Mark: Alright, Michelle. The book is 'Existential Kink.' If you had to guess its core message based only on that title, what would you say? Michelle: Easy. It's a self-help guide for people whose favorite hobby is making their own life a dramatic, high-budget disaster movie. And secretly, they love it. Mark: That is… shockingly accurate. You’ve basically skipped to the last page. Today we are diving into a book that is as provocative as its title: Existential Kink: Unmask Your Shadow and Embrace Your Power by Carolyn Elliott. Michelle: I’m honestly a little proud of myself. But now I’m intrigued. Who comes up with a title like that? It doesn’t exactly scream ‘live, laugh, love.’ Mark: Well, and this is what makes the book so fascinating, Carolyn Elliott has a PhD in Critical and Cultural Studies. She's a full-blown academic who decided the university world wasn't for her and instead plunged headfirst into applied occult philosophy and what she calls 'transformative magic.' Michelle: Okay, hold on. An academic occultist? That’s a combination you don’t see every day. It’s like finding out your quantum physics professor also reads tarot cards on the weekend. Mark: Exactly. And the book reflects that. It's this wild, potent cocktail of deep psychological theory from Carl Jung, raw personal confession, and very direct, hands-on spiritual practices. It’s received some really polarizing reviews, with some readers calling it life-changing and others finding it… let's say, a bit 'out there.' Michelle: I can already see why. So, where does this journey into academic witchcraft begin? What’s the first step into the world of Existential Kink? Mark: It starts with the single most challenging, and frankly, uncomfortable idea in the entire book. A core axiom that underpins everything else.

Mark: The foundational premise is this: "Having is evidence of wanting." Michelle: Hmm. Okay. Unpack that for me. Because my brain immediately goes to all the things I have that I definitely do not want. Like, you know, taxes. Or that pile of laundry that’s staging a quiet rebellion in my bedroom. Mark: She’s not talking about laundry, though maybe we could apply it there too. She’s talking about the big, persistent, negative patterns in our lives. The recurring dramas. The feeling of being stuck in a financial hole you can’t climb out of. The tendency to always end up in relationships with the same type of person who drives you crazy. Michelle: Right, the stuff we complain about to our friends over brunch. Mark: Exactly. And her argument is that if a pattern is persistent, if it keeps showing up again and again, it’s because on some deep, unconscious level, a part of you is choosing it. A part of you is getting something out of it. A part of you wants it. Michelle: Wait, Mark. That is a tough pill to swallow. If someone is struggling with genuine poverty, or they're in a physically or emotionally abusive relationship, are we really saying they want that? It sounds dangerously close to victim-blaming. Mark: It’s the single biggest and most important objection to this idea, and the book dives right into it. The author uses her own life as the primary, and most powerful, case study. She’s not pointing fingers from an ivory tower; she’s pointing right back at herself. Michelle: Okay, that’s fair. So what was her story? Mark: After getting her PhD, a moment that should have been a pinnacle of success, she found herself completely broke. We're talking standing-in-line-at-the-food-bank broke. At the same time, she was in a relationship with a man who was jealous, controlling, and physically violent. By all external measures, her life was a mess. Michelle: That sounds awful. So how did she get from that reality to believing she wanted it? Mark: It started with a quiet, strange thought she had while in that food bank line. The thought was, "I wonder… if some part of me really, actually likes this." It was a horrifying thought, but she couldn't shake it. So she started to investigate it, not with judgment, but with radical curiosity. Michelle: That takes some serious courage. To even allow that thought to exist. Mark: It does. And as she explored it, she realized that the constant drama, the feeling of being controlled, the financial scarcity… it all gave her a certain kind of thrill. It was a dark, twisted, kinky thrill. The feeling of being so important that someone would try to control her every move, the nail-biting intensity of not knowing if she could pay rent—it was a source of high sensation. It made her feel alive in a way that a stable, predictable life didn't. She was, in her words, getting off on the drama. Michelle: Wow. So it’s not about blaming the conscious person who is suffering and wants out. It’s about turning on the lights in the basement of our psyche and finding this other, hidden part of us that’s secretly running the show because it's addicted to a certain feeling. Mark: Precisely. It's about making the unconscious conscious. She quotes Carl Jung throughout the book: "Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will rule your life and you will call it Fate." She realized her 'fate' of poverty and bad relationships wasn't fate at all. It was a series of choices made by a part of her she hadn't even met yet. Michelle: And what happened when she finally 'met' that part of herself and acknowledged what it wanted? Mark: The pattern dissolved. Almost instantly. Once she consciously gave herself permission to feel the pleasure she was getting from the constriction and the drama, the need for the external situation vanished. The resentment she felt for her partner, which was the 'glue' of the relationship, disappeared. She left him, and within a few months, her income skyrocketed from a couple thousand a month to over ten thousand. The external reality shifted because the internal desire had been fulfilled consciously. Michelle: That’s a powerful story. It reframes the whole idea from 'what's wrong with me?' to 'what part of me is this serving?' It’s still a deeply challenging idea, but I can see the thread of empowerment in it. Mark: It is. And the book doesn't just leave you there with this shocking idea. It offers this beautiful, ancient story to explain why we even have this impulse to explore our own darkness in the first place.

Mark: It’s a complete re-telling of the Greek myth of Persephone and Pluto. Michelle: Oh, I know this one from high school mythology. Pluto, gloomy god of the Underworld, kidnaps the innocent flower-maiden Persephone and forces her to be his queen. Her mother, the goddess of the harvest, gets so sad she makes winter happen. It’s a classic story of victimhood. Mark: That’s the version we all know. But Elliott argues that this is a later, patriarchal retelling that obscures a much older, more powerful story. In the book's interpretation, Persephone isn't a victim at all. She is the original, all-powerful Queen of the Underworld, a complete goddess. Michelle: So where does Pluto come from? Mark: In this version, Persephone, in her eternal completeness, gets… bored. She desires to experience something new: duality, separation, drama, innocence, and even suffering. So, she performs a magical act. She splits herself in two. She projects a part of her own divinity outwards, creating an 'Other.' And that 'Other' is Pluto. Michelle: Whoa. So Pluto isn't her kidnapper. He's a part of her that she created to play a game with? Mark: Exactly. He is her own disowned power, her own darkness, her capacity for destruction and control, made manifest. The 'kidnapping' is actually her own soul choosing to descend into the experience of being separate, of being 'innocent,' of being seemingly powerless, so she can experience the full spectrum of existence. Michelle: That completely flips the story on its head. It’s not a tragedy; it’s an experiment. Mark: It's a divine game of hide-and-seek with oneself. And the climax of the story isn't her rescue. It's the moment in the Underworld when she consciously chooses to eat the pomegranate seeds. In this interpretation, that act symbolizes her consciously accepting the Underworld, her own darkness, back into herself. She remembers that she created Pluto, she forgives him, and she takes her throne back, not as a captive, but as a whole, integrated, and fully aware sovereign ruler. Michelle: Wow. So, in this view, my 'Pluto' isn't my horrible boss. My horrible boss is just a projection of a part of me that I've refused to look at. A part that maybe gets off on feeling powerless or righteous indignation. Mark: You've got it. The Underworld isn't a place you get dragged to. It's a dimension of your own being that you are unconsciously drawn to explore. And true power doesn't come from escaping it; it comes from integrating it. From eating the pomegranate seeds and choosing to rule your own inner darkness. Michelle: That is a much more compelling, and frankly, more useful story. It gives you agency. But it’s still very high-concept. I get the theory, it's provocative and the myth is a great analogy. But how does this work in practice? What does a normal person, say, with a boring job they hate, actually do? Mark: That's the million-dollar question, and it brings us to the core practice of the book. It’s not just philosophy; it’s a technique.

Mark: The practice itself is a form of meditation. The book gives very clear, step-by-step instructions. First, you get into a relaxed state. This is crucial because tension blocks sensation. Then, you bring to mind a 'don't like' situation. Not a massive, 10-out-of-10 trauma, but a persistent, annoying problem. Maybe it's your chronic procrastination, or the way your partner never listens. Michelle: Okay, I think we can all find one of those pretty easily. Mark: Then, and this is the key, you don't focus on the story or the facts of the situation. You focus on the feeling it generates in your body. The tightness in your chest, the heat of anger in your face, the sinking feeling of disappointment in your stomach. Michelle: You tune into the physical sensation of the emotion. Mark: Yes. And once you're really feeling it, you ask a simple, curious question: "What part of me is enjoying this sensation?" You gently scan your awareness for any flicker of pleasure, any hint of excitement, any sense of rightness or satisfaction that's hidden underneath the 'pain.' Michelle: And you're saying you'll actually find something? Mark: The book argues, yes, you always will. And to illustrate this, it tells the story of a client named Elsie. Elsie had crippling anxiety about being criticized by her friends. She felt small, judged, and powerless whenever it happened. Michelle: A very common fear. Mark: So, in her EK practice, she focused on that anxious, judged feeling. As she stayed with the sensation, she had a breakthrough. She realized that what she was labeling as 'anxiety' was actually a kind of 'kinky excitement.' Michelle: Kinky excitement? How so? Mark: She realized she loved the intense, theatrical momentousness of being the center of negative attention. It was dramatic! It made her feel important. The 'pain' of being criticized was just the ticket price for the 'pleasure' of being the star of the show. She was unconsciously provoking people into criticizing her just to get that hit of dramatic energy. Michelle: Oh, I know that feeling. It's like when you complain about being 'too busy,' but secretly, a part of you loves feeling important and in-demand. The stress is a byproduct of the ego-boost. Mark: That's a perfect analogy. And for Elsie, once she consciously owned this—once she said to herself, "I love the thrill of being judged," and really let herself savor that feeling without shame—the need to create the situation externally just… faded away. She stopped provoking her friends and eventually found a new social circle that she genuinely enjoyed, one where she didn't need to play the victim to feel alive. Michelle: So the magic isn't in changing the external world. The magic is in changing your relationship to your internal world. By consciously getting the 'pleasure' you were seeking unconsciously, you satisfy the desire, and the pattern has no more fuel. Mark: That is the entire engine of Existential Kink in a nutshell. You integrate the shadow by loving it, by getting off on it, and in doing so, you reclaim the power that was being used to create your own misery.

Mark: So when you put it all together, you have this three-part journey. It starts with the radical premise that we unconsciously want our biggest problems. Michelle: Which is explained by the Persephone myth, this idea that the soul is drawn to explore darkness and duality as a path to wholeness. Mark: Exactly. And then you have a concrete, meditative practice for consciously engaging with that dark desire, finding the pleasure in it, and dissolving the negative pattern from the inside out. Michelle: But the key seems to be that it's not about wallowing or masochism for its own sake. The book is very clear: you should only do this practice when you're in a relatively good, resourceful state. It's about approaching your darkness from a place of power and curiosity, not when you're already depressed and likely to just ruminate. Mark: A hundred percent. It’s about transmuting the energy, not just enduring it. And that's why the book is so polarizing. It asks you to take a level of radical responsibility that can feel deeply uncomfortable. It challenges the victim narrative that is so prevalent in our culture. Michelle: It really does. It’s not saying that bad things don't happen or that systemic issues aren't real. But it's focused on the part of the equation you can control: your own inner world and the secret stories you tell yourself. Mark: And for the readers who connect with it, that shift in perspective is the key that finally unlocks the door. It moves them from being a passenger in a life that 'happens to them' to being the driver who understands they've been choosing the destination all along. Michelle: It definitely leaves you with a big, and maybe slightly terrifying, question to ponder: What's one recurring 'problem' in your life that, if you were brutally honest, you might be getting a secret thrill from? Mark: It's a wild question to sit with. The answer might be surprising. We'd love to hear your thoughts if you've read the book or if this conversation sparked something for you. Find us on our socials and share your experience. Michelle: It’s a conversation worth having. Mark: This is Aibrary, signing off.