Michelle: In the United States, student loan debt has surpassed a staggering one trillion dollars, second only to property mortgages. Yet, at the very same time, more than three million jobs are sitting empty, waiting to be filled. Mark: Whoa, hold on. That doesn't make any sense. It’s a complete contradiction. We have people drowning in debt for an education that apparently isn't qualifying them for the jobs that are actually available. Michelle: Exactly. It's a paradox that points to a huge, hidden crack in our economic foundation. And that is the central puzzle explored in the book People Without Jobs and Jobs Without People by Nicholas Wyman. Mark: Nicholas Wyman. I’m guessing he’s some Ivy League economist who crunched the numbers on this? Michelle: That’s what makes this so interesting. He’s not. Wyman started his career as an award-winning apprentice chef in Australia. He won their Apprentice of the Year award and led their youth culinary team to a gold medal at the Culinary Olympics. Mark: A chef? So he went from the kitchen to writing about economic policy? That’s a career pivot. Michelle: It is. He eventually became a global workforce development expert and CEO of an innovation institute. He’s lived the alternative path he writes about, which gives his argument a powerful, real-world authority. He’s not just theorizing; he’s seen the system from a completely different angle. Mark: I love that. It’s not an academic in an ivory tower; it’s someone who got their hands dirty and succeeded. Okay, so where does he begin to unravel this giant paradox of empty jobs and unemployed people?

Michelle: He starts by challenging a piece of conventional wisdom that’s become almost sacred in our culture: the idea that a four-year college degree is the only path to a successful, middle-class life. Mark: Okay, but let’s be real, isn't that what we tell every kid? Go to college, get a good job. Are we really saying that’s bad advice now? Michelle: The book argues it's not that college is inherently bad, but that the "college-for-all" mindset has become a dangerously blunt instrument. The data is pretty sobering. The Federal Reserve Bank of New York found that 44 percent of recent college graduates are underemployed. Mark: Forty-four percent? So nearly half of them are working jobs that don't even require the degree they just went into massive debt for? Like a barista with a philosophy degree? Michelle: Precisely. They have the debt, but not the career. Wyman shares the story of a 19-year-old named Christopher, who is the perfect embodiment of this problem. He graduated high school without any specific skills, just the vague idea that he should probably go to college someday. Mark: I know that feeling. I think most of us have been there. Michelle: So Christopher just drifts. He gets a job for a month, then he's unemployed for a month. He feels completely lost, and he says, "I was doing one thing for one month and nothing for the next. I felt lost, unsure of where to go next." He’s a person without a job, in a world full of jobs without people. Mark: That’s heartbreaking because it’s so common. You feel like you’re failing, but maybe the system is failing you by not giving you a clear path. Michelle: And on the flip side of that, Wyman talks to frustrated executives, like one in Texas who told him, "Nick, we just can’t find enough people with the skills we need." A report from Deloitte and the Manufacturing Institute found that over 80 percent of manufacturers can't find enough skilled talent. They have over 600,000 jobs just sitting open. Mark: That’s the mismatch right there. Christopher is looking for work, and this factory is looking for workers, but they can't connect. What are these skills they’re missing? Michelle: They’re what the book calls "middle-skills." These aren't jobs that require a Ph.D., but they need more than a high school diploma. Think of skilled machinists, welders, industrial engineers, diagnostic imaging technicians, paralegals. They require technical training, often through a certification or an associate's degree. Mark: But wait, the classic argument is that a bachelor's degree still leads to higher lifetime earnings. Is that no longer true? Michelle: It can be, but the book forces a more nuanced look. The return on investment for an engineering degree from a top school is fantastic. The return on an arts degree from a less-prestigious school, after you factor in four years of lost wages and $100,000 in debt, can be negative. The book argues we've stopped asking what the purpose of the education is. We’ve just made the credential the goal, regardless of the outcome. Mark: It’s like we’re all buying a lottery ticket, but we’re not checking the odds for the specific game we’re playing. Michelle: That’s a perfect analogy. And Wyman’s solution isn't to get rid of college, but to legitimize and elevate the other paths. And his favorite path, the one he’s most passionate about, is the apprenticeship.

Mark: When I hear "apprenticeship," I immediately think of someone in the Middle Ages, like a blacksmith or a cooper making barrels. It feels a bit outdated. Michelle: And that’s the exact perception the book wants to shatter. To show how powerful and modern this idea can be, Wyman tells this absolutely incredible story about the Aircraft Restoration Company, or ARC, in England. Mark: Aircraft restoration? Okay, you have my attention. Michelle: ARC is located at Duxford Aerodrome, a critical airbase during the Battle of Britain in World War II. Their specialty? They restore vintage warbirds, especially the legendary Spitfire fighter plane. These are multi-million dollar projects for collectors. Mark: Wow. So this is high-stakes, precision work. You can't just look up how to fix a Spitfire on YouTube. Michelle: Not at all. The founder, John Romain, realized that the generation of craftsmen who knew how to work with these planes—the ones who built them in the 40s—were retiring and dying. The skills were literally disappearing. So he said, "The old skills have begun to die off, so we started training mechanical and trades engineers ourselves. It is critical to our business." Mark: He had to create his own pipeline of talent. Michelle: Exactly. He started an apprenticeship program. The book introduces us to a young apprentice named Steve, or 'Woody,' who started at 16. He’s paired with mentors like 'Smudge,' a 75-year-old ex-Royal Air Force engineer. Woody isn't sitting in a classroom learning abstract theories. He's in the hangar, with his hands on the metal, learning to fabricate a new wing part from scratch while Smudge looks over his shoulder. Mark: That’s like something out of a movie. It’s a direct transfer of knowledge, from one generation to the next. It’s not just a job; it’s preserving a legacy. Michelle: It’s a total immersion. The apprentices learn sheet metal work, engine mechanics, airframe fitting. They’re earning a wage while they learn, so they have no debt. And they’re surrounded by people who are deeply passionate about the work. The key quality they look for in an apprentice isn't existing skill, but as one supervisor says, "We can teach them the technical skills they need." What they can't teach is passion and a good attitude. Mark: That’s so different from the college model, which is all about pre-existing scores and grades. So this isn't just for historical crafts, right? How does this apply to, say, a modern factory? Michelle: That’s the brilliant connection the book makes. It takes this romantic, inspiring story from ARC and shows the exact same principles at work in a state-of-the-art, billion-dollar Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Mark: From Spitfires to Passats. Michelle: Right. VW partnered with the local community college to create a three-year mechatronics apprenticeship. Students split their time between classes at the college and paid, on-the-job training at the VW Academy inside the plant. They’re learning to operate and maintain the complex robotic systems on the assembly line. Mark: So it’s the same model: earn while you learn, get direct mentorship, and acquire skills the employer has explicitly said they need. It’s like a medical residency, but for a technician. Michelle: It is. And when they graduate, they have an associate's degree, a professional certification, zero student debt, and a guaranteed job offer from Volkswagen starting at a very competitive salary. They’ve punched their ticket to the middle class. Mark: That sounds incredible. But the ARC story feels like a passion project, and the VW one feels like a massive corporate initiative. These feel like special cases. How do you build a whole system around this idea so that it’s available to everyone, not just a lucky few?

Michelle: That’s the final, crucial piece of the puzzle. Wyman argues that this requires a whole new ecosystem of collaboration. It’s not just on companies or on schools; it’s about them working together in innovative ways. And he gives a stunning example of this in action: a school in Brooklyn called P-TECH. Mark: P-TECH. What’s the story there? Michelle: P-TECH stands for Pathways in Technology Early College High School. It was a radical experiment started in 2011 as a partnership between the New York City school system, the City University of New York, and a major corporate partner: IBM. Mark: IBM is involved in a public high school? That’s unusual. Michelle: It’s a complete redesign of high school. It’s a six-year program, from grades 9 to 14. Students graduate not just with a high school diploma, but also with a two-year associate's degree in a high-tech field like computer science or engineering, completely free of charge. Mark: Wait, so a kid graduates at 20 with an associate's degree, no debt, and a connection to IBM? That sounds almost too good to be true. Why isn't every city doing this? Michelle: That’s the question, isn't it? The model is spreading, but it requires a huge shift in thinking. At P-TECH, every student is paired with a mentor from IBM. They do paid internships at the company during the summer. The curriculum is co-designed by the teachers and IBM engineers to ensure that what the students are learning is directly relevant to the jobs that are actually available. Mark: They’re building the bridge as the students walk across it. It completely eliminates the skills gap for those kids. Michelle: It does. And the results are phenomenal. The first graduating class saw many students finishing the six-year program in just four years. And IBM guarantees that graduates are first in line for job interviews. President Obama visited a P-TECH school and praised it as a model for the country. Mark: It’s a powerful vision. It feels like this is one of the core solutions the book offers, alongside apprenticeships. Michelle: It is. The book is full of these "bridge" examples. It talks about the power of occupational associate degrees from community colleges, which have a huge return on investment. It highlights industry-backed certifications, like the ones from the Manufacturing Institute, which act as a trusted signal to employers. The common thread is that they are all more flexible, more affordable, and more directly tied to the needs of the economy than the traditional, isolated four-year path has become. Mark: It’s a whole ladder of skills, not just one single, expensive path. You can get a certification, then get a job, then have your employer help you get an associate's degree, and so on. Michelle: Exactly. You can build your career brick by brick, skill by skill, instead of making one giant, four-year bet at the very beginning.

Mark: You know, as we talk through this, the title of the book, People Without Jobs and Jobs Without People, becomes so much clearer. It’s not about a lack of will or a lack of opportunity. It’s about a broken connection. Michelle: A fundamentally broken connection. And the work of Nicholas Wyman is all about repairing that connection. He’s showing that the problem isn't a mystery. The solutions are right in front of us. We have the people, and we have the jobs. We just need to build the right bridges between them. Mark: It seems like the core message is that we need to stop thinking about education as a single event that ends at age 22. Michelle: That’s the deepest insight. The future of work isn't about a single, four-year finish line. It's about building a 'skills portfolio' throughout your life, with multiple on-ramps and off-ramps. You might start with an apprenticeship, add a certification five years later, and maybe pursue a degree ten years after that when you know exactly why you need it. Mark: It’s a much more dynamic and adaptable way to think about a career. It really makes you question the advice we’ve been giving young people for decades. It's not just 'go to college' anymore. Michelle: It’s not. And maybe the new advice is 'go get a skill.' So, a question for our listeners: What's one skill you wish you could learn through a hands-on apprenticeship, right now? It could be anything—coding, cooking, carpentry, graphic design. Mark: Oh, that's a great question. I'd love to see what people come up with. Let us know your answer on our social media channels. We're genuinely curious to hear what skills people are craving. Michelle: It’s a powerful thought experiment. And a hopeful one. Mark: This is Aibrary, signing off.