Daniel: Hey everyone, welcome back! Today, we're tackling a really powerful concept that's often misunderstood: positioning. Honestly, getting this right can totally make or break your product. Sophia: Break, like my first attempt to launch a consumer social app? I called it “Socially acceptable connection” —the investors ran so fast you would have thought there was a fire alarm. Daniel: exactly the kind of situation we're trying to avoid! We're diving into April Dunford's “Obviously Awesome” today. She really nails the art and science of positioning, especially in the B2B tech world. It's not just about catchy slogans or flashy ads as Dunford argues; it's about creating the right context so that your product feels not just relevant, but essential. Sophia: So, positioning is like... introducing your product and making sure it gives a good first impression? Daniel: Exactly. She's got a 10-step process for really locking down your product's spot in the market, with case studies that prove it actually works. Whether you're launching something new or trying to revive an existing product, mastering positioning is key. Sophia: Okay, so we're breaking this down into three parts, right? First, we are going to be talking about the nuts and bolts of what positioning is and also its importance. Daniel: Absolutely. Then we'll get into the nitty-gritty of Dunford's 10-step roadmap. It's honestly like building a lighthouse, laying a solid base, building it tall so it stands out, and then making sure its shining bright. Sophia: Right, the third thing is, how do you keep your positioning on point as the market changes? I mean, without having to go through a whole brand overhaul every other year? Daniel: Exactly, so stay tuned. This is going to give you a whole new perspective on your product! Sophia: And let's be honest, the market is super crowded. Someone's going to position your product whether you like it or not. You want to be the one in control of that narrative.

Daniel: Exactly, Sophia, that's a perfect way to set the stage. So, let's dive right in, shall we? Let’s break down what positioning “really” means and why it’s so crucial. I think a lot of people hear the word "positioning" and immediately think it's just about branding or some marketing jargon. But as Dunford points out, it's actually much more profound than that. Sophia: Absolutely. She really emphasizes "context setting," instead of just rattling off your product's features. I like to think of it as building a picture frame. If the frame is off, the picture inside just won't look right, will it? So, exactly how does positioning create this frame? Daniel: It's all about defining the role your product plays in your customer's life. Think about the Joshua Bell experiment. I absolutely love this example because it really forces us to confront how much context truly matters. Bell is, arguably, one of the world's most talented violinists. He's playing a priceless instrument. But, when he's in a busy subway station, commuters just see him as another performer on the street. Sophia: Right. He made, like, a few dollars in tips, am I right? Instead of the six-figure paycheck he'd command at a sold-out concert hall? Daniel: Precisely! The product—his music—wasn't different at all. The thing that changed was how people perceived its value. That's what positioning is at its core, you know? It's about establishing the right perception for your product so that its unique strengths truly shine in the context where they're going to resonate with your target audience. When companies get this wrong, they end up like Bell in the subway. They have an amazing product, but it's completely overlooked. Sophia: Okay, so let's talk about why businesses find themselves in these "subway singer" moments. Say my product is, you know, like, genuinely innovative and it solves real problems. What makes it so difficult to attract attention? Daniel: That's a great question! There are two main reasons. First, people are overwhelmed with choices. They don’t have the time or energy to figure out what makes your product so special. And second, if you don’t define your narrative, your audience is going to jump to whatever conclusions, whatever perception they assume you are. That’s why effective positioning is so precise—it just eliminates ambiguity. Sophia: So, ambiguity’s the “real” killer, right? Especially when you have competitors out there shouting things like, "Hey, we're better! We're faster! We're cheaper!" Daniel: Exactly, but here’s the thing: Dunford argues that “better” isn’t enough. Positioning isn’t about being better, it’s about being different. When you position your product in the right context, you’re not even in the same race as the competition at all. You’re now competing on a completely different playing field, ideally one that you've claimed as your own. Sophia: Okay, so that's the "why." Let's talk about the nuts and bolts of effective positioning. What actually makes it work? Daniel: This is really where Dunford’s framework shines. Let's start with the first component, which is competitive alternatives. Before you can define your position, you need to fully understand what customers view as their other options. And it's not just about direct competitors. You need to uncover the indirect ones too. Sophia: Hold on a sec. Indirect competitors? You're talking about things that aren't even in, like, the same category? Daniel: Exactly. For example, let’s say you’re launching a project management tool. Of course, your direct competitors are platforms like Trello and Asana. Got it. But, your indirect competitors could easily include old-school Excel spreadsheets, Post-It notes, or even doing nothing at all, which, for some people, is their default "project management" strategy. Sophia: So, if I think Trello’s my main rival, but I ignore Excel 'cause it's “not in my space,” I actually miss a huge chunk of what my potential customers are considering? Daniel: Totally. And that oversight leaves your messaging floundering. The goal is to position your product in a way that makes all those alternatives, direct and indirect, seem like lesser options. Which leads us to the next key element: unique attributes. Sophia: Ah, the shiny features. Every company loves to trumpet what makes their product cool. But how do you go beyond just listing features and actually stand out? Daniel: You’ve got to tie those features directly to solving customer pain points. Let’s take the example of CRM, customer relationship management system. A feature like seamless QuickBooks integration isn’t just a cool tech perk. It's solving a broader challenge many businesses face in aligning their sales and accounting systems. So, that feature becomes invaluable because of the problem it eliminates. Sophia: Okay, but can't "unique" features backfire if the market doesn't actually care about them? Daniel: That's why context is so incredibly important. Let’s go back to the CRM example. Imagine you’re selling some customizable software. Certain audiences will look at customization as a godsend; others will think it's extra complexity they don’t need. The key is understanding your audience so well that you can frame that feature as a tailored solution to their exact needs, like targeting the legal or healthcare sectors, where customization is absolutely critical. Sophia: I get it. So, it’s less about the features themselves, and more about crafting the right narrative around them. Which kinda brings us to value and proof, doesn't it? Daniel: You're spot on. Unique features make you stand out, and value and proof make you believable. It’s one thing to say your solution saves time or cuts costs, and it’s another thing entirely to show tangible proof that it delivers those results. Take Clearpath Robotics, for example. They positioned themselves as, quote, "autonomous vehicles for industrial use," unquote, and they backed it up with solid case studies and validation from awards like the Edison Award. That proof heightened their credibility and reinforced their position. Sophia: So, having testimonials, data, or industry cred isn’t just nice to have. It’s kinda essential? Daniel: Exactly. Think of it as the glue between your positioning claim and your customer’s trust. Then there’s the final piece: target market characteristics. Here’s where you focus not just on demographics, like who your customers are, but also psychographics, like what they genuinely need, value, and believe. Sophia: Like understanding that your SaaS tool isn't just aimed at small business owners, but that you know which owners desperately need help with something like inventory tracking? Daniel: Bingo! Knowing that level of detail helps you craft messaging that’s laser-focused on their specific pain points. And, when you combine that with larger trends, like the rise of remote work or the demand for sustainable solutions, you suddenly have a positioning strategy that feels timely and extremely relevant. Sophia: So, putting all those things together: you establish the alternatives, define your unique attributes, articulate your value and then provide proof, and understand your audience inside and out. Sounds, uh, fairly simple in theory, but I imagine it’s a lot harder to do in practice. Daniel: It definitely takes work, no doubt. But the payoff is massive. Like Dunford says, positioning really is the foundation for all your sales and marketing efforts. If you nail it, everything else gets so much easier. But, if you get it wrong, even the very best products are going to struggle.

Daniel: Okay, so now that we’ve got a good handle on the fundamentals of positioning, let’s talk about how to actually make it happen. April Dunford’s got this great “10-Step Positioning Process” – it's really a step-by-step guide to help companies figure out their unique spot in the market. Sophia: Alright, so we’re finally moving from theory to practical steps, right? I hope everyone is taking notes, because this is where it gets real. Daniel: Exactly! We’re going from thinking about it to “doing” it. Whether you're just starting out or you've been in the game for a while, these steps will give you a clear path to making your positioning work. So, let’s jump into step one: understanding the customers who absolutely “love” your product. Sophia: Okay, the love story begins. Is step one just diving headfirst into their data or, you know, lurking in customer forums? How do you really get to the heart of your superfans? Daniel: It’s a very focused process actually. It’s not just about who buys your product, but who “loves” it. You know, the people who stick with you through thick and thin and tell everyone else about you. The goal is to really get to know their problems, what they like, and why they picked you over everyone else. Sophia: Okay, sounds simple enough, but aren't customers, you know, a bit biased? Should we really take everything they say as gospel? Daniel: Good point. So, you don’t just look at the data. Of course, you analyze your CRM, surveys, and how people are buying. But the real gold is in talking to these people, interviewing them about how they made their decision. Ask them things like, “What was the problem you were trying to solve?” or “What other options did you look at before choosing us?” Sophia: Alright, I'm in. So I've done these interviews, what am I really listening for? What's the hidden message here? Daniel: Look for the stories that tell you what they really valued in your product and, even more importantly, what they didn't like about the alternatives. For example, a tech company with a project management tool discovered that their happiest customers were small business owners drowning in emails and spreadsheets. What they loved was having everything in one place, it stopped the chaos and saved time. And this helped the company to focus their positioning on streamlining workflows for small businesses. Sophia: So, essentially, the raving fans end up writing the pitch for you. But don't some companies miss that by assuming everyone’s opinion matters equally? Daniel: Exactly. Dunford stresses focusing on the people who “really” get it. Companies mess up when they try to be everything to everyone and focus on the so-so users, instead of the die-hard fans. Which, by the way, is where building a positioning team comes in. Sophia: Wait a minute, a "team" just for positioning? That’s not just an intern grabbing buzzwords for a slide deck, is it? Daniel: Not at all. Good positioning needs input from all over the company. No one team has all the answers. Sales, marketing, product, customer success – they all see the product from different angles, and combining their views can highlight problems or hidden benefits. Sophia: Okay, so suddenly everyone has a voice? Doesn't that just turn into "positioning by committee"? I’ve been in those meetings, and they get messy fast. Daniel: True, but that’s why you need a structure. Dunford suggests workshops where everyone shares their thoughts, guided by someone who can help everyone agree on the priorities. And, of course, you need leadership involved to keep everyone focused and on board. For example, a CRM company brought in sales reps who shared what customers were complaining about, marketers who looked at campaign data, and product managers who explained the tech. Together, they realized that customers loved the customization but thought it was too complicated. So, the solution? Highlight both the flexibility “and” the ease of use in their positioning. Sophia: Interesting, so you're not just talking about strengths; you're admitting weaknesses too. That's… actually kind of refreshing. Daniel: It’s strategically refreshing! And once the team’s together, the next thing is to ensure everyone is on the same page, speaking the same language. Sophia: Oh great, communication—the corporate kryptonite. Let me guess, marketing calls it "X," sales calls it "Y," and the dev team mumbles something about "beta frameworks"? Daniel: Exactly, and that’s precisely what this step is trying to avoid. If you have a misaligned vocabulary, your message gets garbled, and if your own team can’t agree on what the product is, how will customers? So, you create a glossary of common terms for your product’s key features, benefits, and market positioning. Sophia: Okay, let’s say I’m running a small SaaS company, can you give me an example where you’ve seen that misalignment? Daniel: A SaaS accounting tool. Their sales team was selling it as "budget software" while marketing was promoting a "financial management platform." That little difference confused customers who didn’t really understand what the product could do. But once they agreed on "financial software for small businesses," their messaging became clear, and people understood it, so conversions went up. Sophia: Messaging consistency for the win. So, the team speaks the same language, what's next? Daniel: Step four – diving deep into your competitive landscape, understanding both direct competitors but also those indirect alternatives. Sophia: Ah yes, the sneaky competitors, like Excel spreadsheets or just ignoring the problem. Daniel: Exactly. Knowing both types really sharpens your positioning. When you understand how customers see the competition, you can position your product in a way that makes everything else seem like a compromise. That unique identity is vital to stand out. Sophia: Okay, I get it. But, you’re telling me that everything we’ve discussed so far… talking to fans, building a team, glossaries, competitive analysis… that’s just the “foundation”? There's more?! Daniel: Oh yeah, we’re only halfway there! But it’s worth sticking with because each step helps you sharpen your market position and make your product irresistible.

Daniel: Once you've nailed down your positioning, the real challenge begins: turning it into actionable strategies. We're not just talking theories here; this is about getting your hands dirty. It involves crafting a killer sales pitch, making sure your product development aligns perfectly with your message, and regularly checking if your positioning is still on point. April Dunford emphasizes that great positioning only works if it’s woven into the very fabric of your business. Sophia: Okay, so we're moving from the drawing board to reality. Ideas are great, but they have to actually do something. So, where do we start when we're putting this positioning into action? Daniel: First thing is to craft that “sales story”. Think of it as your elevator pitch, but pumped up with steroids. A truly effective sales story clearly articulates why your product's positioning makes it the ideal choice for a specific customer. This isn't just a list of features; it's a compelling narrative that connects with your audience both emotionally and practically. Sophia: Right, because listing features is about as thrilling as reading the back of a cereal box. So how do you create something that actually captures people's attention? Daniel: You ground it in the context you've already established with your positioning. Take Janna Systems, for instance. They struggled initially because they were trying to sell their CRM software to everyone. Their pitch fell flat because potential customers just compared them to the market leader, Siebel Systems. Nobody wanted a "cheaper, crappier Siebel." Their breakthrough came when they focused on investment banks, where their ability to model complex relationships was a game-changer. Sophia: Hold on, so they went from "just another CRM" to "CRM specifically for investment banks"? Was that really the key to their turnaround? Daniel: That shift completely changed how customers perceived their product. Investment bankers suddenly saw that Janna's CRM wasn't just a generic tool; it was specifically designed for their unique, high-stakes needs. Their refined sales story highlighted that specific advantage, and it resonated big time. They closed deals across the U.S., the U.K., and Australia, boosting their revenue from $2 million to $70 million in just 18 months. Sophia: Wow, so a hyper-focused sales story transformed them from an also-ran into a category leader. But it wasn't just talk, was it? They must have made some internal changes to back up that story. Daniel: Exactly! The story was only part of it - they also aligned their “product roadmap” with their new positioning. Once they zeroed in on investment banks, they realized their pricing didn’t fit the narrative of exclusivity and high value that investment banks expected. So, guess what they did? They raised their prices! This signaled premium status and aligned perfectly with their new market's expectations. Sophia: Let me make sure I understand this, the product itself stayed the same, but with a tailored message and higher prices, it suddenly became a hit? Daniel: Precisely. They didn’t overhaul the core functionality of the product overnight; they simply reshaped how it was perceived and positioned every decision—pricing, features, messaging—to reinforce that perception. Positioning isn’t just external; it impacts the very way you operate as a company. Sophia: Okay, but is this roadmap alignment a universal thing? Raising prices might work for high-end markets, but what if your audience doesn't respond well to that strategy? Daniel: That’s a great point. Product alignment has to match your target audience's expectations - remember, authenticity is key here. Look at Clearpath Robotics, for example. They were initially stuck as just another "robotics company" selling to research markets. The problem was that those markets didn’t truly appreciate the value of their autonomous mobile robots. So, they repositioned themselves as offering "self-driving industrial vehicles," which resonated with industries focused on automation and cost-efficiency. Suddenly, their robots weren't just cool innovations; they were practical solutions. Sophia: And I'm assuming that their product roadmap had to adapt as well? Daniel: Exactly! They adapted to show how their technology specifically reduced industrial costs. Clearpath began optimizing for warehouse operations and logistics, where mobility and automation were vital. Their repositioning aligned both their narrative and their product with what mattered most to these customers. As a result? Clearpath became a leader in a whole new submarket and even won awards. Not bad, huh? Sophia: Right, so it's much more than a simple rebrand or new packaging. It's about making internal decisions—features, pricing, everything—that underscore the story you're telling. Daniel: Spot on. Positioning doesn’t exist in isolation. It shapes everything from your sales pitch to your product development. But here’s the thing: you can't just sit back and relax once you think you've nailed it. No matter how perfect your positioning feels, it's never truly permanent. Sophia: Ah, the dreaded reassessment. Let me guess: just when you think you've got it all figured out, some new competitor or technology comes along and spoils everything? Daniel: Precisely! That's why Dunford is a big proponent of regular reassessment. Markets evolve, competitors adapt, and customer preferences change. Companies that don't revisit their positioning can easily fall behind. Think about Janna Systems again. Even after their huge success with investment banking, they had to remain vigilant. Banking technology is highly competitive, and without regular evaluation, rivals could have easily caught up by developing similar features. Sophia: So reevaluation isn't just about avoiding disaster—it's about proactively maintaining your edge. What are some tools we can use to regularly reassess our positioning? Daniel: Three main ones come to mind. First, regular customer feedback surveys provide current insights into how your audience perceives your product and what they need right now. Second, market analyses help you to keep an eye on emerging trends and competitive moves. And finally, you have performance metrics - reviewing whether your current positioning is still translating into sales, customer retention, and growth. Combined, these tools give you a clear picture of when and how you might need to adapt. Sophia: Sounds like a lot to keep track of. But it makes sense—positioning isn't a "set it and forget it" thing. It's more like holding a lantern in a dark market maze, constantly adjusting your path to find your way. Daniel: Exactly! That's the beauty of Dunford's approach. By treating positioning as an ongoing process, businesses don't just survive; they thrive. Whether it's refining your sales story, aligning internal strategies, or being vigilant about reassessment, these steps ensure your product remains indispensable in the eyes of your audience.

Daniel: Okay, so, to bring our discussion of April Dunford's “Obviously Awesome” to a close, let's remember that positioning is really much more than just branding, right? It's actually the strategic foundation for your product’s entire success. We talked about what positioning truly means, how it molds customer perception, and why standing out is more crucial than just claiming to be "better." Sophia: And we really dug into Dunford's 10-step roadmap, which is surprisingly practical, offering a step-by-step guide to discovering that sweet spot in a saturated market. From getting to know your superfans to pinpointing competitors, highlighting your one-of-a-kind features, synchronizing your internal operations, and crafting that irresistible sales pitch – it's all about making your voice heard above the clamor. Daniel: Absolutely, but remember, it doesn't end there! It's about being adaptable, constantly re-evaluating your positioning to keep pace with market changes and competitor moves. It's this continuous refinement that keeps your product relevant and packing a punch, you know? Sophia: The key takeaway here is pretty simple: if you're not actively shaping how people see your product, someone else will do it for you, and trust me, they probably won't be as kind. So, let's make sure your product is not just "good", but perfectly positioned to conquer the market it's destined for. Daniel: And if this sounds like a lot to take in, don't worry! Positioning isn't some kind of mystical art; it's a skill you develop. Start small, revisit it frequently, and most important of all, remember Dunford’s golden rule: “perception creates value”. Sophia: So, get out there, create your positioning masterpiece, and make absolutely sure your product doesn’t fade into the background noise, like a forgotten song in the subway. Daniel: That’s it for today's episode! Stay curious, stay strategic, and always aim for, well, obviously awesome!