Alex: Hey everyone, welcome back to the show! Today, we're tackling something fundamental: food. What we eat, where it comes from, and its huge impact on… well, everything! Michelle: Exactly, Alex. It's way more than just what's on your plate. It's about your health, your bank account, and even the environment. Ever wonder why a fizzy drink costs less than a decent salad? Or why our healthcare bills are through the roof thanks to our diets? That's what we're unpacking today. Alex: We're diving into Dr. Mark Hyman’s “Food Fix”. It’s a real eye-opener on the global food system. He really exposes how industrial agriculture is not only making us sick but also trashing the planet and widening the gap between the rich and poor. But look, it's not all doom and gloom; he also offers a hopeful vision for a healthier, greener, and more equitable future. Michelle: So, we’re going to break it down into three parts. First, we’ll look at how big business and some really questionable policies got us into this mess, health-wise and environmentally. Second, we'll talk about the enormous cost – both in dollars and environmental damage – of this broken system. And finally, we'll map out a way forward, from healthier soil to real solutions on the ground. Think of it as a rapid-fire guide to fixing our food, starting from the ground up. Alex: So, brace yourselves to really rethink what you're eating and how it affects the wider world. Let's jump in, shall we?

Alex: Okay, so let's dive right into the core of the matter—how our food system is inherently designed to put profits way, way ahead of both our health and the planet. Dr. Mark Hyman really paints a pretty stark picture of industrial agriculture. He emphasizes how government subsidies overwhelmingly favor things like corn and soy. Did you know that only about 2%—two percent!—of U.S. farmland is actually used for growing fruits and vegetables? I mean, isn’t that just… insane? Michelle: It really is! When you put it that way, Alex, it's almost darkly comical, you know? The system basically encourages monoculture crops simply because they’re dirt cheap to grow, they scale ridiculously easily, and they feed directly into this non-stop production cycle of ultra-processed junk food. The problem is, those processed foods aren't exactly what your doctor’s recommending on your 'eat more of' list. They're essentially base ingredients for things like soda, chips, and all those candy bars—things specifically designed to get us hooked while, you know, quietly harming our health for the sake of profit. It's almost like we're subsidizing a slow-motion health crisis. Alex: Precisely. And these effects ripple out so broadly. It's not just about distorting what's affordable and easily available. We're talking about a real public health crisis. Chronic diseases are linked to poor diets. Things like heart disease and type 2 diabetes cost the U.S. over a trillion dollars every year. But that's not just healthcare costs, is it? It's lost productivity, the burden of caregiving. This burden ends up disproportionately impacting lower-income families who are already struggling. Michelle: Exactly. That's it's hard to ignore the systemic injustices. Dr. Hyman really digs into how Big Food actively manipulates policy, so they stay on top. Corporations spend billions, Alex, lobbying to keep those subsidies flowing, blocking transparency laws, and fighting off any potential regulation. Take soda taxes, for instance. There's solid evidence that they work. Philadelphia is a prime example; sugary drink sales plummeted, and the revenue was used to fund programs like pre-K education. Still, the American Beverage Association threw everything, including the kitchen sink, at fighting those. They called them “regressive.” I mean, does anyone actually buy that argument? Alex: What's so twisted is the narrative where they spin it as "defending" low-income communities, when it's often the opposite. These are the communities actively bombarded with marketing for junk foods. Studies have demonstrated that Black teens see, like, 119% more junk food ads than their white peers. It's intentional—not benign advertising; it's predatory. Michelle: And the consequences are pretty glaring. I mean, diabetes rates are triple what they were among Native American kids in the last decade. The obesity rates within Black and Hispanic communities are skyrocketing. These are all traceable back to these systemic practices. The further you dig, the system prioritizes profit margins over people's lives! Dr. Hyman calls it "food apartheid," and it’s hard to disagree. Alex: Speaking of inequity, it goes way beyond just health. The environmental impact of industrial agriculture is equally, if not more, devastating. Subsidized monocultures obliterate biodiversity. They rely heavily on chemical fertilizers and pesticides. This creates runoff into rivers, polluting entire ecosystems and leading to "dead zones" in bodies of water like the Gulf of Mexico. Let's not forget soil degradation and widespread deforestation. Those directly contribute to climate change. Michelle: So it's like farming in a way that's actively hostile to the very land you depend on—it's completely unsustainable. And for what? To keep cranking out more high-fructose corn syrup and factory-farmed beef? About 70% of the planet's freshwater is drained by agriculture, mostly to grow crops for livestock feed or biofuel, instead of crops that could actually nourish people. It's almost as if our priorities are the exact opposite of where they should be. Alex: And we can't forget how Big Food actively undermines these sustainability measures. Dr. Hyman highlights how big agribusinesses lobby against climate-smart initiatives. From reducing deforestation for palm oil to regenerative practices. And regenerative agriculture could really be a game-changer! It rebuilds soil, stores carbon, and improves water retention. It tackles so many of the issues that industrial farming creates. And who supports it? Often, small-scale farmers operate on the fringes of this sprawling industrial complex. Michelle: It circles back to the core question: Why isn't this the norm? Why aren't healthier, sustainable food practices incentivized from the start? The answer, predictably, comes down to the lobbying's stronghold. Big Food corporations funnel billions into campaigns. They cozy up to policymakers and actively control the narrative. The government, as Dr. Hyman points out, is complicit. Look at SNAP. It aims to help low-income families, but most benefits are spent on processed, nutrient-poor foods because healthier options simply aren't readily available. It's a systemic, layered injustice. Alex: And the irony is just… it’s overwhelming, isn’t it? The same government that is telling you to “eat more fruits and vegetables” through campaigns like MyPlate is also subsidizing corn, soy, and wheat monocultures that fill fast food menus and Dollar Store shelves. No wonder people feel confused and frustrated! Michelle: Confused, frustrated, and, truthfully, feeling trapped. What is so compelling is people don't just view junk food as the cheapest choice, but often the only choice. You can’t “vote with your fork” when the odds are stacked against you from the start. Without systemic change, even the most passionate grassroots actions aren't really going to cut it. Alex: And that’s why it's essential to untangle these systemic issues. Policy shifts, industry transparency, supporting solutions like regenerative agriculture. It’s clear that the broken food system isn’t inevitable. And even though it's a daunting task, I feel hopeful because our choices got us here, and these choices can be reengineered for the better.

Alex: So, if we understand these systemic problems, we can see that fixing them needs big solutions that work at both a policy level and in our communities. Let's look at the results of these flaws – what Dr. Hyman calls the environmental and health impacts. Once we know how our food system is broken, the urgent need to fix it “really” becomes clear. The ripple effects, from climate change to soil loss to public health crises, are huge. Michelle: Exactly, Alex. We've talked about how subsidies, lobbying, and the focus on short-term profits got us here. Now we're talking about the fallout, which is where things get “really” serious. Let's start with the environmental damage because industrial agriculture is like a Swiss Army knife of destruction, causing greenhouse gas emissions, deforestation, and overuse of water, among other things. Alex: Right. Industrial agriculture accounts for about 13% to 20% of global greenhouse gas emissions. From monocultures taking over forests to livestock producing methane, the environmental cost is massive. Hyman uses the Amazon rainforest as a good example, where millions of hectares are deforested each year, often to grow soybeans. And those soybeans aren't for us, they're feeding livestock, which causes a chain reaction of destruction. The carbon stored in forests is released, animals lose their homes, and the land becomes more vulnerable to climate change. Michelle: And all that for a burger that's cheaper than a latte. That deforestation in the Amazon leads directly to industrial meat production, and meat has its own problems, like methane. Cattle farming emits methane, which is incredibly potent, like 25 times more damaging than carbon dioxide. Yeah, it's not just the forests; it's also the cows and all that manure. The climate math just doesn’t add up, does it Alex? Alex: No, it “really” doesn’t, Michelle. And it's not just the air; industrial farming is also using up our soil and water. Take soil health. Dr. Hyman points out how monoculture farming and synthetic fertilizers deplete the basis of agriculture. Healthy soil is alive, full of microbes and organic matter that absorb water and store carbon, but industrial techniques get rid of that, and we've already lost 50% to 70% of our topsoil globally. Scientists warn that if we don't do something, we'll run out of farmable soil in about 60 years. Michelle: Sixty years? That's a bit terrifying. It’s as if we're making our own ground disappear, and it's happening now. And there's also the water shortage. Agriculture uses 70% of the world's fresh water, often in practices that aren’t efficient. Almonds in California are a good example. They need a lot of water and are grown in a state that's always fighting droughts. I love almonds, but they’re draining the ground dry, aren’t they? Alex: And it's tragic how much of that water is wasted. Because of bad irrigation, a lot of it evaporates before it even reaches the crops. Then you have industrial dairy farms and big feedlots using a lot of water. California's Central Valley is a clear example. It’s a place that used to be great for farming, but now it's struggling with less and less groundwater and when aquifers dry up, it's not just the farms that suffer; it's also the local communities. Michelle: It all seems very shortsighted. We’re destroying forests, degrading soil, and using up water, almost like industrial agriculture is speeding up its own end. And along with all this environmental damage, there are also terrible health effects. Ultra-processed food, which is common in this system, causes more diet-related diseases, and Hyman is very clear about that. Alex: Exactly. Let's also talk about food and health. Processed foods make up about 60% of the average American diet, which is a statistic that should worry us. These foods have a lot of calories but not many nutrients, and they’re full of unhealthy fats, sugar, and salt. And therefore chronic diseases such as obesity, type 2 diabetes, and heart disease are becoming more common. For every 10% increase in processed food consumption, the risk of death increases by 14%. Michelle: Just let that sink in. You're literally eating your way to a preventable disease because this system makes it hard to get real, whole foods. And who suffers the most? Low-income communities where getting fresh produce isn't even possible half the time. Food deserts trap people into unhealthy diets on purpose, and the costs, both personally and economically, are huge. Obesity and diabetes alone cost the U.S. over $1.1 trillion each year. Alex: And that cost isn't shared equally. People of color, rural areas, and low-income groups bear the worst of it. They’re being marketed processed junk, they pay with their health, and then they’re blamed for making "bad choices," as if they had real options. It's a cruel cycle of separating people from good food, and it’s engineered scarcity and malnutrition disguised as accessibility. Michelle: And that injustice shows up with what we’re subsidizing. Soy, corn, and wheat are turned into cheap ingredients for processed foods or animal feed, not into the fruits and vegetables we need to fight these diseases. Dr. Hyman points out how silly it is that MyPlate, a government campaign that urges us to eat healthier but subsidies favor the exact opposite. It’s like saying "eat kale" but paying for Twinkies. Alex: It’s so frustrating. And the worst thing is, this isn’t just a poorly managed system; it's on purpose. Big Food companies spend billions of dollars on lobbying, blocking efforts to tax sugary drinks or require clear labeling. They use marketing, to get kids to craving junk food, and their profits grow while public health gets worse. Michelle: The impacts are clear, aren’t they from the personal struggle of dealing with preventable diseases to the environmental problems we are creating for future generations. Alex, Dr. Hyman keeps reminding us that this system isn’t something that can’t be changed; it's been designed to be this way. And if we designed this mess, that means we can fix it. Alex: Absolutely. Regenerative agriculture, shifting subsidies to promote sustainable practices, encouraging fresh food production—these are all steps to fix the mess. It won’t happen overnight, but if we recognize how connected these problems are, we can understand why the solutions need to be connected, too.

Alex: So, these interconnected crises… they really open the door to solutions that benefit both us and the planet. Truly fixing this broken system means we've got to look at strategies from all angles—personal responsibility, community action, and, of course, changes to the system itself. The way forward has to be about making our entire food system regenerative, sustainable, and fair for everyone. Today, let's dive into some of those practical solutions and talk about how we can all play a part in making things better. Michelle: Exactly, it's like we're flipping the script here. Instead of just dwelling on all the problems, we’re going to map out solutions that, let's be honest, require everyone's involvement—from our leaders to our communities, and yes, even us as individuals. Let's start with one of the most talked-about ideas, and for good reason: regenerative agriculture. Alex, can you explain what this is exactly? Because when some people hear "regenerative," they might think we're suddenly in some science fiction movie or something. Alex: Regenerative agriculture is really the opposite of what industrial farming has been doing. It's about working with the land, not against it. We're talking about things like crop rotation—planting different crops during different seasons to keep the soil healthy—and holistic grazing, where animals move around in ways that mimic nature, which helps the land recover. And then there's cover cropping, which is planting crops specifically to protect the soil, stop erosion, and put nutrients back in. Basically, it's using nature to heal itself. Michelle: You know, it sounds like just plain old common sense farming. Why did we ever stop doing this in the first place? Alex: Well, industrial farming kind of sidelined these methods in favor of monocultures—you know, planting the same crop over and over—and using synthetic chemicals. Those quick fixes gave us bigger harvests for a while, sure, but they also really depleted the land. Regenerative farming turns that around. It restores the soil so it can hold water better, suck carbon out of the atmosphere, and support a wider variety of life. There’s a great story about a farmer in North Dakota named Gabe Brown. He used regenerative practices to turn his failing land into a thriving, sustainable farm. Michelle: Yeah, that story is incredible. Here's a guy who's hit rock bottom, bankrupt, with soil that's basically just lifeless dirt. And instead of just sticking with the usual methods, he does something totally different. Regenerative agriculture didn’t just save his farm; it completely transformed it. His soil went from barely absorbing any water to holding over eight inches of water per hour. That's the kind of resilience we really need everywhere. Alex: Exactly! But, for that to happen, we need to see this on a much larger scale. Right now, the agricultural system as a whole actually encourages the opposite. Regenerative farming relies on practices that aren’t always compatible with the quick profits that agribusiness is after. So, to really make this work, we need policy changes. Look at France’s "4 per 1000" initiative—the idea is that if we could increase global soil carbon by just a tiny bit each year, it could offset most of our greenhouse gas emissions. Governments really need to get behind these kinds of incentives. Michelle: But will they? I mean, that's the million-dollar question, right? Agribusiness basically funds political campaigns with all that lobbying money just to keep things the way they are. Even just reforming subsidies would be a huge step. Right now, most of the subsidies support unhealthy crops like corn, which is used to make things like corn syrup. Can you imagine if we shifted that funding to farmers who are growing really nutritious crops like spinach and kale? Alex: It’s definitely possible. Look at programs like SNAP’s Healthy Incentives Program. It gives people extra money to buy fruits and vegetables. It’s a relatively small change, but it’s been shown to really help boost consumption of healthy foods in lower-income households. You combine that with larger policy changes, and you start to see some real momentum. Michelle: Absolutely. And let’s talk about soda taxes for a second, because that's another example of how policy can make a difference. In Philadelphia, the soda tax didn't just cut sales of sugary drinks by a third in low-income areas, it also raised half a billion dollars! And a lot of that money went to funding universal pre-K education. It's a win-win situation. But, of course, industries still complain that these taxes are "regressive." To me, that's just corporate PR designed to protect their profits. Alex: Exactly, what’s really regressive is that low-income families are being sold cheap food that's actually making them sick. Taxes like the one in Philadelphia not only reduce consumption of unhealthy products, but they also channel resources into communities that really need them. But if we want lasting change, these things can’t just be isolated experiments in a single city. They need to be scaled up nationwide. Michelle: Policy fixes are great and all, but let's zoom in on the local level for a second. I'm talking about grassroots movements, because while laws can take forever to change, local initiatives can really spark action right away. Think of Ron Finley, the so-called "Gangsta Gardener," who turned sidewalks and vacant lots in South Central L.A. into these amazing urban gardens. Alex: Ron Finley's story is all about resilience, isn’t it? He lived in a food desert, where fast food was everywhere and fresh produce was nowhere to be found, so he decided to do something about it by planting fruits and vegetables right in his own neighborhood. He faced resistance—the city even fined him at first—but he didn’t give up. Now, his urban farming movement has inspired so many people and turned empty spaces into reliable sources of fresh, affordable food. Michelle: It’s such a powerful example of taking the failure of the system and turning it into something that empowers the community. And it's not just about urban gardening either. Have you seen what the People's Grocery is doing in West Oakland? They literally bring fresh produce directly to underserved neighborhoods using a mobile grocery store. It's brilliant, and it actually works. Alex: Absolutely. These movements might seem small compared to industrial farming, but they’re incredibly powerful symbolically. They’re proving that healthier, more equitable food systems are possible, even in places where it seems impossible. Michelle: Okay, but grassroots efforts can only go so far when they're fighting systemic barriers. That's why public and private partnerships really need to step in. Even something as individualistic as "voting with your fork" needs support from institutions, whether that's through subsidies, better infrastructure, or tax reform. Alex: And yet, personal responsibility is still incredibly important. Supporting Community-Supported Agriculture, or CSAs, is a great example. When you buy directly from a local farm, you’re creating economic demand for sustainable farming practices. It has a ripple effect, not just in how food is grown, but also in how people see the value of their food choices. Michelle: I agree. Even small-scale individual actions, like starting your own vegetable garden or just being more conscious of what you buy, can really amplify the conversation. It's like voting—one person's vote might not seem like much, but when millions of people make similar choices, it really shapes broader movements. Alex: Which brings us back to collective action. Whether it’s individual citizens making more sustainable choices in their own diets or entire nations adopting regenerative agriculture policies, everyone has a part to play here. Achieving food justice isn’t about one single solution; it’s about approaching it from every possible angle. When people take responsibility—and demand the same from corporations and governments—change becomes inevitable.

Alex: Okay, so, to bring our discussion to a close, Dr. Hyman’s “Food Fix” really exposes the systematic problems within our food industry—how it seems to value profit above all else, damages the environment, and worsens inequalities, especially for those who are already struggling. We’ve looked at the ingrained structures that favor industrial agriculture and the far-reaching consequences of diet-related diseases, soil damage, and, of course, climate change. Michelle: Right, and we didn’t just dwell on the problems. The book also presents a strong argument for solutions—from potentially controversial policy changes like taxing unhealthy foods and supporting sustainable farming to community initiatives like urban gardens and local food programs. The message is pretty clear: this isn’t just a personal problem, or even just a government issue—it's something that concerns all of us. Alex: Exactly. But here’s the key thing I want everyone to remember: this system, as flawed as it may be, was created through intentional choices. And that means we can dismantle it, redesign it, and rebuild it. Whether you’re backing regenerative agriculture, advocating for better policies, or simply choosing to buy local and fresh when you can, every little bit helps. Michelle: Definitely. But it’s not enough to just "vote with your fork," as they say. Vote with your actual vote, make your voice heard, and take action. Demand transparency, demand justice, and demand a shift in priorities from both corporations and governments. Because improving our food system is not just about survival—it’s about building a world where everyone has a fair shot at health and sustainability, right? Alex: Absolutely, it’s really not just about what you’re eating today—it’s about the kind of world we’re creating for future generations. The question is, what role will each of us play in fixing this? Because this isn’t just a food fight—it’s a fight for what’s right, for health, and for the planet. Michelle: Well put, Alex. So, let’s keep exploring, keep questioning, and keep working towards solutions. I mean, ultimately, we’re all affected by this. Catch you next time.