Olivia: I'm going to give you two numbers, Jackson. Seven minutes, and seven hours. Jackson: Okay, this feels like a riddle. Hit me. Olivia: Seven minutes is the average time an American kid spends in unstructured outdoor play each day. Jackson: Seven minutes? That's less time than it takes to make a sandwich. That can't be right. Olivia: It is. And the second number? Seven hours. That's the average time they spend staring at screens. That staggering gap, that chasm between the natural world and the digital one, is creating a crisis we barely notice. And it's at the heart of the book we're diving into today: How to Raise a Wild Child by Scott D. Sampson. Jackson: Wow. Okay, those numbers are genuinely shocking. And this author, Scott Sampson, he’s not your typical parenting guru, is he? Olivia: Not at all. And that’s what makes his perspective so powerful. He’s a renowned dinosaur paleontologist. Many people might actually know him as "Dr. Scott" from the popular PBS KIDS series Dinosaur Train. He had this dream career, discovering new dinosaur species, but he became so concerned about this disconnect between kids and nature that he made a major career shift to tackle this problem head-on. Jackson: So a paleontologist, someone who studies the deep past, is sounding the alarm about our children's future. That’s a compelling setup. Olivia: Exactly. He argues this isn't just about kids missing out on fresh air. He calls it the "extinction of experience." It’s a profound loss of connection that has deep, measurable consequences.

Jackson: "Extinction of experience." That's a heavy phrase. It sounds so final. What does he mean by that? Olivia: He illustrates it perfectly with a story from his own childhood. He was about four or five, and his mom took him to a local forest to see a "frog pond." He gets there and is just mesmerized by thousands of tadpoles wriggling in the water. He wades in, his little rubber boots filling with water, and just keeps going until he's waist-deep, completely surrounded by this squirming, vibrant life. Jackson: I can picture that so clearly. The feeling of the cold water, the mud between your toes... it feels like something from a different century. Olivia: It does! And he describes it as this moment of pure, ecstatic oneness with nature. It wasn't planned, it wasn't a formal lesson. It was just messy, immersive, and utterly formative. That's the kind of experience that’s going extinct. We've traded those moments for curated, sanitized, and often digital, alternatives. Jackson: Okay, so kids are missing out on these magical, muddy moments. I get that, and it's a shame. But what's the actual, measurable harm here? Is it really a crisis, or just a bit of nostalgia for a bygone era? Olivia: That's the critical question, and Sampson’s answer is a resounding yes, it’s a crisis. He connects this "extinction" to very real, very modern health problems. The book cites the skyrocketing rates of childhood obesity, which have nearly tripled since 1980. It points to the rise in ADHD diagnoses and the millions of kids on medication for it. He argues that our bodies and brains evolved for a life deeply embedded in nature, and when we remove that, things start to go wrong. Jackson: So it's not just about feelings, it's about physiology. Our biology is expecting a certain input from the natural world that it's just not getting anymore. Olivia: Precisely. He quotes the anthropologist Gregory Bateson, who said, "The major problems in the world are the result of the difference between how nature works and the way people think." Our thinking has become disconnected. We see nature as a place to visit, a resource to use, or a backdrop for a selfie. We've forgotten that, as another quote in the book says, "Nature is not a place to visit. It is home." Jackson: That idea of nature as "home" feels so foreign now. I mean, for most of human history, we were acutely aware of being part of the food chain. Sampson talks about this, right? The awareness of being "meat." Olivia: He does! He quotes David Quammen, who wrote that one of the earliest forms of human self-awareness was "the awareness of being meat." We lived with grizzlies, with saber-toothed cats. Now, the most dangerous animal most kids will encounter is a mosquito. We've sanitized our world so much that we've lost that primal, respectful, and sometimes fearful connection. Jackson: And in its place, we have this belief that technology can solve everything. I remember a story in the book where Sampson is at a fundraiser, and some tech bigwig basically tells him that nature is a thing of the past, that we're transitioning to man-made environments. Olivia: Yes, and that mindset is terrifyingly common. It's the ultimate illusion of separateness. It ignores that our technology, our cities, our very bodies are built from and dependent on the materials and systems of the natural world. We are nature. And raising a "wild child" is about helping them remember that fundamental truth.

Jackson: This all sounds a bit overwhelming for a parent, though. I don't know the names of most trees or birds in my own neighborhood. How am I supposed to fix this massive societal problem for my kids? Do I need to become a botanist overnight? Olivia: That's the genius of Sampson's approach. He says you absolutely do not need to be an expert. In fact, being an expert can sometimes get in the way. What you need to be is a "nature mentor." And his model for this is beautifully simple and empowering. Jackson: A nature mentor. Okay, I'm listening. What does that involve? Olivia: He breaks it down into a framework he calls EMU: Experience, Mentoring, and Understanding. The foundation is Experience—just getting kids out there for unstructured time in nature. But the M, Mentoring, is the real secret sauce. And it’s not what you think. Jackson: I'm picturing a wise old guide pointing at things and saying, "That, my child, is a Northern Flicker." Olivia: And that’s exactly what Sampson advises against. He says the most effective mentors limit their role as a "Teacher" and instead embrace the roles of "Questioner" and, my favorite, "Trickster." He calls it being a "Coyote Mentor." Jackson: A trickster? That sounds... manipulative. Are we supposed to be tricking our kids into liking nature? Olivia: It’s not about manipulation, it’s about sparking curiosity. A Coyote Mentor guides from behind. They don't lead the hike; they follow the child's interest. They don't give answers; they ask questions that lead the child to their own discoveries. He tells a wonderful story about being on a walk with his daughter, Jade, when she was young. She spots a tall, motionless bird and asks what it is. Jackson: And he tells her it's a Great Blue Heron, right? Olivia: Nope. He turns the question back on her. "What do you think it is? What do you notice about it?" They sit and watch. He asks about its long beak, what it might be doing. And then, the heron does this slow-motion head bow and snags a small mammal. It's this incredible, dramatic moment. Then, they go home and look it up in a bird book, and Jade discovers for herself that it was a Great Blue Heron. She owns that discovery. It's her story. Jackson: I can see how that would be way more powerful. She'll remember the hunting heron forever, not just a name her dad told her. But what about safety? The book has received some criticism for being a bit idealistic about letting kids roam free. How do you balance being a Coyote Mentor with the real-world fears parents have? Olivia: That's a fair point, and Sampson addresses it with a concept he calls "hummingbird parenting." It's the antidote to helicopter parenting. A hummingbird parent doesn't hover directly overhead, micromanaging every move. They stay at a distance, letting the child explore and problem-solve, but they're ready to zoom in if a real safety issue arises. Jackson: So you're not abandoning them in the wilderness. You're just giving them a longer leash in a safe-enough environment. Olivia: Exactly. And the key is nearby nature. This isn't about epic trips to national parks, though those are great. This is about the backyard, the local park, the creek at the end of the street. It's about what author Robert Michael Pyle calls "the ditch"—the humble, forgotten places where real connection happens. It's about empowering kids to build forts, get muddy, and have their own frog pond adventures, even in the city.

Olivia: And this idea of transforming nearby nature isn't just about one family or one backyard. Sampson scales it up into a hopeful, inspiring vision for our entire society. Jackson: This is where he gets into "rewilding," right? Which, I have to admit, sounds a little like a fantasy. Are we talking about releasing wolves in downtown Denver? Olivia: [Laughs] Not quite. He uses the term in two ways. One is the large-scale ecological restoration, but the other, more accessible way, is about rewilding our cities and our minds. It starts with something as simple as planting native plants in your yard. Native plants attract native insects, which attract native birds. Suddenly, your suburban backyard is a functioning part of a larger ecosystem. Jackson: So you're creating a little pocket of wildness that ripples outward. Olivia: Precisely. And he argues we need to shift our entire goal from "sustainability" to "thrivability." He asks, "Who would want, simply, a ‘sustainable’ marriage?" Sustainability implies just holding on, maintaining a degraded status quo. Thrivability is about creating a future where both humans and nature flourish together. It’s a much more inspiring vision. Jackson: It's a powerful antidote to all the doom-and-gloom we hear about the environment. It feels like that beautiful, futuristic story he tells in the epilogue, about the conservationist Gabriela looking back on her life. Olivia: It is! And that vision is so important because of a concept he discusses called "environmental generational amnesia." Jackson: What's that? Olivia: It’s the idea that each generation accepts the degraded environment of their childhood as the normal baseline. A kid growing up in a polluted city might not even register it as polluted, because it's all they've ever known. They've lost the memory of what a clean river or a sky full of birds looks like. Jackson: So we don't even know what we're missing. We're adapting to a lower and lower standard of what's natural. Olivia: Exactly. And rewilding is the cure for that amnesia. It’s about actively remembering what our ecosystems used to be and co-creating a future that brings that richness back. He highlights amazing real-world examples, like the "Homegrown National Park" project in Toronto, where they are crowdsourcing a green corridor through the city, transforming backyards and public spaces with things like guerilla gardening and moss graffiti. Jackson: That's incredible. It reframes the city not as the enemy of nature, but as the primary arena for its comeback. Olivia: Yes! Because cities are where most people live. They are the focal point. By rewilding our cities, we rewild ourselves. We create healthier, more connected, and more resilient communities.

Olivia: Ultimately, Sampson's message is that reconnecting with nature isn't a luxury; it's a fundamental human need. The solution isn't some grand, top-down policy that will magically fix everything. It's a quiet revolution that starts with one child, one mentor, and one backyard. Jackson: It’s a revolution of small, intentional acts. And it feels so much more achievable that way. It’s not about guilt or fear; it’s about joy and wonder. Olivia: It is. It’s about rolling up our sleeves and remembering that, as the poet Gary Snyder said, we need to "find our place on the planet, dig in, and take responsibility from there." It’s about taking ownership of our small patch of the world. Jackson: So the takeaway for someone listening isn't to go out and become a wilderness expert overnight. It's to just start. Take a walk without a destination. Ask your kid what they see. Maybe find a "sit spot" in the backyard and just watch what happens for five minutes. Olivia: Exactly. It's about cultivating that "lantern consciousness" he talks about—that wide-open, curious awareness. And we'd love to hear from our listeners. What's one small 'rewilding' act you could do this week? Plant a native flower? Visit a local park you've never been to? Let us know on our social channels. We're always curious to see how these ideas land in the real world. Jackson: It’s a hopeful message. It’s not about saving a planet that’s "out there." It’s about healing our relationship with the world that’s right here, right under our feet. Olivia: This is Aibrary, signing off.