Alex: Hey everyone, welcome to the show! Today we are going to talk about something really interesting leadership, but in a very concise way two words at a time. Think about your own leadership journey, right? Whether you are leading a team, a project, or even just yourself. How confident are you that you are doing it right? Leadership can feel like a daunting maze, but what if the answers could fit into just two simple words? Intriguing, isn’t it? Michelle: Intriguing, definitely. But, let’s be honest here two words? “Really?” That sounds like the IKEA manual for leadership. Helpful, or just oversimplified? I guess that is what we are here to discuss and figure out, isn't it? Alex: You got it! The book we are exploring today is Leadership Two Words at a Time by Bill Treasurer. It’s a brilliant guide, “really,” that simplifies leadership into these bite-sized lessons while still keeping the depth, you know? It is all about teaching you how to lead yourself, lead people, and lead work. So we are talking self-awareness, trust-building, humility, and getting meaningful results, all through real-life stories, reflection tools, and hands-on advice. Michelle: Okay, so basically, Bill packs like, three MBA classes' worth of wisdom into two-word soundbites. That's pretty impressive if he can actually pull it off. Alex: Exactly! And here is what we have lined up for today. Imagine leadership like building a house. First, we will lay the foundation: self-awareness as the bedrock of authentic leadership. Then, we will put up the walls trust and talent. How do you create trust that inspires innovation? And how do you nurture and empower others without micromanaging? Next up, we will talk about accountability, the structural beams that actually keep the whole thing standing. And finally, we will add the finishing touch the big picture of leaving a meaningful leadership legacy. Michelle: A house, huh? Hopefully not one of those fixer-uppers, right? Otherwise, we are in for a lot of "leadership renovations." Sounds exhausting already. Alex: Leadership does take some upkeep, Michelle but trust me, this book sets you up with a solid blueprint. So, shall we jump in? Michelle: Let's do it.

Alex: Okay, so let's dive in, shall we? We're starting with self-awareness and personal growth, and there's a reason it's first. You really can't effectively lead anyone else if you don't have a solid grasp of who “you” are. Leadership truly does start from within, doesn't it? Michelle: That makes perfect sense. Stepping into leadership without knowing yourself is like, well, trying to sail a ship without a compass. So, let's unpack this a bit—what exactly are we talking about when we say self-awareness? Is it just about knowing your weaknesses, or is there something more to it? Alex: That's a fantastic question. The book explains that self-awareness goes beyond simply identifying your flaws. It's really about understanding how your values, your motivations, your strengths, and even your emotional triggers and fears, all contribute to shaping your behavior and the decisions you make. For example, think of a leader who makes impulsive decisions when things get stressful. Without self-awareness, they may not even realize that fear, maybe a fear of failure, is actually driving those choices. Michelle: Right, so it's like, being able to take a step back, look at yourself, and ask, "Okay, why am I “really” doing this? What's the motivation behind this reaction?" Alex: Exactly! And the thing the book really emphasizes is that self-awareness isn't just a one-time epiphany; it's an ongoing practice. There was a great example in the book about a leader who learned to pause when they felt frustrated. They would intentionally ask themselves, "Okay, what fear is making me react this way “right now”?" So instead of lashing out when a project was delayed or if the team missed a deadline, they took a breath and re-evaluated their emotions. That pause created space to engage with the team in a more constructive way. Michelle: That's a pretty interesting strategy. But Alex, let's be real here. Pausing to consider your "inner fears" in the middle of a full-blown crisis? I mean, come on. When you're under pressure, is self-reflection really realistic? Leaders are juggling deadlines, expectations, sometimes even egos. Who has the time to stop and unpack their emotions? Alex: I hear you, Michelle, it's definitely not the easiest thing to do and it takes pratice. But this is where emotional mastery comes into play. The book isn't suggesting you schedule a spur-of-the-moment therapy session in the middle of the crisis, right? Emotional mastery is really about training yourself to recognize those patterns before they escalate. It’s about proactively building habits—things like journaling or seeking out feedback—so that when your emotions start to flare up, you've already got some practice on how to process them productively. Michelle: Hmm. Speaking of feedback, now that's a double-edged sword, isn't it? Asking people to critique you sounds like a brave move, but it also feels like opening Pandora's Box. I mean, what if you hear something that you really don't like, or worse, what if the feedback is just completely inaccurate? Alex: That's precisely why it's so important to ask trusted sources, people who know you well and genuinely want to see you succeed. When leaders avoid feedback altogether, they miss out on a lot of insight that could potentially elevate their leadership skills. For instance, imagine a manager who is consistently getting pushback in meetings and has no idea why. A trusted colleague might say, "Hey, sometimes your tone comes across as a little dismissive," or "You tend to dominate the conversation." That kind of feedback can shine a light on blind spots that you just wouldn't be able to recognize on your own. Michelle: Alright, fair enough—getting feedback from people you trust sounds a lot less terrifying. But what about the more practical side of self-awareness, the day-to-day stuff? How can a leader actually build this "muscle" without turning their entire schedule into a never-ending self-help workshop? Alex: That's a really valid point. The book actually offers some very actionable tools for cultivating self-awareness without it feeling like a chore. Take journaling, for example. It’s simple, but so powerful. By just reflecting on your day—what went well, what didn't—you start to spot patterns. You might notice, "I tend to struggle during afternoon meetings because I'm already tapped out." Making adjustments based on things like that can improve not just your effectiveness, but also your interactions with your team. Michelle: Journaling? I don’t know... it kind of sounds solitary to me. What if leaders need something more external, something beyond their own reflections and thoughts? Alex: Well, that's where coaching or even therapy can be really beneficial. For example, there was a leader in the book who worked with a coach to really examine how their job stress was impacting their team dynamics. Through those guided sessions, they realized that unrealistic expectations were the root cause of the issue, and they learned to delegate more effectively. That professional perspective created a shift that they really couldn't have achieved on their own. Michelle: Okay, so we've got journaling, feedback, coaching... What about gratitude? I think I remember seeing that the book mentioned this as part of self-awareness. Are we talking about making a gratitude list, or...? Alex: Gratitude is a foundational practice that helps leaders gain perspective. It's certainly not just about listing things you're grateful for, it's about actively training your brain to focus on what's truly important. When leaders practice gratitude, they tend to stay grounded. They're less likely to get completely caught up in minor frustrations because they're constantly reminding themselves of the bigger picture. Michelle: Huh. Sounds like a leadership reset button. But what about knowing where to draw the line? I mean, too much navel-gazing can turn into analysis paralysis, right? Isn't there a danger in over-analyzing everything about yourself? Alex: Absolutely! Which is why the book also talks about the duality of our strengths. Being self-aware means recognizing your strengths, but also knowing when those same strengths can become liabilities. Like, an analytical leader might be great at solving complex issues quickly, but if they overuse that analytical strength, they risk coming across as cold or overly critical. Balancing those traits is absolute key. Michelle: That’s a tough balance to strike. I remember the example of the leader in the book who overwhelmed their team with all their creative ideas. Great strength—endless innovation. But when it becomes too much, it leaves the team paralyzed by too many options. Alex: Right, and that's why self-awareness isn't just about knowing your strengths, it's about knowing how to channel them. It's about asking yourself, "Is my strength really serving the team, or is it actually stifling them?" Michelle: Got it. So self-awareness is basically your internal GPS. It helps you figure out where you are, where you might be veering off course, and how to correct it so that you can get back on track. Makes sense. Let's keep going—how does this level of self-understanding pave the way for leading others?

Alex: So, with a solid base of self-awareness, leaders can really focus on building strong relationships with their teams. And that leads us to the next key: trust and psychological safety. Self-awareness helps you understand yourself, sure, but trust? That's what turns that understanding into meaningful connections. It’s the bridge between self-awareness and actually developing an effective team. Michelle: Bridges, huh? Well, those can definitely collapse without the right support. Trust is also one of those abstract buzzwords, though. So, what are we “really” talking about here? Alex: Well, when we talk about trust in leadership, it's the foundation for open communication and collaboration. Without it, you're just managing a group of individuals, not leading a team. The book makes it clear: psychological safety is crucial. If team members feel safe to express themselves – share ideas, voice concerns, or admit mistakes – they're more likely to fully engage and contribute. Michelle: I get that. But I bet leaders don't wake up thinking, "How's the psychological safety around here today?" It's a nice concept, but what's a real-world approach to building it? You can't just say, "Trust me," because, let's be honest, that always sounds suspicious. Alex: That’s so true. The book outlines three key things you can do: show vulnerability, actively listen, and be empathetic. Let’s start with talking about vulnerability, which is surprisingly underrated in leadership. Michelle: Vulnerability in leadership? Sounds like a recipe for your team to question your competence. Aren’t leaders supposed to project confidence? The "strong and steady" captain type? Alex: I get what you’re saying, Michelle, but it's not about ditching confidence – it's about adding authenticity. The book tells a story about a department head facing a company restructure. Instead of acting like they knew everything, the leader said, "I don't have all the answers, but we'll figure it out together." That honesty reassured the team. Instead of feeling alienated by perfection, the team felt involved in problem-solving and more willing to share their concerns. Michelle: Interesting… so the vulnerability didn’t undermine them – it actually humanized them. Alex: Exactly. Vulnerability isn't weakness. It takes courage. And when a leader shows they're okay with not being perfect, it signals to the team that it's safe to share ideas or even admit to mistakes. That transparency builds a deeper level of trust. Michelle: Okay, I see how that could work. But vulnerability has limits, right? I mean, imagine a leader starting every meeting by talking about their existential crises. Team morale would plummet. Alex: Of course, it's about balance! Vulnerability doesn’t mean oversharing every worry – it's about being real in moments where authenticity matters. Which brings us to active listening. Michelle: Listening… that's a skill leaders think they already have. They'll say, "I hear what you're saying," while scrolling through emails. Alex: Right, but listening is more than just hearing. It’s about really engaging and showing your team that their perspective matters. One example from the book that I love is when a leader diffused a tense meeting by simply pausing and saying, "I can see this concerns you. Tell me more." That genuine curiosity exposed the real issue – concerns about workload – not just the surface-level frustration. Michelle: That's a great tactic. But let's be honest, active listening takes patience – something most leaders rarely have time for. How do you slow down when the clock's always ticking? Alex: It’s about prioritizing quality over speed in certain interactions. Leaders need to engage, not just tick the "I listened" box. Eye contact, open body language, thoughtful questions… Listening is as important as any solution you might offer. Michelle: Alright, that makes sense. And it plays into reading between the lines too, right? Picking up on what's not being said – an employee's hesitation or a downward glance. Those non-verbal cues can be just as telling as the words. Alex: Exactly. Active listening requires leaders to be fully present, verbally and non-verbally. When done consistently, it reinforces trust because the team sees that their leader “really” values their input. Michelle: Alright. So, leaders show some vulnerability, listen intentionally – and then there’s empathy, right? How is that different from just being nice? Alex: Empathy goes way deeper than niceness. It’s about truly understanding and feeling what someone else is going through – and then responding in a way that addresses their needs. One story from the book “really” shows this – a business owner personally brought coffee and donuts to their night shift crew during a snowstorm. Michelle: Wait. Showing up with snacks built trust? That seems pretty low-effort for such a supposedly powerful outcome. Alex: It might seem small, but the impact was huge. That simple gesture said, "I see you, and I value the hard work you're doing, even when it’s invisible to most." Those moments of empathy reinforce psychological safety. Michelle: Hm, so empathy is “really” about being intentional – finding those moments where recognition has the most impact. Alex: Exactly. As the book emphasizes, empathy builds trust because it shows emotional investment. By showing employees they’re valued as people, not just "resources," leaders create a culture where the team feels safe. Michelle: Vulnerability, active listening, empathy… that’s a strong list. But what about the skeptics, the ones who say, "This sounds warm and fuzzy, but what's the payoff?" Alex: I’m glad you asked that. Research shows that teams with high psychological safety are more innovative, collaborative, and willing to take smart risks without fearing failure. By building trust, leaders don’t just create harmony – they lay the groundwork for high performance. Michelle: So, trust isn’t just about kumbaya moments; it's a strategy for growth. Makes sense. What's the next step after establishing trust?

Alex: Once trust is established, leaders can really start focusing on nurturing their team's potential. That's where team development and empowerment come in. It builds on that initial trust, focusing on practical steps to boost team performance and overall morale. You see a real transformation when leaders invest in their people instead of just managing tasks—not only for the individuals but for the entire team dynamic. Michelle: Okay, so we're talking about moving beyond just “getting the job done” to actually creating a team that's engaged, thriving, and really leveling up. Sounds great, but let's be real. What tools does a leader actually have to make that happen? Are we talking about inspirational coffee mugs with “Teamwork Makes the Dream Work” slogans? Alex: Nice try, Michelle. Look, those mugs might give you a little boost in the morning, but real team development takes intentional action from leaders. One really powerful tool is delegation—not the kind where you just offload tasks to lighten your burden, but purposeful delegation that stretches your team's capabilities. Michelle: Delegation, huh? You mean the old “teach a person to fish” approach? I get it, but let's be honest: a lot of leaders struggle to delegate effectively. Either they think, “I could just do this faster myself,” or, “What if they mess it up?” So how does delegation actually empower teams instead of just creating more problems? Alex: Great question. Intentional delegation isn't just about getting rid of tasks, and it's definitely not about expecting perfection. It's about trust and growth, right? Like in the book, there's a case about a construction manager who decided to delegate a crucial safety plan to someone new but with massive potential. He hesitated because the stakes were high, but then he realized that holding onto the task would actually stifle his team's development as well as his own ability to focus on the bigger picture. Michelle: Let me guess—classic micromanagement kicking in. The old “if you want it done right, do it yourself” mindset? Alex: Exactly. But he took a leap, offered some guidance, and let that person take true ownership, and honestly, that's when the real magic happened. Not only did the team member develop an awesome safety plan, but they also grew in confidence and felt super accomplished. Meanwhile, the leader freed up his time to deal with the more important things. Delegation, when done right, is less about the outcome and more about empowering someone to grow. Michelle: Okay, so delegation is really more of an investment than a quick fix. Fair enough. But what about those tasks that feel too critical to risk delegating? How do you balance delegation with ensuring you still get quality results? Alex: It's all about calibrating the challenge. Effective leaders delegate tasks with the right level of challenge—in the book, they call it creating "gulp moments." It's about pushing someone slightly beyond their comfort zone. Enough to make progress exciting, not so much that they're paralyzed. It’s about setting them up for a win while letting them stretch those muscles. Michelle: Gulp moments, huh? You mean tasks that make people think, “This might push me to the edge, but I'll give it a shot anyway?” Sounds thrilling for some, terrifying for others. Alex: Thrilling and terrifying, Michelle, that's the whole point! There was a leader who one time tried to help a team member tackle their fear of public speaking. Instead of avoiding the problem, they presented a gulp-worthy challenge: delivering a section of a quarterly report to the entire team. It was a big stretch, but with the leader's support—mentoring, practice, feedback—they totally nailed it. That achievement didn't just boost their confidence in speaking; it changed the way they perceived themselves and their potential. Michelle: I like that. It’s like giving people wings but walking alongside them as they take flight. But Alex, what happens when a “gulp goal” really is too much, and they fail? Doesn’t that kind of crash-and-burn destroy confidence instead of building it? Alex: That's where mentorship, resources, and encouragement really come in, right? You don't just leave someone alone to figure it out. You equip them with the tools to succeed while helping them see that a little discomfort—even some mistakes—are normal parts of growth. In fact, the book emphasizes that mistakes aren't failures; they're learning opportunities. Michelle: Okay, “mistakes are learning opportunities.” Easy to say, harder to live through, especially when the stakes are high. How do leaders actually create an environment where team members feel safe to stumble now and then without fearing some kind of backlash? Alex: It takes solid cultural foundations. Leaders need to weave development opportunities into the everyday fabric of work while making it clear that learning involves some trial and error. Say, rotating roles or involving team members in important decisions, even if their execution isn't perfect. Here's a specific example: assigning a promising team member to lead a planning meeting. Okay, they might not get every detail perfect, but the work itself builds leadership skills, and that growth benefits the entire team. Michelle: Alright, so part of team empowerment means putting people in the driver’s seat, even when they’re still unfolding the map. But I'm curious, what about celebrating wins along the way, right? Does that play a role in empowerment? Alex: Absolutely. Recognition is crucial to fostering courage and boosting morale. The book tells a story about a leader who frequently praised a team member tackling a really challenging new role. I mean, even something small—a handwritten note that says, “I'm proud of what you're doing”—can be transformative. It tells the person, “Your effort matters.” That kind of validation builds resilience and encourages them to keep tackling future challenges with confidence. Michelle: I see the logic. But let's go deeper—what do you do when someone just doesn't want to step out of their comfort zone? I mean, not everyone dreams of “gulp moments” or leadership roles, right? Alex: That's a good point, Michelle, and here's where you have to understand individual motivations and show some empathy. Leaders shouldn't try to force everyone into the same mold. They should tailor goals and opportunities based on what excites them and drives them. Okay, so some team members might want to master technical skills, while others shine in collaborative environments. The point isn't just to push people uniformly; it's to help them grow in a direction they care about most. Michelle: Makes sense. Development isn't one-size-fits-all. But what about the mistakes themselves? Beyond just saying, “Hey, mistakes happen,” how do you actually convince people that failure is a stepping stone? Not everyone sees it that way, especially when performance reviews are just around the corner. Alex: Leaders can normalize learning discomfort by sharing their own stories of failure. Yeah, a personal story where they totally messed up a big project and what they learned from it can be really powerful. It humanizes them and sends the signal that mistakes are inevitable, and you can survive them. It's about framing failures as data points, not endpoints. Michelle: That's a solid approach. Leaders showing their scars, not just their medals, got it. Okay, I'm starting to understand this. Developing a team isn't just about building skills. It's about trust, opportunity, recognition, and even failure. And if you do all that well, you create what the book calls a “culture of courage,” right? Alex: Exactly—a culture where team members are empowered to innovate, to collaborate, and to take really smart risks. It's not about being reckless; it's about fostering confidence and resilience. When leaders lead with courage, celebrate bold attempts, and embrace growth—mistakes and all—that's when a team thrives under pressure and really delivers its best. Michelle: Alright, you've sold me on team development and empowerment. But I have to wonder—how much of this actually scales? I mean, a small, close-knit team might thrive this way, but what happens when the team or the organization just grows? Does it get harder to replicate?

Alex: That’s a great question, Michelle, really tees us up for talking about delivering results and accountability, which is kind of the next level of leadership, right? I mean, empowering teams is key, as we discussed. But ultimately, that empowerment needs to “lead” to achieving tangible results, especially when you start scaling up. So focusing on outcomes and accountability is super critical. Michelle: Accountability and results…yeah, definitely not the warm-and-fuzzy side of leadership, are they? But I get it. No matter how strong your relationships or how much trust you’ve built, leadership is still judged by what actually “gets done”. So, Alex, where do we even start with tying leadership to hard results? Alex: It all starts with turning that big, inspiring vision into something actionable, something really clear. A vision is fantastic, don’t get me wrong. It sets the long-term destination, but you have to bridge that gap with practical, measurable steps, or you'll never actually get there. The book really emphasizes using the SMART framework: Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Time-Bound goals. These give everyone a clear “north star,” so they know what they’re aiming for, and how success is actually defined. Michelle: SMART goals… I mean, “everyone”’s heard of them, but how often are they “really” used right? I feel like leaders just throw that acronym around without truly understanding what each letter stands for. Got any examples from the book where this framework actually mapped out real success? Alex: Oh, definitely. One example that stands out is Matt Malburg, a superintendent at Aldridge Electric. He’s amazing at turning big ideas into really precise, actionable goals. So, instead of just vaguely saying, “Let’s improve safety,” Matt got specific with targeted metrics. His team created a strategy that not only improved the safety protocols but even encouraged them to come up with their own creative solutions. Basically, Matt turned that abstract aspiration—"do better"—into measurable milestones. Michelle: Okay, so instead of "do better," it became "achieve X percent fewer incidents through these five specific changes." That's…actionable. But what happens when those organizational goals feel totally disconnected from the daily grind? How do you make them feel real to each team member? Alex: That’s where alignment becomes crucial. Leaders have to make sure that “everyone” understands how their role contributes to the overall mission. So, for example, if the organization's goal is a sustainability initiative, the legal team might focus on compliance, while the operations team tackles energy efficiency. When people see how their daily tasks connect to bigger outcomes, they see their purpose within the larger picture. Michelle: So, leaders have to be translators, not just visionaries. Good to know! Let's shift to the accountability piece now. That’s where the tension builds, because holding people accountable can make leaders feel like the “bad guy”, right? Alex: Totally. But accountability isn't about blaming people. It’s more about setting clear expectations and following through. The book talks about a VP at a marketing firm who turned around a struggling team by doing two things: setting clear KPIs—Key Performance Indicators—for everyone, and doing weekly check-ins. These check-ins weren't about micromanaging; they were about aligning on progress, discussing any obstacles, and prioritizing tasks. Michelle: Weekly check-ins? Sounds…tedious. Did the team actually “like” that, or was there a bit of a revolt at first? Alex: You know, at first, there was some resistance. People felt like it was more oversight. But they soon saw the value of it. Transparency and regular communication made everyone feel more supported “and” accountable. Morale went up, productivity soared, and they stopped missing deadlines. Michelle: Okay, so the check-ins weren’t just about “holding feet to the fire.” They were about creating a space for collaboration and problem-solving. Okay, I can get behind that. But what about when someone “consistently” doesn’t meet expectations? Alex: Well, the book suggests tackling underperformance with both firmness and empathy. Feedback should focus on the behavior, not the person, and it should be a coaching moment, not a punishment. The book outlines a little framework called BEER—Behavior, Effect, Expectation, Result. So, instead of saying, "You never meet deadlines," you might say, "When the data wasn't ready for the client meeting, it made it harder to close the deal. Going forward, I need you to make sure files are submitted by Friday, so we can stay on track." Michelle: BEER? Finally, a leadership framework with a name I can remember! But, seriously, that approach makes sense—focusing on specifics avoids defensiveness. Now, is there a way to "proactively" create accountability that feels less… imposed? Alex: That's where celebrating milestones and making progress visible comes in. The book highlights that recognizing achievements, big "or" small, keeps accountability going. Showing how someone's work contributes – whether it's a quick shout-out or a project dashboard – builds accountability naturally. When people see how their work matters, they want to stay engaged. Michelle: So, instead of policing behavior, you’re inspiring it by shining a light on progress. But Alex, what about the leaders themselves? Accountability flows downward “and” upward, right? Alex: Yes, absolutely, Michelle. You know, leaders have to “model” the accountability they expect. That means owning up to mistakes, or if they've missed their own deadlines. There’s a great story in the book about a leader who realized they weren’t delegating properly, not because their team was incapable, but because they were holding onto control. By admitting it to their team and changing their behavior, they reinforced a culture of shared accountability. Michelle: Interesting, so accountability is not just a productivity tool… it's a mirror for leadership integrity. And actually, it sounds like leaders can use accountability systems to reduce some of their own stress. Alex: Exactly. The pressure to deliver results can be heavy, but clear, defined goals and accountability lighten that load. Leaders don’t just drive outcomes. They build an atmosphere where success is a “shared” responsibility.

Alex: Beyond just hitting targets, leaders really need to think about the kind of legacy they’re building and the broader impact they're having. That leads us to something that's super important, but often overlooked: legacy and continuous improvement. It's about shifting the focus from short-term wins to the long-term influence you have on your team, the company culture, and the organization as a whole. Michelle: Legacy, huh? Sounds kind of grand. Are we talking CEO-level legacy, like building a massive empire? Or is it more about how your team remembers you? Alex: It's both, actually, Michelle. But I'd say the most valuable legacy isn't the fame or the scale, but the positive change you create in others. Specifically, in the people you lead and the culture you help shape. The book really emphasizes that a lasting legacy comes from reflecting on your actions, mentoring others, and creating a system where growth is constant for everyone. Michelle: Reflection as the starting point? Interesting. Let me guess, this is where a leader asks themselves, "How will people remember me?" Alex: Exactly! It's not just a thought exercise. It's about making sure that what you're doing now lines up with the kind of leader you want to be remembered as. The book tells this great story about a construction company owner. During a snowstorm, instead of staying in his warm office, he brought coffee and donuts to his overnight crew working in the freezing cold. When asked why, he said, "How can I expect respect if I don't show them the respect they deserve, especially when they need it most?" Michelle: Aha! That's a classic "actions speak louder than words" moment. He wasn't just saying he valued his team; he showed up and acknowledged their hard work and tough conditions. Alex: Exactly. That story really drives home the point about how the small, intentional acts of respect and recognition often define a leader's legacy more than any big achievement. When you reflect on your actions, you can make sure that your leadership style reflects your values. Michelle: Okay, Alex, but reflection is all about the past. How does a leader balance that with the need to constantly move forward? I mean, it's tough to picture a CEO taking time to ponder his "legacy" during a budget crisis. Alex: Well, it’s about making reflection a habit, not just something you do when you have free time, which is never! The book suggests things like journaling or quarterly self-check-ins. Asking yourself questions like, "Did my decisions this week contribute to our overall mission?" or "Did I help anyone grow this month?" Those questions can help you evaluate your impact without grinding everything to a halt. Michelle: Alright, so reflection keeps you grounded. Let's talk about mentoring, which feels more proactive. How does mentoring fit into building a legacy? Alex: Because mentoring is about more than just passing on skills, it’s about empowering people. It enables you to leave behind more than just projects. You leave behind people who grow because of your guidance. The book shares a stories about how one construction manager gave a young, relatively inexperienced team member the lead on a critical safety initiative. The team member was hesitant at first, but with mentorship, not only did the initiative succeed, but the team member gained the confidence to become a future leader. Michelle: Mentoring isn't just handing out advice; it's about creating opportunities for people to stretch themselves. Sounds good, but a bit risky too, right? What if the team member had failed? Wouldn't that reflect badly on the manager? Alex: Definitely, Michelle. That’s why mentorship requires courage from both sides. But when it’s done well—with the right resources, training, and without micromanaging—the payoff is huge. The mentee’s growth actually becomes part of the mentor’s legacy. By building the next generation of leaders, you create a ripple effect that lasts far beyond your own time. Michelle: I like that ripple effect idea. Let's complicate it, though. What if the mentee starts strong but then plateaus? Or worse, what if they succeed, but take those skills and leave the company? Alex: Those are valid concerns, but the book encourages leaders to have an abundance mindset. It's not about holding onto people, it's about helping them grow. They might stay and boost your team's success, or they might leave and make a difference somewhere else. Either way, your investment in their development is still part of your legacy. Michelle: Okay, fair point. And I see how mentoring connects to this idea of continuous improvement. But how do leaders actually make that happen on a company-wide level, not just with individuals? Alex: That's where building a culture of continuous improvement comes in. Leaders need to weave growth into the very fabric of their teams, by encouraging curiosity, experimentation, and learning from mistakes. One thing the book highlights is setting “Gulp Goals.” Michelle: "Gulp Goals?" That sounds terrifying! Are we talking about tasks that make you break out in a cold sweat just reading the description? Alex: Something like that! A Gulp Goal is a really ambitious challenge that pushes someone beyond their comfort zone. For example, imagine someone who's always worked behind the scenes being asked to present data to senior executives. Sure, it's nerve-wracking, but with the right support, it's an incredible chance to grow. Michelle: Right, so Gulp Goals keep things exciting for high-potential employees. But what about when people inevitably fail? I mean, how does having these super ambitious goals fit with the need for consistent results? Alex: That’s where a feedback-rich environment comes in. It normalizes the concept of learning from mistakes. Leaders can use frameworks like BEER—Behavior, Effect, Expectation, Result—to turn every slip-up into a lesson. By giving very specific, constructive feedback instead of just punishing mistakes, you create an environment where effort and growth are encouraged. Michelle: So, instead of punishing failure, leaders treat it as data to improve. Got it. But what about the leaders themselves? How do they keep learning while juggling everything else? Alex: The best leaders make their own learning a priority, right alongside their team’s development. Whether it’s going to workshops, finding mentors, or reading insights from different fields, they show that learning doesn’t stop once you reach a certain position. Michelle: I see a theme here. Reflection, mentoring, continuous improvement, and modeling learning—it all boils down to leaving a legacy that inspires others to do the same, doesn’t it?

Alex: So, Michelle, we’ve really been through it today, haven't we? From self-awareness as the starting point, to building trust and psychological safety, empowering our teams, getting results with accountability, and finally, thinking about the legacy we want to leave. It’s pretty obvious that good leadership isn't about overnight success, it's about building something that lasts, something real, something that’s been carefully grown. Michelle: Absolutely, Alex. The thing that really hit home for me is that leadership isn’t just about what you get done, but how you get it done. Whether it’s building trust by showing vulnerability, empowering teams with those Gulp Goals, or mentoring the next generation, it all comes down to the impact you have—on individuals, on the culture, and on the overall purpose. And that impact, like the book points out, is really how a leader makes their mark. Alex: Exactly. So here’s a little challenge for our listeners: pick just one thing we talked about today and think about how you can start using it right now. Maybe it’s just taking a moment to check in with yourself, or really listening to someone to build trust. Remember, big changes usually start with small, deliberate actions. Michelle: That's right. Leadership isn’t some giant leap; it’s a bunch of small steps that create lasting change. So, take that first step, whatever it is—a Gulp Goal, a tough conversation, or just some quiet time to think. Because in the end, leadership isn’t just something you do—it’s someone you become. Alex: Exactly, Michelle. And on that note, I guess it’s time to wrap up. Thanks for tuning in, everyone. Let’s keep leading, two words at a time. Michelle: Until our next conversation, keep that curiosity alive and keep being bold.