Mark: Michelle, scientists say the average human attention span is now just nine seconds. Do you know what else has a nine-second attention span? Michelle: Oh, no. Please don't say a goldfish. Mark: A goldfish. We are, professionally and personally, in a constant battle for attention with a goldfish. And that is the exact battleground where today's book lives. Michelle: That is both hilarious and deeply terrifying. What a way to start. Mark: It really is. Today we’re diving into How to Fascinate by Sally Hogshead. Michelle: And she is the perfect person to write this, right? This isn't some abstract theorist. Sally Hogshead was a rockstar advertising copywriter, one of the most awarded in the U.S. by the time she was in her 20s. She's basically taking the science of making brands like Nike and Coca-Cola irresistible and turning that powerful lens on us, on individuals. Mark: Exactly. She’s asking, what if you applied the principles of a multi-million dollar branding campaign to your own personality? The results, she argues, are game-changing. It all starts with a fundamental, and frankly, counterintuitive idea about how to stand out.

Michelle: Okay, I’m hooked. Because my default programming, and I think most people’s, is that to succeed, you just have to be better. Work harder, be smarter, be more productive. Mark: And Hogshead says that in today's world, "better" is a trap. It's a mirage. She argues we face three deadly threats to being heard. The first is Distraction, which we just covered with our goldfish friend. The second is Competition—there are more people than ever doing what you do. And the third, and maybe the most dangerous, is Commoditization. Michelle: Commoditization. That’s when you become interchangeable, right? Like a grain of rice in a giant bag. You’re just like everyone else, so the only thing you can compete on is price. Mark: Precisely. You become a generic replica. And to illustrate how devastating this is, Hogshead shares one of the most powerful real-world experiments I’ve ever read about. It involves one of the world's greatest violinists, Joshua Bell. Michelle: I think I've heard about this. It’s incredible. Mark: It’s absolutely stunning. So, for a Washington Post article, Joshua Bell, a man who sells out concert halls where the cheap seats go for a hundred dollars, agreed to play in a subway station in Washington D.C. during the morning rush hour. He wasn't dressed as a slob; he was in a t-shirt and a baseball cap. And he wasn't playing a cheap fiddle. He was playing his handcrafted, 300-year-old Stradivarius violin, which is worth over three and a half million dollars. Michelle: So you have a musical genius, playing one of the finest instruments ever made, performing some of the most complex and beautiful music ever written, for free, in a public space. Mark: For 45 minutes. During that time, over a thousand people walked by him. And Michelle, how many do you think stopped to listen? Michelle: Oh, I'm afraid to guess. Maybe a hundred? Fifty? Mark: Seven. Only seven people actually stopped and stayed for a bit. He collected a total of $32.17 from a handful of passersby. The most profound moment was that every single time a child walked by, they would try to stop and listen, and every single time, their parent would grab their hand and hurry them along. Michelle: That is just crushing. It’s a perfect, heartbreaking metaphor for modern life. We’re so busy, so distracted, that we literally walk past world-class beauty and genius without even noticing. Mark: And that’s Hogshead’s entire point. Unrecognized greatness achieves nothing. It doesn't matter how talented you are, how smart you are, or how hard you work if no one is paying attention. This is why she says the goal isn't to be 'better.' Joshua Bell was already the best. The goal is to be 'different.' Michelle: I can see how that would be a controversial take. The book did get some polarizing reviews, with some people feeling it was a bit shallow. But this idea, that differentiation trumps raw skill in a crowded market, feels undeniably true. You can be the best accountant in the world, but if you're just one of a thousand in your city, how does anyone find you? Mark: Exactly. You have to find a way to cut through the noise. You have to fascinate. And that leads to her next big idea: how, exactly, do you do that?

Michelle: Okay, so if it's about being 'different,' how do you figure out what your difference is? This is where it starts to sound like just another personality test, Mark. Like a Myers-Briggs or a DISC assessment with a marketing gloss. Mark: That's the most common critique, and it's a fair one to raise. Hogshead is very clear that this is not a psychological profile. A psychology test tells you how you see the world. Her system is designed to tell you how the world sees you. It's a branding assessment for your personality. Michelle: A branding assessment... I like that framing. It feels more active, more strategic. Mark: It is. She identifies seven different ways we communicate and fascinate, which she calls "Advantages." Think of them less as personality types and more as different "languages" of communication. There's Power, which is the language of confidence. There's Passion, the language of relationship. Mystique, the language of listening. Prestige, the language of excellence. Alert, the language of details. Innovation, the language of creativity. And Trust, the language of stability. Michelle: That's a lot to remember. Can you make it more concrete? How do these 'languages' actually show up? Mark: I can do better. The book has this fantastic, simple example that makes it all click. Imagine you're trying to persuade a kid to eat their broccoli. How would each Advantage handle it? Michelle: Oh, I love this. Okay, lay it on me. Mark: The Power Advantage would use the language of command: "Eat your broccoli. Now." Direct, authoritative, no-nonsense. Michelle: I've definitely tried that one. Mixed results. Mark: The Passion Advantage would use the language of relationship. They'd make it an experience. They'd make a little smiley face on the broccoli with some cheese sauce. They connect emotionally. Michelle: Cute. I like that. What's next? Mark: The Mystique Advantage uses the language of listening and curiosity. They'd say, "I have a secret game we can play... but I'm not telling you what it is until you finish your broccoli." It creates intrigue. Michelle: Ooh, that's clever. I'm taking notes for dinner tonight. Mark: The Prestige Advantage uses the language of excellence and status. They'd spark competition: "Alright, who's going to be the broccoli-eating champion of the night?" Michelle: Pitting the siblings against each other. A classic. Mark: Then there's the Alert Advantage, the language of details and consequences. They'd be very clear: "The rule is, if you don't eat your broccoli, you don't get dessert." Michelle: The cold, hard truth. I respect it. Mark: The Innovation Advantage speaks the language of creativity and surprise. They'd say, "No problem, don't eat the broccoli. Brussels sprouts for everybody!" Michelle: (Laughs) Okay, that's brilliant! That is 100% my parenting style. The threat of a worse alternative. I feel so seen right now. Mark: And finally, the Trust Advantage uses the language of stability and routine. They'd say, "You know how we always read your favorite story after dinner? We'll do that as soon as you eat your broccoli." It relies on dependability. Michelle: Wow. That broccoli example is perfect. It takes this abstract list of seven words and makes them completely tangible. You can immediately see which ones you lean on. It's not about being a "Power Person," it's about which language you speak most fluently. Mark: Exactly. And Hogshead's research, which involved over a million people, shows that we all have a primary and a secondary Advantage. And that specific combination is what creates your unique communication style, or what she calls your Archetype.

Mark: And once you know your primary and secondary 'languages,' Hogshead gives you a tool to distill it all down into a personal tagline she calls an 'Anthem.' Michelle: An Anthem. That sounds a bit grand. Like I need my own walk-up music. Mark: It does, but the concept is incredibly simple and powerful. It's a two-to-three-word phrase that summarizes your highest, most distinct value. The formula is: one Adjective that describes how you're different, and one Noun that describes what you do best. Michelle: Okay, an adjective and a noun. Give me an example. Mark: The book tells the story of two financial advisors, Andy and Simon, competing for the same high-value clients, a couple named the Martins. Both advisors have similar experience, similar services, similar fees. On paper, they are commodities. Michelle: The dreaded commoditization we talked about earlier. Mark: Exactly. Simon, the first advisor, gives a standard, generic presentation. He talks about his firm, shows them brochures, and follows a script. The Martins are polite, but they're disengaged. Their minds are wandering. Michelle: We've all been in that meeting. You're just thinking about your grocery list. Mark: Then they meet Andy. Andy's Archetype is 'The Royal Guard,' which is a mix of Prestige and Mystique. His Anthem, the core of his approach, is "Astute Questions." So instead of talking at them, he spends the entire meeting asking incredibly insightful, carefully considered questions. He listens. He makes them think about their future in ways they hadn't before. He doesn't sell them anything; he helps them discover what they truly want. Michelle: And of course, they hired Andy. Mark: Instantly. Because he didn't just offer a service; he delivered his distinct value right there in the meeting. His Anthem, "Astute Questions," wasn't just a tagline; it was a promise, and he delivered on it. Simon was just another financial advisor. Andy was the one who provided clarity. Michelle: That story really lands the point. But this is also where the book gets a bit polarizing for some readers. They praise the practicality, but some critics feel it's about turning yourself into a corporate slogan, that it's a bit of 'psychobabble' designed to sell you consulting. Mark: It's a valid concern. The idea of having a personal tagline can feel inauthentic if you think of it as a mask you put on. But Hogshead's argument, coming from her advertising background, is that in a nine-second world, clarity is kindness. Your Anthem isn't a fake persona. It's a shortcut to your real value. It's for the benefit of the other person, so they don't have to spend 45 minutes figuring you out. Michelle: That's a much better way to look at it. It's not a slogan you're selling; it's a beacon you're lighting up so the right people can find you. It’s about being intentionally, purposefully yourself. Mark: Precisely. It’s about taking what makes you different and making it impossible to ignore.

Michelle: So, when you boil it all down, what's the big, lasting idea here? Is the message that we should all just think of ourselves as products to be marketed? Mark: I think the deeper message is a powerful reframe of what self-awareness means. For decades, we've been told self-awareness is an internal journey: "Who am I? What do I want?" Hogshead argues that's only half the equation. The other, more critical half is external: "How does the world see me? How do I come across?" Michelle: Because your intentions don't matter if your impact is zero. Like Joshua Bell in the subway. His intention was to share beautiful music, but his impact was minimal because the context was wrong. Mark: Exactly. The book's core philosophy is that your personality isn't just a set of static traits. It's your most powerful communication tool. And the goal isn't to change who you are to fit in. The goal is to become more of who you already are, but to do it on purpose, with clarity and intention. Michelle: That's a really hopeful and empowering way to look at it. It’s not about fixing your flaws, but amplifying your distinct strengths. It makes you wonder... what two or three words would best describe your unique value? Mark: It's a fantastic question to ponder. And we'd genuinely love to hear from our listeners on this. After hearing this, what do you think your Anthem might be? Find us on our social channels and let us know. We're always fascinated to see how these ideas land. Michelle: A great challenge for the week. Mark: This is Aibrary, signing off.