Autumn: Hey everyone, welcome to the show! Ever set a goal – maybe to eat better, hit the gym more, or finally tackle that passion project – and then... just stayed stuck in the same old rut? You're definitely not alone. Changing habits is tough! But what if science could actually show us how to make it easier? Rachel: A roadmap, you say? Please tell me this isn't another one of those "think positive and manifest your destiny" kind of things. Autumn: Not at all, Rachel. Today, we’re diving into Katy Milkman’s How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be. It's all about strategies, backed by research, to help us get over the hurdles we all face – things like putting things off, forgetting, even just not feeling confident enough. Milkman uses psychology, plus real-world examples and case studies, to show us how to customize these strategies, so they work for “us”. Rachel: Customize, huh? Sounds like no "one-size-fits-all" solution here. I like that. Makes it feel less like a lecture and more like a tool kit. Autumn: Exactly. And the book basically gives us the tools to see challenges not as brick walls, but as chances to learn and grow. Rachel: Alright, I'm listening. Acknowledging the obstacles is one thing, but are we going to talk about how we actually bulldoze through them? Autumn: Absolutely! In this episode, we’re breaking down three big ideas from the book. First, we're looking at those hidden roadblocks, like procrastination, and how to outsmart them. Then, we're going to explore the power of "fresh starts" and timing—think of them as the ultimate "reset" buttons for your motivation. And finally, we’ll unlock the impact of social influence—how the people around us can either lift us higher or, well, kind of drag us down. Rachel: So, diagnose the problem, hit the reset button at the right moment, and then make sure your environment—your friends, family, even your office setup—is actually helping you out. Got it. So it’s like figuring out not just what’s holding you back but how to clear a path forward. Autumn: Nailed it. By the end of this, you’ll have a much better idea of how to make real, lasting changes. Ready to jump in? Rachel: Let’s do it. But since we're tackling procrastination first, I suddenly feel the urge to, uh, make a cup of coffee... maybe watch a quick YouTube video first...

Autumn: Okay, Rachel, let’s dive right into procrastination, shall we? It’s a huge roadblock for anyone trying to change. And you know what’s surprising? It’s not just laziness; it’s this thing called “present bias.” We’re wired to want immediate rewards over future benefits, even when it doesn't make sense. Rachel: So we're basically pre-programmed to choose scrolling through Instagram over, say, working on that important project? I can relate. But how do we actually beat this bias? Autumn: That's where “commitment devices” come in. Let's start with Dan Ariely’s study at MIT. He let students choose to set their own deadlines, stick to a structured schedule with penalties for late work, or have total freedom on when to submit assignments. Now, wouldn’t you think everyone would want that total freedom? Rachel: Totally. Who doesn't want maximum flexibility? Let me guess, though: those free spirits crashed and burned? Autumn: Precisely! The students with structured deadlines and penalties actually did way better than the ones with complete flexibility. They understood, consciously or not, that they needed that structure to avoid procrastination. Rachel: Wait, students chose penalties? Voluntary pain... that's a tough one to wrap my head around. Autumn: It is fascinating. By setting those limits, they created these external safety nets to protect themselves from their own bad habits. It’s not just about school, either. Look at Green Bank in the Philippines, where they offered “locked savings accounts.” You couldn’t withdraw money until you hit a specific savings goal. Rachel: Locking up my own money sounds like a recipe for panic attacks, but okay… Autumn: Well, it really worked! People using those accounts saved 80% more than those who didn't. It’s a simple, powerful trick to prioritize long-term goals – education, emergencies – over those tempting impulse buys. Rachel: So people are essentially begging the bank to hold their willpower hostage. Seems a bit extreme, but also kind of brilliant. Key takeaway? Autumn: Structure isn't restrictive; it's freeing. It can free you from the chaos of your own impulses. It's about building supports so you can actually focus on what’s important. Rachel: External discipline – I like that. But what happens when the real issue isn’t a lack of structure but just, y'know, a constant craving for something new and shiny? Let's talk about impulsivity. Autumn: Impulsivity – another big challenge! It's still connected to that present bias – wanting rewards right now. But Katy Milkman highlights two good tools: temptation bundling and gamification. Rachel: Temptation bundling... Is that like saying, “I deserve a triple-fudge brownie after I run a mile”? Autumn: Not quite. It’s more about combining something you enjoy with something you need to do but don't enjoy. Instead of waiting for the treat afterward, you do it at the same time. Think about someone who only lets themselves listen to their favorite podcast while they’re at the gym. Workout and enjoy the story at the same thing. Rachel: That’s pretty smart. Motivation on autopilot, if you set it up right. And gamification? Are we talking about fitness apps with badges and leaderboards here - fancy tech tricks? Autumn: Not just. Gamification taps into our basic desire for competition and achievement. Take Nancy Strahl, a stroke patient in a clinical trial. Instead of boring exercises, she used a game called “Recovery Rapids.” It turned her rehab into a virtual race, changing boring therapy into something fun and engaging. Rachel: That's actually kind of awesome. The game wasn’t just a distraction; it was part of her rehab. Autumn: Exactly. And it wasn’t just about fun – gamification kept her engaged because it made even small improvements feel rewarding, visible, and immediate. Rachel: So, temptation bundling is about hacking your routine, and gamification turns the grind into a quest. It sounds like both tactics are combating impulsivity by creating these what I might call micro-rewards. Autumn: Exactly! They leverage what our brains crave – instant gratification – but redirect it to worthwhile goals. Rachel: All right, I'm starting to see this. Let's switch gears. What if the problem isn't temptation or instant gratification, but just plain old forgetfulness? Like, “I meant to do that thing, but, oops, it totally slipped my mind.” Autumn: Forgetfulness is a common hurdle. We can only keep so many things in mind at once. What Katy Milkman suggests is using cue-based planning and, of course, vivid reminders. They sound simple, but they’re surprisingly effective. Rachel: Okay, walk me through cue-based planning. Autumn: It’s about connecting what you want to do to something that already happens regularly. Let's say you want to write every day. Instead of just hoping you'll remember, you link it to something concrete, like, “After I make coffee, I’ll write for 30 minutes.” There’s research to back this up, too. In fact, students who tied their goals to cues – “after breakfast,” for example – had a 62% success rate. Those who didn’t? Only 22%. Rachel: So it’s about engineering routines. There’s the trigger, a response, and—hopefully—you build a habit. Autumn: Exactly. Another helpful point is making reminders really noticeable. A study showed you could increase coupon redemptions by posting a stuffed alien near the cash register. The alien was an unusual, effective reminder – redemption rates skyrocketed. Rachel: That's… hilariously strange, but I get it. A stuffed alien is harder to miss than a generic phone notification. Autumn: It’s about making your goals unmissable in a sea of distractions. Whether it’s vivid markers or anchored actions, these tools help keep your intentions front and center. Rachel: Okay, so we’ve covered procrastination, impulsivity, and forgetfulness. But what if the obstacle isn’t a behavioral issue but something deeper – a lack of confidence? Autumn: That's so crucial. A lack of confidence can totally derail progress. Milkman suggests something counterintuitive: instead of seeking advice, people should give advice. It builds upon this concept called the “saying-is-believing effect.” Rachel: Wait, you're saying the cure for low confidence is to have people play armchair psychologist? Isn’t that like asking me for cooking advice? Autumn: I know it sounds odd, but it works. Lauren Eskreis-Winkler ran a study with high school students. Instead of giving them advice on studying, she had them share their own strategies for avoiding procrastination. Sharing strategies not only boosted their confidence but also improved their grades. Rachel: So by positioning them as the expert, they begin to actually believe in their ability. Autumn: Exactly. Take Mike Mangini, the drummer for Dream Theater. He was torn between pursuing music full-time and keeping his stable job as a software engineer. As he started mentoring young drummers, their respect reflected his own latent potential back to him. That confidence helped him commit to his dream. Rachel: So giving advice becomes this two-way thing – you help someone else, but you also boost your own self-belief. It's kind of like how teaching something forces you to understand it better. Autumn: Exactly. It creates this reinforcing loop: by articulating your strengths and strategies for others, you start to believe that those things really apply to you.

Autumn: So, understanding what holds us back naturally leads to exploring how timing and fresh starts can actually drive change. This next part builds on everything we've talked about – procrastination, impulsivity, forgetfulness – by adding the element of “time”. Basically, it's about how certain moments, big or small, can motivate us to reset our habits and really go after our goals. Rachel: Right, so we’ve been dissecting what messes us up, and now we’re asking: when’s the ideal time to tackle those issues? Timing is key, isn't it? Autumn: Absolutely! And that's where Katy Milkman's "Fresh Start Effect" comes in. The idea is that important moments – New Year’s, birthdays, even a new job or moving – act like a mental clean slate. They help us separate our past selves, with all the stumbles, from the future self we aspire to be. Rachel: So you're saying our brains are easily tricked by a good relaunch? Ditch the old baggage, bring on the shiny new version of ourselves, huh. Autumn: Exactly! And there’s real research behind this. Milestones like the start of a week, month, or year create a "blank slate" effect, encouraging us to reflect and refocus. And get this: Google searches for things like "how to lose weight" or "start saving" actually peak during these fresh start moments. Rachel: So come Monday morning or January 1st, half the world's Googling their resolutions! But why do these moments work so well, Autumn? What's the magic ingredient? Autumn: It's all about the narrative. These landmarks help us psychologically close the chapter on past behaviors and see ourselves as capable of change. Think of it as an emotional reset button. You're stepping into a new identity where past failures don’t define you. Rachel: I get it. Let's try a real example. You mentioned moving. How does this fresh start affect someone's behavior besides just unpacking? Autumn: Great question! Moving naturally disrupts routines. Milkman points out how these disruptions create chances to rethink and change habits. People often think more about their commute, diet, even their social life when in a new environment. Rachel: Kinda like that London Underground strike Milkman mentions. People were forced to find new routes, and like 5% of them discovered better routes and actually kept using them after the strike. So, fresh starts can be unplanned, like that disruption. Autumn: Exactly! That experiment shows a critical point: even unwanted disruptions can spark positive change. People just need to approach them with curiosity and openness, instead of clinging to what they know for comfort. Rachel: Okay, I'm seeing this fresh start idea in action. But what about the downsides? I mean, what if a reset messes up routines that were already working? You know, like Milkman’s story about baseball players traded mid-season. Autumn: Perfect example. When players switch leagues, their stats get reset, giving them a fresh start feeling. For underperforming players, this usually helps, like wiping away a slump. But for players already doing well, the disruption can derail them. It’s a great example of how fresh starts can be a double-edged sword, right? Rachel: So fresh starts can be helpful, but messing with them at the wrong time – when things are going well – can screw things up. Like when your gym schedule gets interrupted. Suddenly your post-holiday “fresh start” turns into weeks of trying to get back on track. Autumn: Exactly. That’s why Milkman emphasizes strategic timing. For example, she studied university employees, encouraging them to save for retirement. Participants could start saving immediately or on a milestone date, like their birthday. Those choosing symbolic dates were much more likely to stick to their plan. Rachel: So the timing itself was a motivator. But can people create their own milestones if life doesn't naturally provide them? Not everyone's getting married or moving anytime soon, right? Autumn: Great question. Milkman argues that, absolutely, we can engineer fresh starts. It can be as simple as starting a diet at the start of the month, reorganizing your workspace to signal a professional reset, or starting a journal on a Monday. These small changes offer the same psychological benefits as the big life changes, like reframing and identity shifts. Rachel: I like that. It's empowering to know you don't have to wait for some huge event. But what about people who are burned out on fresh starts – like those who’ve been on the New Year's resolution rollercoaster a few too many times? Autumn: That's where breaking goals into smaller, more achievable milestones comes in. Instead of one big, intimidating goal, you can set quarterly or monthly objectives. This keeps the momentum going and avoids the all-or-nothing thinking that leads to discouragement. Rachel: Makes sense. It's like breaking a marathon into manageable segments – same finish line, just less daunting. Alright, Autumn, the takeaway is clear: fresh starts are powerful, but they’re not simple. It's about timing, intention, and knowing when to hit reset - and when not to.

Autumn: So, now that we've talked about timing, let's dive into the power of social influence in making changes stick. Honestly, I find this part fascinating because it really highlights how the people around us – not just our own willpower – can either help us reach our goals or, well, totally derail them. Rachel: Right, that old saying, "You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with," springs to mind. We’ve all heard these kinds of things before, but what’s the reality of using your social circle to change habits? Is it science or just hot air? Autumn: Well, Katy Milkman's book gets into the science behind it. She really digs into how things like what our friends are doing, what society expects, and even feeling responsible to others can change how we act. It takes changing habits from something we do alone to something we do together. Rachel: Okay, I’m intrigued, but this whole "peer influence" thing can sound a bit manipulative, can’t it? Is there a risk we're not just gently encouraging people but actually pushing them into something? Autumn: Exactly! That's the tricky part. When done well, social influence can feel really supportive. But if you’re not careful, it can definitely feel like you’re being forced into something. The key is to figure out how to use it in a way that's both effective and, you know, ethical. Think of the classic example—the hotel towel study. Rachel: Ah, I think this is the one where they ask people to reuse towels to save the planet? Seems like every hotel I stay in has some version of that eco-pitch. Autumn: Exactly, that’s the standard eco-friendly message. But researchers Noah Goldstein, Bob Cialdini, and Vladas Griskevicius tried a different approach. Instead of talking about the environment, they used a social norm: "75% of guests who stayed in this hotel reused their towels." Guess what? Towel reuse jumped by 18%! Rachel: so peer pressure works even on vacation. But "hotel guests" is a pretty broad group. Does it work even better if you make it more specific? Autumn: It does! They ran another experiment with an even more personalized message: "Most guests who stayed in this very room reused their towels." And that bumped up reuse rates to 33%. Rachel: Wow, okay, so the closer the comparison, the stronger the pressure. Instead of some random hotel guest, you’re thinking about the person who literally slept in your bed the night before. I guess there’s something powerful knowing that people similar to you are doing it. Autumn: Exactly! That's the key. Social norms are way more effective when they feel relevant to you. It’s not just some general encouragement; it’s, "Hey, people like you are already doing this." And the cool thing is, it's not just about towels. You can apply this to bigger things, like saving energy or recycling. Rachel: Hang on though. Couldn’t this backfire? I could see someone reading "75% of people reuse their towels" and thinking, "Great, someone else is saving the planet; I can use as many as I want!" Autumn: That's a great point. That’s why it’s so important how you present the information. You want to highlight behavior that encourages positive action. You don’t want people thinking that what they’re doing is insignificant. Milkman stresses that the message should inspire participation, not, like, make people feel they don’t need to bother – or worse, rebel and use more towels! Rachel: Got it. So, gentle, data-backed nudges can work in a big way. But let’s zoom into one-on-one relationships. What about learning by watching successful people? You know, that "copying and pasting" idea from the book? Autumn: Oh, I love that part! It’s all about finding someone who’s achieved what you want and figuring out what they do. But instead of just admiring them from afar, you actually copy and adapt their methods. The U.S. Air Force Academy is a great example. Rachel: The Air Force Academy, huh? Always good to get the military's take on behavioral science. What were they up to? Autumn: Researchers found that cadets who were surrounded by high-achieving classmates tended to do better themselves. But here’s the real kicker: the top performers weren’t just good examples; they became sources of practical tips. Cadets who were struggling deliberately asked for advice – you know, borrowing time-management tricks or study habits – saw much bigger improvements. It wasn't just being near smart people; it was making an effort to learn from them. Rachel: So, you can't just sit next to the A+ student and hope their brilliance rubs off. You’ve got to get their notes, ask them about their study habits, actively tap into their playbook. It's putting in the active work to learn how they got there. Autumn: Exactly! And this applies to so many things. Let's say you want to run a marathon. Being around other runners is great, but the real value comes from learning their training schedule, their hydration strategy, or even how they deal with mental fatigue. It’s about getting the tools that make success possible. Rachel: Okay, I get the appeal. But is it dangerous? What if the gap between you and your role model is just too wide? Could seeing their success actually discourage you? Autumn: Absolutely, especially if you feel like it’s impossible to reach their level. That’s where Milkman’s idea of balance comes in. Instead of focusing on someone who’s achieved huge success, focus on the small wins and practical steps. Think of it as learning from someone just a few steps ahead of you, not someone who’s already on top of Mount Everest. Rachel: That's a good point. So more about customizing influence - not just blindly copying someone who’s way ahead? But what about accountability? How does that fit in? Autumn: Oh, accountability is key! When you publicly commit to something, you're way more likely to follow through. Milkman gives examples like group fitness trackers or goal boards at work. When people know their progress is being watched, they tend to stick with it. Rachel: That makes sense – you don't want to be the one slacking off in front of everyone. But can that cross the line? I’m thinking about those retirement savings campaigns in the book that used peer comparisons, which didn’t work out so well. Autumn: Exactly! Those were well-intentioned, but they backfired. Employees were shown how much their coworkers were saving for retirement. But instead of feeling motivated, many of those who were saving less felt discouraged and just gave up. It was a classic case of social pressure backfiring. Rachel: So, instead of saying, "Look how much everyone else is saving," it might be better to celebrate the small steps people are taking. Like, "Your retirement contributions have increased by 10% this year!" Autumn: Totally. Highlighting progress, rather than differences, creates a sense of motivation. The goal is to create a shared sense of achievement and make sure that the pressure is positive, not punishing. Rachel: I like that – celebrating the journey, not just the destination. Alright, I think I know enough to make my social influence strategy a little more effective. What’s next?

Autumn: So, today we dove into Katy Milkman’s toolbox for tackling those common roadblocks, like procrastination, impulsivity, forgetfulness, and even that lack of confidence that trips us up. We talked about temptation bundling, gamification, using cues to plan, you know, and that interesting bit about how giving advice can actually boost your confidence. We also explored how timing matters with the Fresh Start Effect, and how our social circles can either lift us up or, well, throw us off course. Rachel: Yeah, absolutely. The thing that “really” grabbed me was how all these strategies come down to understanding why we do what we do. It's not about just powering through with willpower, because that never works, right? It’s about really working with our psychology, not fighting it. Whether it’s setting up some accountability, seeing failures as fresh starts, or, I don't know, learning from others' wins, these ideas are actually really practical and surprisingly easy to grasp when you break them down. Autumn: Exactly! It's not about demanding perfection from yourself, but about setting up systems and habits that make the whole process easier. So, here’s a little nudge for our listeners: Think about that one area in your life where you feel like you're spinning your wheels. Ask yourself, "Is it procrastination, impulsivity, forgetfulness, or maybe a confidence thing that’s holding me back?" Then, just pick one strategy we mentioned today and give it a shot. Even something as simple as pairing a chore with your favorite guilty pleasure or using the Fresh Start Effect for your next goal. Rachel: Exactly, baby steps! And hey, let's be real: this stuff takes time, and you're gonna stumble. It's okay to try different things and adjust them until they click. Because, if those success stories in Milkman’s book tell us anything, it’s that resilience isn’t about never messing up—it’s about learning from it and being smarter the next time around. Autumn: Totally. You've got the tools to actually turn these challenges into your opportunities. Behavioral science is there to light the way. So, until next time, keep trying things out, stay curious, and don’t be afraid to hit that reset button when you need to! Rachel: And hey, maybe... just maybe, reward yourself after you've worked towards your goals, instead of before. You know, Netflix is always there, right? Gotta find that balance. Autumn: Balance is key! Catch you next time!