Michelle: Alright Mark, I'm going to say the name of a book, and I want your gut reaction. Ready? Every Job Is a Sales Job. Mark: Ugh. My gut reaction is to check my wallet and run. It sounds like a book written by someone who calls you during dinner to sell you an extended car warranty. The title alone gives me the "ick." Michelle: That's perfect! Because that's exactly the 'ick factor' the author, Dr. Cindy McGovern, wants to dismantle. And what's fascinating is that she's not your typical sales guru. She has a doctorate in organizational communication and was a college professor who initially hated the idea of sales herself. Mark: A professor who hates sales wrote a book about sales? Okay, now I'm intrigued. That's a twist. That’s like a vegan writing a guide to butchery. What’s the story there? Michelle: It’s a great story, and it’s the foundation of the whole book. She argues that we’ve completely misunderstood what “selling” is. She wants to prove that everyone—from professors and lawyers to coders and mechanics—is already a salesperson. We just don't use that word for it. Mark: Okay, I’m skeptical, but I’m listening. So what's her big idea? That we're all secretly wearing cheap suits and carrying briefcases under our normal clothes? Michelle: Not quite. Her argument is that any time you are trying to persuade someone, you're selling. Convincing your team to adopt a new workflow? You're selling your idea. Persuading your boss you deserve a raise? You're selling yourself. Getting your toddler to eat broccoli? That, my friend, is the toughest sales pitch of all. Mark: I have lost that sale many, many times. But hold on, is convincing a jury or getting students to do homework really a sale? Isn't that just... doing your job well? It feels like we're just slapping the 'sales' label on everything. Michelle: That's the mental hurdle she wants us to clear. She tells her own origin story in the book. She was a college professor, comfortable in academia, and wanted a career change. She applied for a consultant job at an insurance company with zero experience in consulting or insurance. Mark: That sounds like a recipe for a very short interview. Michelle: You'd think! But during the phone screen, the interviewer, Laura, mentioned the title was "sales management consultant." McGovern felt her stomach drop. But instead of hanging up, she used her communication skills. She listened intently, mirrored Laura's language, and focused all her energy on one goal: selling Laura on the idea of giving her an in-person interview. Mark: So she wasn't selling the company on hiring her, just on the next small step. Michelle: Exactly. And it worked. She got the interview, got the job, and later, her boss moved her into a pure sales role. That's when she had her epiphany: the skills she used to land the job—listening, building rapport, persuading—were the exact same skills the top sales professionals were using. She was a natural salesperson and never even knew it. Mark: Huh. So she’s saying we all have this latent ability, but we’re scared of the word "sales" because we associate it with that pushy car salesman stereotype. Michelle: Precisely. She uses this great analogy in the book called the "Blue Car Syndrome." Mark: I think I know this one. You buy a blue car, and suddenly you see blue cars everywhere on the road. Michelle: That’s the one. They were always there, but you weren't primed to notice them. She argues that once you accept that you're a salesperson, you'll start seeing these acts of selling everywhere—in the boardroom, at the dinner table, at the mechanic's shop. Your perception fundamentally shifts. Mark: Okay, that makes sense. It’s a reframing. You’re not becoming something you’re not; you’re just recognizing a skill you already use. I'm less likely to run away now. But how does this actually work in practice?

Michelle: And that's the perfect transition. Once you start seeing these 'sales' everywhere, the next step McGovern outlines is learning how to create them. This brings us to my favorite concept in the book: the 'Hey, by the way...' sale. Mark: The 'Hey, by the way...' sale. That sounds incredibly casual. Almost accidental. Michelle: It often is. These are the unofficial sales that happen in the middle of doing something else. They're not about a formal pitch; they're about listening and identifying a need that the other person might not have even voiced yet. She tells two stories that perfectly illustrate this, almost like a parable of the right way and the wrong way. Mark: A parable of sales. I'm ready. Give me the gospel of McGovern. Michelle: First, we have Ben, the HVAC technician. It's the first 95-degree day of summer in D.C., and the author's air conditioning dies. She calls a company, and Ben shows up. He's polite, he diagnoses the problem, and fixes the AC. Standard stuff. Mark: Right, that's just good service. Where's the sale? Michelle: As he's working, the author casually mentions, "Ugh, on top of this, my gas furnace was leaking all winter." Now, the wrong technician hears that, nods, and keeps working on the AC. But Ben stops. He asks a few questions. Then he says, "Do you mind if I take a quick look at it while I'm here?" Mark: Ah, I see where this is going. He's not waiting to be asked. Michelle: Exactly. He inspects the furnace, finds a serious issue, and explains the repair options. He doesn't pressure her. He just presents the problem and the solution. The author, relieved, agrees to have him fix both. Ben walked in for one job and left with two, plus a loyal customer who then recommended him to all her neighbors. That's the 'Hey, by the way...' sale. It came from listening. Mark: Okay, I love that. He wasn't being a pushy salesperson. He was being a thorough problem-solver. The sale was just a natural outcome of his helpfulness. So what's the 'wrong way' story? Michelle: This one is painful. Meet Angelo, the home improvement pro. He's hired to build a beautiful new patio for a couple. He's talented, the work is great. Midway through the project, the wife comes out and says, "Angelo, this looks amazing! Hey, by the way, while you're here, would you be able to replace that rusty old railing on the back porch? We'd obviously pay you for it." Mark: That sounds like a dream for a contractor. An easy, profitable add-on to a job you're already on. Michelle: You would think! But Angelo gets annoyed. He complains that customers are always trying to add things to the job. He tells her, "No, that wasn't in the original contract. I'm here to do the patio." He completely shuts her down. Mark: Oh, Angelo. That is my nightmare contractor. It's amazing how one small 'no' can feel so personal and just sour the whole relationship. Michelle: It did more than that. The wife was so put off by his inflexibility and bad attitude that she decided not to recommend him to her neighbors, who were all planning similar projects. He saved himself maybe an hour of discussion but cost himself tens of thousands in potential future business. He failed to see the opportunity right in front of him. Mark: The contrast is so clear. Ben listened for a problem he could solve. Angelo heard a problem and saw it as an inconvenience. It’s a fundamental difference in mindset. Michelle: It is. McGovern calls this "consultative sales." It’s not about pushing a product; it’s about helping people by offering solutions. And you can only do that if you're truly listening. She gives another great example of a PR professional named Sarah, who was hired to do a simple brochure for a new pet spa. Mark: A one-and-done job. Michelle: Supposedly. But during the video shoot, Sarah noticed the owner's wife, who was meant to be the spokesperson, was terrified of the camera. She was stiff, awkward, and the footage was unusable. Instead of just sighing and trying to work with it, Sarah pulled her aside and said, "Hey, I can see this is a bit uncomfortable. My firm actually offers media training. I could work with you for a few hours to help you feel more natural on camera." Mark: And let me guess, the wife said yes. Michelle: She jumped at the chance. That one 'Hey, by the way' offer transformed a one-time project into a recurring client relationship. The pet spa became one of the firm's most loyal accounts. All because Sarah was observant and offered a solution to a problem the client hadn't even asked for help with. Mark: This is all great in theory, but how does someone who's, say, an accountant or a coder, actually start looking for these 'Hey, by the way' opportunities without sounding awkward or pushy? It feels like a fine line to walk. Michelle: That's the million-dollar question, and it really comes down to the first step in her five-step process, which is to Plan. But it's not about planning a script. It's about planning your mindset. It's about being authentic. She tells this story about a sales rep named Anna who felt she had to "grovel" for business, even offering free sports tickets to clients, which made her feel slimy. Mark: The classic 'icky' sales tactics. Michelle: Right. But McGovern coached her to stop thinking about what she could get from clients and start planning how she could help them. Anna's plan became about asking questions to see if her service was genuinely a good fit. Her entire demeanor changed. She saw herself as an equal, a consultant, not a beggar. Her sales, and her happiness, skyrocketed. The plan was to be authentic. Mark: So the plan isn't 'Step 1: offer tickets, Step 2: close deal.' The plan is 'Step 1: be a decent, helpful human. Step 2: see what happens.' Michelle: That's the essence of it. And it creates what she calls 'commercial moments.' These are the organic, positive interactions that become your best advertisement. She talks about a Home Depot employee who saw parents struggling to figure out how to build a walker for their disabled son. He spent his own time helping them build one out of PVC pipes. That story went viral. That's a commercial moment. Mark: Wow. And you can't buy that kind of marketing. But I bet there are 'bad commercials' too. Michelle: Oh, absolutely. She tells a story about going to a gym she walks by every day. She was ready to join, cash in hand. She asked the front desk person for a class schedule. The employee just waved a hand and said, "It's online." She asked if she could pay per class. The employee said, "You have to talk to a sales rep for that." Zero help. Zero interest. Mark: And she walked out. Michelle: She walked out. That gym created a negative commercial moment that not only lost her business but probably the business of anyone she told that story to. That one unhelpful employee cost them thousands in lifetime revenue. It all comes back to the same idea: every interaction is a transaction, and every transaction is a sale. You're either selling a positive experience or a negative one.

Mark: So it seems the whole philosophy boils down to this: stop thinking about 'selling' and start thinking about 'helping.' The sale is just a byproduct of being genuinely useful and observant. It’s about shifting your focus from your own goal to the other person’s problem. Michelle: Precisely. And that's how you get rid of the 'ick factor.' It's not about tricking people; it's about creating those positive 'commercial moments.' The book is a Wall Street Journal bestseller, and I think it’s because this message resonates. People are tired of feeling like they're being manipulated. McGovern gives them permission to reframe selling as an act of service. Mark: It’s a powerful reframe. You’re not a salesperson; you’re a problem-solver. You’re not closing a deal; you’re opening a relationship. The language we use really shapes our reality. Michelle: It absolutely does. And the book argues that this applies to everything, what she calls 'life sales.' Negotiating with your partner, asking for help from a neighbor, even getting a better table at a restaurant. The principles are the same: Plan, Look for Opportunities, Establish Trust, Ask, and Follow Up. Mark: I have to admit, I'm sold. The idea of the 'Hey, by the way' sale is going to stick with me. It feels like a superpower that's been dormant. It’s not about adding a new, uncomfortable skill; it’s about activating one you already have. Michelle: And it all starts with listening. That's the real secret weapon. The HVAC tech, the PR professional—they won because they listened more than they talked. They heard the unvoiced need. Mark: So the challenge for our listeners is simple: for the next week, just listen. Listen for one 'Hey, by the way...' moment. You don't even have to act on it, just notice it. See if you can spot an opportunity to help that you might have missed before. Michelle: I love that. It’s a small, actionable step. And let us know what you find. We're always curious to hear how these ideas play out in the real world. You can always find us on our socials to share your stories. Mark: It’s a great reminder that the most profound changes often start with the simplest shifts in perspective. Michelle: This is Aibrary, signing off.