear address and a sign out front that says what you do in plain language. But all of this—the story, the connections, the SEO—it all rests on a foundation of trust. And that trust can be shattered in an instant. Jackson: This sounds ominous. Olivia: It is. This brings us to the responsibility part. The book tells the story of a photographer named Lauren. The author had built her a WordPress website years earlier and taught her how to keep it updated. But Lauren got busy and neglected it. Jackson: I see where this is going. Olivia: Years later, Lauren called the author in a panic. Her website had been hacked. It was filled with spam. When you Googled her name, the search result had a big, scary warning: "This site may be infected with malware." Her professional reputation was being destroyed. Jackson: Wow. So all that work building a brand, telling her story... gone in 24 hours because she didn't click 'update.' That's terrifying. Olivia: It’s the digital equivalent of leaving the front door of your shop wide open overnight. The book makes it clear that digital security isn't just an IT problem; it's a brand problem. Protecting your customers' data and your own digital space is a fundamental responsibility. It’s the ultimate expression of the human element. You're building relationships, and that requires trust and safety.

Olivia: When you pull it all together, you see this beautiful, logical progression. It all comes back to that simple framework. You start with a clear, human goal. You build a solid, trustworthy home base that you actually own. Then you fill that home with your authentic voice and make genuine connections, all while taking on the responsibility of protecting the people who visit. Jackson: It’s a journey from chaos to clarity. From being a frantic tenant in someone else's digital world to becoming a thoughtful homeowner of your own. The focus shifts from technology to humanity. Olivia: Exactly. It’s not about being a tech wizard; it’s about being a thoughtful business owner. The technology is just the tool. The framework, the website, the content—they are all in service of a human goal. Jackson: So for someone listening right now who feels totally overwhelmed by all this, who is living that "on the verge of tears" reality, what's the one thing they should do today after hearing this? Olivia: I think Avery Swartz would say this: Don't try to do everything. Don't try to build the perfect website and launch on five social media platforms tomorrow. Just go back to step one of the framework. Ask yourself: What is my single most important business goal right now? Not a digital goal, a business goal. Jackson: Like "get five new clients this month" or "sell 20% more of this specific product." Olivia: Precisely. And once you have that goal, ask: What is one small, manageable digital step I can take towards it? Maybe it's not building a whole website. Maybe it's just registering your domain name so no one else takes it. Maybe it's rewriting the 'About Us' page on your existing site to tell your real story. Start there. One small, intentional step. Jackson: That feels achievable. It’s not "conquer the internet." It's "take one step." Olivia: And know that you're not alone in feeling frustrated. I think it would be great if our listeners shared the one digital marketing task that always drives them crazy. Let's create a little support group moment, just like the one the author describes happening in her Camp Tech workshops. Let us know, and we can all see we're in it together. Jackson: I love that. My answer is definitely trying to design anything that looks remotely professional on Canva. It’s a personal battle. Olivia: Mine is untangling Google Analytics. But we get through it.