Autumn: Hey everyone, welcome back! Rachel, quick question for you – have you ever wondered if you're just naturally good at something, or if you've just gotten better because you “really” worked at it? Rachel: Definitely. I used to tell myself, "I'm just not a math person." But looking back, maybe I just wasn't good at asking for help when I needed it. So, Autumn, are you about to drag me kicking and screaming out of my comfort zone again with this topic? Autumn: Maybe a little! Today we're diving into something I think is super relevant for everyone: mindset. Carol Dweck's book, “Mindset: The New Psychology of Success,” is our guide. It explores how our beliefs about our abilities – whether they're fixed or something we can develop – can “really” change everything about how we achieve success. Rachel: Okay, so we're talking about fixed versus growth mindsets, right? The difference between thinking, "I'm just not talented at this", versus, "I can improve if I put in the effort." It sounds pretty straightforward, but there’s more to it than just talent, isn't there? Autumn: Exactly! Dweck demonstrates how these mindsets, often without us even realizing, shape our careers, relationships, and how we handle setbacks. A fixed mindset is like saying, "This is just who I am," while a growth mindset says, "This is what I can become." And it’s not just theoretical; she gives us actual strategies for cultivating that growth mindset. Rachel: Ah, so there's practical advice involved, I like that! So, Autumn, lay out the plan for us. What’s on the agenda today? Autumn: Happy to! We're going to break this down into three parts. First, we’ll explore the battle of the Mindsets and discuss how our beliefs about our abilities often hold us back more than we think. Then, we’ll delve into why that growth mindset is a total game-changer for learning and achievement. Finally, we’ll zoom in on real-world examples of how shifting mindsets drives success in classrooms, sports, and even in offices. We're going to see that grit often beats raw talent. Rachel: So, it sounds like we're rewiring our brains to turn "I can't" into "I can, with practice." Empowering, sure, but I already have questions swirling. Like, how does self-doubt tie into all this? Autumn: Oh, that's a great question, Rachel. We've got a lot to unpack there. You ready to jump in?

Autumn: Okay, let's dive right in, shall we? The bedrock of this whole conversation is understanding the difference between a fixed and a growth mindset. A fixed mindset is essentially the belief that your abilities—your intelligence, your talents, your creative spark—are, well, set in stone. It's like you're trapped in a box, thinking, "This is all I am, this is all I'll ever be. Period." Rachel: Exactly, so if you're in a fixed mindset, you're thinking you either have talent. End of discussion. The thought of failure probably feels like a personal attack on your identity. Autumn: Precisely. And, you know, that's often why people with fixed mindsets tend to shy away from challenges. They’d rather protect their ego than risk it being “exposed,” right? On the other hand, the growth mindset is all about, well, “growth.” It's the belief that you can develop abilities through hard work, learning new things, and, yes, even through messing up! It reframes failure as feedback, a stepping stone, not the end of everything. Rachel: Okay, I get it, this all “sounds” fantastic. But let me play devil's advocate for a second. Can someone truly just decide to "persevere" when failure feels, honestly, crushing? Autumn: That's the million-dollar question, isn't it? That's also one reason why Dweck's work has really struck a chord. She's not saying it's a walk in the park, but she supports her argument with neuroscience and solid research. Look at her classic study with kids solving puzzles. She saw these really different reactions when things got tough. One kid practically lit up; he said, "I love a challenge!" when things became difficult. See? His growth mindset just kicked in. He was treating the difficulty like some thrilling climb. Rachel: And the kid stuck in a fixed mindset...? Did he throw the puzzle across the room? Autumn: Maybe not that dramatically, but his frustration was pretty clear. He just disengaged, gave up, seeing the challenge as proof that he wasn't good enough. It wasn’t that he was bad at the puzzle—the puzzle was bad “for him.” The fear of failure became the barrier to learning. Rachel: Wow, so two kids, same puzzle, completely different reactions. It's like they're at a fork in the road. One sees opportunity; the other sees certain doom. Autumn: And that's the critical piece. Students with fixed mindsets connect the struggle with some personal flaw, you know? The ones with growth mindsets see struggle as a natural part of the deal—a necessary piece of the puzzle. Dweck often says, "Effort ignites ability." Rachel: "Effort ignites ability." I like the sound of that. Poetry! But let's zoom out a bit. Where do these mindsets even come from? Is it nature, nurture, or do we just randomly decide one day, "Fixed mindset? Sounds good to me!" Autumn: That’s a great question, Rachel. It's definitely a mix of things, but nurture plays a “huge” role. Dweck points the finger directly at feedback. The feedback you get from parents, teachers, coaches, etc. If kids constantly hear "You're so smart" instead of "You worked so hard," they might think that being "smart" is a fixed trait, something you have to protect. That praise, even though it’s well-intentioned, can kind of lock them into a fixed mindset. Rachel: Wait a minute, so complimenting someone for being smart could actually backfire? I mean, isn't that how most report card conversations play out? Autumn: It feels counterintuitive, doesn't it? But here's the thing: The problem is what psychologists call "labeling." When you connect someone's identity to success, whether it's being smart, talented, or athletic, you create pressure to keep that label. And that discourages them from taking risks, because failure becomes a threat to their entire identity. Rachel: That's... a little unsettling. I wonder how many kids have avoided trying something new just because they didn't want to lose their "smart" badge. Autumn: Exactly! But here's the flip side: Praising effort over inherent ability equips children to handle challenges with resilience. Instead of fearing failure, they see it as part of the learning curve. And that little shift can completely change someone's trajectory. Rachel: That reminds me of something Dweck said about labeling "smart" kids in her own sixth grade class, right? The moment they got that label, the pressure was on. Learning wasn’t about curiosity—it was about performing! Autumn: Exactly. And that pressure doesn't just stay in the classroom. Dweck draws parallels to real life. Similar fixed-mindset fears discourage risk-taking in relationships, in careers, even in hobbies. Think about it—if you believe failing means you're "not enough," wouldn't you just play it safe all the time? Rachel: For sure, but how do you ever grow that way? You'd just be stuck, like a hamster on the wheel of mediocrity. Autumn: Exactly! And that’s where the growth mindset is a game-changer. Remember that puzzle study? Well, for students who embraced a growth mindset, even failure actually sparked their curiosity. Later brain-wave studies backed this up. People with growth mindsets showed “increased” brain activity when they got feedback or corrections, even when addressing mistakes. Their brains were literally wired to prioritize learning from failure. Rachel: That's fascinating, and kind of validating too. It means we're not biologically doomed to be fixed in our perspectives. It hints that rewiring is possible. Autumn: Absolutely. And that's why environments matter so much, whether it’s a classroom, an office, or even your circle of friends. When systems celebrate learning and progress, not just instant results, they build resilience. It's about shifting the focus from "What's my score?" to "What did I discover?" Rachel: Let me guess - this is where teachers and workplaces come in? If they're not fostering growth, they're basically reinforcing limitations? Autumn: You got it! That's really the takeaway that Dweck wants us to embrace: environments that reward effort, strategy, and persistence – not just the end result – build problem-solvers who can adapt and thrive even when things are uncertain. Rachel: So, if I wanted to boil it all down, the fixed mindset clings to comfort zones, while the growth mindset says, "Throw me into the deep end, I'll figure it out eventually." Autumn: Perfectly put. And it's that "eventually," that belief you can grow over time, that separates those who stay stuck from those who take off.

Autumn: Okay, Rachel, now that we've built that strong foundation about mindsets, let's talk about how this all influences learning and achievement. Because honestly, understanding fixed versus growth mindsets is just the starting point, right? We need to see how they actually “work”. Rachel: Exactly! It’s one thing to understand the theory, but how does it translate into real-world results? I'm intrigued. Where do we even begin? Autumn: Let's jump right into one of Dweck's classic studies with preschoolers and puzzles. Imagine this: You give these kids a choice: super easy puzzles or, you know, a bit of a challenge. And here's where things get interesting. The kids with a growth mindset? They went straight for the harder puzzles without a second thought. They were genuinely excited to try something they weren't already good at, simply because they saw it as a chance to learn! Rachel: So, basically, they treated it like an adventure. And I'm guessing the kids with the fixed mindset weren't exactly lining up for the challenging puzzles? Autumn: Nope! They were all about avoiding anything that could make them look bad. You see, it wasn't about whether they “liked” puzzles or not; it was about protecting their self-image. In their mind, difficulty equaled failure, and that was something to avoid at all costs. Rachel: It’s kind of ironic, isn’t it? By playing it safe, they're missing out on the very opportunity to improve. It's like refusing to learn a new skill because you're afraid you won't be good at it right away. Autumn: Exactly! And that avoidance becomes a trap. But the really fascinating thing is that this doesn't just apply to preschoolers playing with puzzles. Dweck gives another example of university students in Hong Kong who needed to improve their English. The growth-oriented ones jumped at the chance, seeing it as essential for their future. But those with a fixed mindset? They wanted nothing to do with it! They didn't want to risk exposing their weaknesses. Rachel: It's incredible how that fear plays out at different stages of life, right? Whether you're three or twenty-three, a fixed mindset can hold you back in the same way. Autumn: Absolutely! It really shows how your mindset isn't just a one-time thing—it evolves with you unless you actively challenge it. And, you know, that avoidance – the thing that stops you from learning and growing – slowly causes those opportunities to just disappear. Rachel: That explains why some people seem stuck in a rut, always playing it safe. They think they're protecting themselves, but they're really just preventing themselves from reaching their full potential. Autumn: Exactly. And that, Rachel, leads us to our next big topic: feedback and how it affects learning and achievement. A lot of people just assume feedback is neutral, but the truth is, our mindset has a huge impact on how we see it, and what we do with it. Rachel: I'm guessing that people with a fixed mindset love feedback as much as they love hard puzzles and English classes? Autumn: You nailed it! Dweck's research goes deep into this. For people with a growth mindset, constructive feedback is a gift. It's like a flashlight showing them where they need to improve. But for those with a fixed mindset, it’s all about getting validation. They just want praise and shut down anything that seems like criticism. Rachel: So, they're only listening for compliments and ignoring anything else. I get why, since criticism can be uncomfortable, but it sounds like a recipe for stagnation, doesn't it? Autumn: Absolutely. Dweck even did brain-wave studies that showed this playing out in real-time. Those with a growth mindset showed higher levels of interest and engagement when they got critical feedback because they saw it as a chance to become better. On the other hand, the fixed-mindset group pretty much tuned out. Their brains only lit up when they heard something positive, while they completely ignored anything pointing out their flaws. Rachel: Wow. So, selective hearing is actually a real, scientifically proven thing! But how do you even break that cycle? Are people actively training their brains to deal with tough feedback? Autumn: That's where mindset interventions come into play. But before we go into solutions, let me share a quick story from classrooms. Fifth-graders were given something they thought was an intelligence test. What it was didn't matter, it was just a black box. The fixed-mindset students were terrified of what this test might say about them, while the growth-minded ones questioned the very validity of the test itself. They weren't afraid of labels because they believed that even if they didn't measure up now, they could still improve with effort. Rachel: The contrast is huge! It's like one group is letting the test define them, while the other is saying, “Nah, you don't get to decide my worth.” Autumn: Exactly! And the implications are massive. How we process feedback affects whether we grow stronger or let the fear of judgment paralyze us. Rachel: And I'm guessing this ties into failure as well, right? Because feedback and failure kind of feel like two sides of the same coin. Autumn: You're absolutely right. Now, let's dive into how failure can be either a roadblock or a stepping stone. When someone with a fixed mindset fails at something, they often see it as confirmation that they’re just not good enough and never will be. That fear just shuts them down completely. Rachel: So, it's the ultimate "what's the point" spiral. Makes sense. And what about people with a growth mindset? How do they handle failure? Autumn: Well, the growth mindset thrives on failure – not because they “like” it, but because they see it as essential for getting better. Take Thomas Edison. He failed thousands of times trying to invent the light bulb. But, you know, each “failure” taught him what “didn't” work, which eventually led him to what “did”. Rachel: So, Edison basically turned failure into his research assistant. The key is not necessarily avoiding failure, but using it to learn, right? Autumn: Exactly! Failure becomes information. This reframing takes effort, and it starts with creating environments that promote growth-oriented thinking. You see, schools, workplaces, even families can teach people that failure isn’t the end; it’s just a part of the process. Rachel: I'm starting to think that this whole mindset thing applies to way more than just school. It affects how you handle challenges in every part of life – like running a business or sticking to a new workout routine. Autumn: Absolutely! And it also shapes how we define success. In schools, Dweck recommends focusing on effort, strategy, and persistence, rather than just grades. Take Marva Collins, for instance. She took students who were labeled as underachievers and set high expectations for them and got great results. Her students thrived beyond what anyone expected, proving the power of a growth mindset. Rachel: I love that shift in focus. Instead of being afraid of the grade, students are investing in how they got there. It's really empowering. Autumn: Exactly. And that's the core of Dweck's message. By shifting from restrictive labels to dynamic paths of improvement, we unlock potential – in school, in our careers, and in our personal lives.

Autumn: So, with the impact on individual performance so clear, it naturally leads to bigger things, right? Where do we go from here, Rachel? Rachel: Exactly, Autumn, where are we heading next? Autumn: We're going to look at how a growth mindset applies to education, sports, and business. It “really” shows you how versatile it is. So, let's see how it works in these three areas, shall we? Rachel: Great, education first then? Autumn: Yes, let’s start with education. When students have a growth mindset, they're more resilient and see challenges as chances to grow, not as threats. Think about Marva Collins, a Chicago teacher who worked with kids who were labeled "unteachable." Rachel: Right, they were basically given a fixed mindset label. Talk about setting someone up for failure. Autumn: Exactly! But Collins didn't accept that. She created a classroom where she believed in her students, she had very high expectations with unwavering belief in their potential. She exposed them to challenging stuff like Macbeth and philosophy – things people thought they couldn't handle; I mean, they even read Macbeth! Rachel: So she basically told them, "I know you can do this! Even if you don't think you can yet." Autumn: Exactly, Rachel! And she encouraged them to see failure as learning. It wasn't about avoiding mistakes, it was about learning from them. And the results were amazing! Students who were once considered "hopeless" thrived and gained confidence. Rachel: That's amazing because it changes everything. Instead of "Are you talented?", it's "Are you willing to work hard?" What about feedback? Was she intentional about that too? Autumn: Absolutely. She didn't just say, "You're smart." That reinforces a fixed mindset. She praised the effort and persistence. Instead of "You're a great reader", she might say, "Your determination to understand that paragraph “really” paid off." It put the focus on the process, not just the result. Rachel: Makes you think how many times we say things like "Wow, you're so talented," when we might be doing more harm than good. So her approach built resilience – and probably prepared them for bigger challenges later in life. Autumn: Exactly. And it’s the same in sports. How a coach frames setbacks determines if an athlete gets discouraged or becomes more resilient. Rachel: Let me guess, you're going to bring up Michael Jordan now? Autumn: I can’t resist, he's a classic! He was famously cut from his high school team. Someone with a fixed mindset might have thought, "I'm just not good enough," and given up. But Jordan saw it differently, following his mother’s advice: “If you want it, you’ve got to work for it” and practiced like crazy. Rachel: So he used that rejection as motivation. He just burned the boats and left himself no choice but to get better. And we know how that turned out – six NBA championships! Autumn: Exactly. He turned that into motivation to get better, didn't he? Setbacks aren't signs of failure, they're stepping stones. John McEnroe, was so talented, but he was often stuck in a fixed mindset, blaming referees or weather for his losses instead of looking inward. Rachel: At least he was consistent about blaming everything else. It's a stark contrast – Jordan used failure as a mirror, while McEnroe used it as a shield. Autumn: Yes, that’s a fantastic way to put it. Talent plus a fixed mindset only gets you so far. Lasting success requires adaptability and learning from challenges. And that's why coaching is so important. A coach who instills a growth mindset can unlock potential beyond just raw talent. Rachel: Which brings us to business, right? I'd imagine the same principle – creating an environment of resilience and growth – would apply directly to teams and organizations? Autumn: Absolutely, Rachel. In business, a growth mindset focuses on teamwork, adaptability, and new ideas. Leaders “really” set the tone for whether a company grows or stays stuck. Look at Anne Mulcahy at Xerox. When she took over as CEO, the company was in trouble. Instead of panicking or pointing fingers, she got involved in learning every aspect of the business. Rachel: I remember that story. She didn't try to be the hero, she prioritized collaboration. Autumn: Exactly! She built trust, was transparent, and involved her employees in finding solutions. She fostered an environment where learning and experimentation were appreciated, Mulcahy stabilized Xerox and helped it become innovative again. Her leadership shows how powerful a growth mindset can be. Rachel: And what's interesting is it wasn't just her decisions, but the environment she cultivated. Compare that to… Enron, for example. A toxic fixed mindset there – valuing appearances over everything else – led to disaster. Autumn: Exactly. At Enron, leaders didn't tolerate mistakes. Employees were so focused on protecting themselves that they couldn't address critical failures. Their need to look "brilliant" blinded them to growth and collaboration. It's a reminder that a fixed mindset can ruin even the most talented organizations. Rachel: Right. And to change that dynamic, you need accountability and open communication – a space where employees feel safe to experiment and learn without being afraid of failure. Autumn: Totally. That’s why leaders who celebrate effort and improvement build more resilient teams. Simple things, like discussing lessons from failed projects or celebrating process-driven successes, change how teams see setbacks. Instead of paralyzing you, failure becomes a learning opportunity. Rachel: So overall, in a classroom, a sports field, or an office, a growth mindset means that improvement is always possible if you're willing to learn and adapt. Autumn: Exactly. How those principles play out can be different, but their potential to transform remains the same.

Autumn: Okay, so, to bring our discussion on “Mindset: The New Psychology of Success” by Carol Dweck to a close, we've really gone deep into the differences between a fixed mindset and a growth mindset. It's amazing how one can “really” hold you back, while the other just opens up all sorts of possibilities. We talked about how the growth mindset builds resilience, changes how we see failure, and pushes us to achieve more in school, sports, and even at work. Rachel: Yeah, and we definitely had some "aha" moments along the way, right? Like, realizing how important it is to praise effort instead of just saying someone's naturally talented. Or how fear of messing up can stop us in our tracks. And, of course, how facing challenges head-on—instead of trying to dodge them—is so crucial for growing, both personally and professionally. Autumn: Precisely. This entire book encourages us to completely rethink our approach to setbacks. I mean, they're not stop signs, telling us to quit. But rather stepping stones, showing us how to learn and improve. Here's like the core message: our skills and abilities aren't fixed. With some hard work, good feedback, and the right attitude, we can foster growth—in ourselves and in others. Rachel: So, here's a question: We've been talking about personal growth a lot from this book, but what happens when you are at the top level of the something, such as the best NBA player? How would mindset affect them? Autumn: Lebron is proof that even at the top level your mindset matters, without the the right mindset he would not have been able to adjust his play and game to match the need of his team and his aging body. Having to adjust his game to remain competitive, he needed to adopt a growth mindset to accept that certain areas of his game had to be changed and improved upon. Rachel: I see. And as a final thought, the next time you're hearing that little voice in your head whispering, "I can't do this," just try adding one tiny word: "yet." Maybe getting to where you want to be isn't about being perfect from the start. Maybe it's more about just showing up, learning as you go, and getting a little better each day. Autumn: Beautifully put, Rachel. Let’s consciously make "yet" a regular part of how we speak every day, yeah? Because remember, growth is always there for the taking — if you truly believe it. And so, until our next discussion!