Michelle: Here’s a wild thought: What if the secret to earning a six-figure salary isn't working harder, but working less? Mark: Okay, my ears are open. Go on. Michelle: And what if the biggest thing holding you back isn't your boss, or the economy, but a hidden belief that money is... well, a little bit evil? Mark: That feels uncomfortably specific. You’ve been reading my diary again, haven’t you? Michelle: (Laughs) Close. That's the provocative territory we're exploring today, through Barbara Stanny's highly-rated book, Secrets of Six-Figure Women: Up Your Earnings and Change Your Life. Mark: And Stanny is fascinating. She's not just a finance guru; she has a Master’s in Counseling Psychology. She interviewed over 150 high-earning women, not to rehash the wage gap, but to decode their psychology of success. Michelle: Exactly. And what she found was less about spreadsheets and more about mindset. Let's start with who these women actually are, because the reality shatters every stereotype we have about a "six-figure woman."

Mark: Right, because when I hear that phrase, I immediately picture a woman in a power suit, probably a lawyer or a Wall Street executive, working 80-hour weeks and surviving on coffee and ambition. Michelle: That’s the exact stereotype Stanny dismantles. She found six-figure women in every field imaginable. Artists, corporate trainers, public relations consultants, even a psychic. And their backgrounds were just as varied. She tells this incredible story about a woman named Kitty Stuart. Mark: Let me guess, Harvard MBA, straight-A student? Michelle: Seventh-grade dropout. Mark: Come on. Really? Michelle: Really. Kitty Stuart became a wildly successful entrepreneur. And she had this amazing quote about her lack of formal education. She said, "Because I didn’t know any better, I went out and tried things people said I could never do." Her lack of credentials meant she wasn't trapped by conventional thinking. She didn't have a voice in her head telling her what was and wasn't possible. Mark: Wow. So her perceived disadvantage was actually her superpower. She didn't have the "rules" to break. That completely upends the 'you need an MBA' narrative. But what about the work ethic? Are these women, like Kitty, just grinding 24/7? Michelle: That's the next myth to fall. Yes, they work hard, but Stanny found that the intensity of their focus was far more critical than the sheer number of hours worked. Many of them shared a similar sentiment, which one woman, Nicole Young, put perfectly: "I work passionately, not hard." Mark: I love the sound of that, but it also sounds a bit like a motivational poster. How does "working passionately" translate into real dollars if your passion is, I don't know, collecting antique teacups? Michelle: It's about channeling that passion into focused, high-value activity. The most powerful example of this is the story of Beth Wiley Chapman. She was a public relations consultant in Boston, a classic workaholic, pulling 70-hour weeks. She was successful, but she was burning out. Mark: I know that story. It never ends well. Michelle: It almost didn't. She was diagnosed with breast cancer. And in one of the book's most poignant quotes, she said, "Breast cancer was the excuse I needed to say no." It was a brutal wake-up call. Mark: That's heartbreaking. So she quit? Michelle: She made a radical change. She moved to Cape Cod, slashed her workweek from seventy hours down to thirty, and focused on her health and well-being. And here is the absolute kicker. Mark: Her income dropped, but she was happier. Michelle: Her income soared. Mark: Wait, what? How? She cut her hours by more than half. Michelle: Because for the first time, she was forced to be ruthless with her time. She only took on ideal clients. She focused only on the most impactful work. Her energy was no longer scattered across 70 hours of frantic activity; it was a laser beam for 30. She was more effective, more valuable, and her clients paid for that value, not for the hours she was in a chair. Mark: Okay, so it's not about the hours you clock, but the value and focus you bring to those hours. Passion isn't just a fluffy word; it's an economic engine. It's what allows you to create that intense focus that Beth discovered. That is a powerful, and frankly, very hopeful idea. Michelle: It is. It suggests the path to high earnings is more accessible and diverse than we think. It’s not one-size-fits-all. But, as Stanny points out, while the path is open, there are some very real, very subtle psychological roadblocks that keep people from ever setting foot on it.

Mark: And that brings us to the flip side. If passion and focus are the engine, what are the brakes? This sounds like it's going to hit close to home for a lot of people. Michelle: It really does. Stanny argues there are hidden psychological brakes that many women don't even know they're pressing. She dedicates a whole section to what she calls the "underearner"—someone who, for a variety of deep-seated reasons, consistently earns less than their potential. Mark: I think we all know someone like that. Or maybe we are someone like that. What are these hidden traits? Michelle: There are nine of them, but two in particular are just devastatingly common. The first is a willingness to work for free. Mark: Oh, I know this one. The "can I just pick your brain for a minute?" request that turns into a two-hour consulting session. Michelle: Exactly. Stanny tells the story of a screenwriter friend who constantly gave away her expertise. The friend confessed, "I guess I don’t have the confidence to charge, but I feel lousy about myself always doing things for free." It's a vicious cycle. You devalue your work by giving it away, which then reinforces your belief that it isn't worth much, which makes it even harder to ask for money next time. Mark: It's a confidence death spiral. And it’s especially prevalent in creative or "caring" professions, where there's this unspoken idea that asking for money somehow taints the purity of the work. Michelle: Precisely. And that connects directly to the second major trait of an underearner: what Stanny calls reverse snobbery. Mark: Reverse snobbery? What's that? Michelle: It’s holding negative, often unconscious, attitudes toward wealthy people. It's the subtle belief that money is the root of all evil, that wealthy people are greedy, unhappy, or morally compromised. Mark: Right, like the villain in every 80s movie was a rich guy in a suit. So you subconsciously sabotage your own financial success because you're afraid of becoming "one of them." You don't want to be the bad guy. Michelle: You've nailed it. You can't become what you hold in contempt. Stanny shares a powerful story about Lois Carrier, who eventually became a successful financial advisor. But growing up, she had painful money memories and believed that "people with money are unhappy." When she first started making real money herself, she was overwhelmed with guilt. Mark: Guilt for succeeding? Michelle: Yes. She had to do serious inner work to dismantle that belief, to separate the idea of wealth from the idea of being a bad person. She had to give herself permission to be prosperous. And that's a battle so many people fight without even realizing it. Mark: It’s like you’re driving with one foot on the gas—your ambition—and one foot on the brake—your guilt. And you wonder why you're not getting anywhere. These two traits alone—working for free and secretly disdaining wealth—feel like they could explain so much of the frustration people feel about their income. Michelle: They're incredibly powerful because they operate below the surface. You can have all the right strategies, but if your underlying beliefs are working against you, you'll find a way to fail.

Mark: So on one hand, we have this incredibly liberating, diverse picture of what a high-earning woman can be—passionate, focused, not defined by a degree or a specific industry. She can be a seventh-grade dropout or a PR consultant working from the beach. Michelle: A path defined by audacity and resilience. Mark: But on the other hand, we have these deep-seated, almost invisible psychological traps—like feeling guilty for wanting to be wealthy or not having the confidence to charge for your time—that can keep you stuck in a cycle of underearning forever. Michelle: Exactly. And Stanny's ultimate point, which is so powerful, is that earning more isn't just about the money. It's an act of claiming your power. It’s about personal growth. One woman she interviewed said something that has stuck with me since I first read it. She said, "When I made money it changed the way I thought about myself. I’m worth more. I had money to prove it. Success is a wonderful feeling." Mark: Wow. The money wasn't the goal; it was the evidence. The proof of a change that had already happened internally. Michelle: It's about aligning your financial reality with your intrinsic self-worth. And Stanny’s work, which was so influential when it came out in the early 2000s, is still so relevant because it reframes the conversation. It moves from "Why aren't they paying me more?" to "What beliefs are stopping me from demanding more?" Mark: It makes you wonder, what's the one story we tell ourselves about money that needs to be rewritten? A great question for our listeners to ponder. Michelle: We'd love to hear your thoughts. Join the conversation on our social channels. What's a money belief you've had to unlearn, or are still working on? Mark: This is Aibrary, signing off.