Autumn: Hey everyone, welcome back to the podcast! Today, we’re diving into something super interesting: emotional agility. I think it can “really” change how you deal with stuff – you know, at work, in relationships, just day-to-day. Have you ever felt completely stuck, like you’re just going around in circles, frustrated, doubting yourself, and you just can't seem to break free? Rachel: Oh totally, Autumn. Sounds like my average Monday morning, doesn’t it? But "emotional agility"—I mean, what are we even talking about? Is this some kind of trendy self-help thing? Autumn: Well, kind of, Rachel! But it’s also a lot deeper than that. Emotional agility, as Susan David talks about in her book, Get Unstuck, Embrace Change, and Thrive in Work and Life, is “really” about how you handle life’s ups and downs. It’s about staying mindful, being flexible, and “really” understanding your own emotions. Think of it as your personal playbook for building resilience, being kind to yourself, and making sure you're living in line with what’s truly important to you. Rachel: Okay, I’m intrigued. So, what's our strategy for today? How are we going to tackle this? Autumn: Today, we’re going to break the book down into three main moves. First, we're going to look at the traps of emotional rigidity – those mental loops that keep us stuck in the mud. Second, we’ll dig into tools for building agility, like learning to look at your emotions with… well, I guess something like the grace of a mental gymnast. And third, we'll talk about how to weave these new skills into your everyday routine – building habits that connect with your core values. Rachel: "Emotional gymnastics," eh? Sounds exhausting. I'm already picturing myself doing cartwheels of anxiety... but fine, I’m game. Where do we start? Autumn: Trust me, Rachel, it's not about fighting your emotions. It's about working with them. So, let's dive in!

Autumn: Okay, let’s dive into the foundation here: understanding emotional rigidity. This, Rachel, is what “really” holds us back. You know, those patterns where we suppress emotions, or constantly replay them, or even just cling to beliefs that don't serve us anymore. Really common. Rachel: Ah, so this is the “why can’t I just get over it?” phenomenon? Like, replaying that mortifying moment from five years ago every time you try to fall asleep? Autumn: Exactly. Emotional rigidity isn’t just about being stubborn, it’s about getting locked into patterns that feel safe, but actually limit us. Like, "monkey-mindedness". You ever notice how your mind just jumps from thought to thought, each more draining, right? All the time! Rachel: Totally. It's like my brain is stuck on this endless loop. But isn't constant overthinking a side effect of...I don't know...caring too much, maybe? Autumn: That’s a fair point. Susan David actually addresses something similar in the book. She explains that our emotions—anxiety, frustration, fear—they’re actually evolved tools designed to help us adapt. Think about it: if early humans didn’t feel fear when they heard rustling in the bushes, they wouldn’t have wondered what caused it, or investigated, makes sense, huh? Rachel: So, you're saying emotions are like survival alarms? Or something? Autumn: Exactly. But here’s the catch: when we don’t manage them effectively, those alarms either get stuck on, or we suppress them entirely. Like, ignoring an annoying fire alarm instead of finding the smoke. Monkey-mindedness, for example, traps us in never-ending loops, leaving no space to think clearly or act decisively. Rachel: So my mental hamster wheel is just me tripping over my own thoughts? How do we escape this loop? Asking for a friend... Autumn: Great question. One tool David suggests is grounding. This is where you engage your senses to “really” root yourself in the present moment. Say your thoughts are spiraling after an argument, you might stop and look around: name five things you can see, four things you can touch, three things you hear, and so on. I do that sometimes. Rachel: Oh, a sensory scavenger hunt for the soul. I get the appeal– it's kind of hard to obsess over the past when you're busy counting birds outside the window. Autumn: Precisely. It’s a way to disrupt the mental chatter and bring your focus back to what’s real, what’s happening now. Rachel: Alright. But what if the loop isn’t just mental clutter? What if the problem is deeper...like beliefs you've carried for years? And years? Autumn: That’s another key aspect of emotional rigidity-- those outdated narratives we cling to. Let’s look at a case David describes. There’s Kevin, who developed a deep distrust of people due to a tough childhood. While that defense mechanism made sense back then, as an adult, it’s keeping him from building close relationships. So he’s trapped by his old beliefs. Rachel: So he’s hoarding these survival tools, even though he doesn't need them anymore? Autumn: Exactly. Another example is Tina, a professional who thrived in a cutthroat workplace by being overly guarded and combative. When her industry started valuing collaboration, her rigid habits started working against her. Rachel: Let me guess—she had to reset those habits, right? Autumn: Bingo. The way forward for people like Kevin and Tina is 'self-auditing' their values. They pause and ask, “Are these beliefs helping me right now? Or am I clinging to them out of fear, or just out of habit?” Tina, for instance, started identifying moments where her guarded behavior was alienating her teammates, and made small adjustments to show more trust and openness. Rachel: So this values audit...it's like doing personal inventory to see what's expired in the mental pantry? Autumn: That’s a sharp way to put it. Keeping beliefs aligned with current values, not past fears, is crucial to fostering emotional agility. Super crucial! Rachel: Okay, so we’ve tackled mental clutter with grounding, and rigid beliefs with values audits. What about those knee-jerk reactions we justify with, “That’s just how I think”? Autumn: Ah, you’re talking about thought-blaming. The idea that our thoughts dictate our actions, like, “I didn’t attend that event because I thought it would go badly.” It’s a sneaky way of avoiding responsibility, right? Rachel: Like giving our thoughts the power of gospel truth instead of spotting them as unreliable narrators. Autumn: Precisely. And here, David suggests a tool called cognitive delabeling. Instead of saying, “I can’t do this,” you say, “I’m having the thought that I can’t.” It creates space between you and the thought. It reminds you it’s just a passing mental event, not reality. Rachel: So it’s about unhooking the leash, not letting your thoughts drag you through the mud? Autumn: Exactly it. Viktor Frankl captures this perfectly, describing the “space between stimulus and response,” where our freedom to choose lies. By expanding that space, we regain control. Rachel: Which keeps us from letting every thought become king of the castle. I like this shift—it’s subtle but powerful. Autumn: And that brings us to the lighthouse parable David uses. A battleship captain orders what he thinks is another ship to move, but the reply is, “We are a lighthouse, sir.” It’s a perfect metaphor for emotional rigidity versus adaptability. Rachel: Let me guess—the captain represents our rigid self, stubbornly demanding life bend to our will, while the lighthouse is reality, unmoving no matter how much we fight it. Autumn: Nailed it, Rachel. Emotional agility is about adjusting ourselves when external circumstances are unavoidable. Instead of yelling at the lighthouse, you chart a new course. Rachel: Okay, I’m getting it—flexibility equals freedom, if you’re paying attention to both your emotions AND the realities around you.

Autumn: Exactly! By tuning into these patterns, that's when we can really start developing emotional agility. And honestly, that’s where the magic truly happens. We move beyond just reacting to our emotions and start using actionable strategies to approach them with, you know, real clarity, flexibility, and purpose. This whole topic builds on what we talked about last time, giving us a roadmap to get out of those mental ruts and live more intentionally, really focusing on self-awareness and making choices based on what we truly value. Rachel: A roadmap sounds fantastic, because honestly, I could definitely use one right now. So, where do we even start? What’s the first step? Autumn: It's all about "Showing Up." And what I mean there is fully engaging with your emotions, but without judging them. So instead of trying to bottle them up or, you know, getting completely overwhelmed by them, you really treat those emotions as signals – not as roadblocks. Take fear, for instance. Instead of letting it freeze you in your tracks, emotional agility helps you see it as a signal that says, "Hey, this is really important to you!" Rachel: So, it’s like the emotional equivalent of finally opening all those emails you’ve been ignoring? Because deep down you know they’re probably trying to tell you something, even if you don't necessarily want to hear it? Autumn: Absolutely, Rachel. Actually, one of David's most touching examples comes from her own experience with grief when her father was terminally ill. She started journaling to help her process those incredibly intense emotions she was facing. And writing allowed her to really name what she was feeling and reflect on it, which ultimately helped her find some deeper understanding and healing. Rachel: Wow, that's pretty powerful. So, instead of running away from this huge wave of grief, she sort of found a way to ride it? Autumn: That's a great analogy. Think of emotions like tools that help you navigate. Whether it's fear, anger, or sadness, each one points to something important that deserves attention. The key is to really acknowledge those feelings instead of immediately trying to fix them or push them down. Rachel: Okay, but saying "Just let me sit with my sadness for a while" sounds great in theory, but how does someone actually put that into practice in their day-to-day life? Autumn: That's a great question. David suggests trying out what she calls "The Observer's Lens." Imagine you're stepping outside yourself and observing your emotions almost like a scientist looking at something interesting. Instead of saying, "I’m angry," you could reframe it as, "I notice I'm feeling anger." That little shift creates just a bit of space between you and the emotion, which gives you room to explore it without being completely taken over by it. Rachel: So, it’s kind of like putting your feelings in a display case instead of wearing them like a costume, right? You can look at them and examine them, but you don’t have to live inside them. Autumn: Exactly! This lens helps you understand the ‘why’ behind the emotion – like, what is it trying to tell you about what you value, or maybe some needs that aren't being met, or even your fears? And speaking of unmet needs, that leads us to the second practice: "Stepping Out." Rachel: Creating some distance from your emotions, right? But what does that actually look like in practice? Autumn: Well, it’s about breaking that automatic connection between what you feel and how you react. You pause, you give yourself some space to choose a different response, instead of just reacting on autopilot. One way to practice this is by labeling your emotions. Neuroscience has shown that simply naming an emotion, like saying, “I’m feeling anxious right now,” can actually reduce how intense it feels. It activates the prefrontal cortex of your brain, which is the part responsible for rational thought and decision-making. Rachel: Wait a minute, so by basically playing Sherlock Holmes and giving this emotion a name, I can actually turn down the volume on it? That sounds... almost too easy. Autumn: It can seem that way, but it does take practice. A really fascinating example of this in action is how LeBron James handled the media craziness surrounding his 2010 "Decision" to leave the Cleveland Cavaliers. He started referring to himself in the third person—"LeBron James is weighing his options"—which allowed him to detach a bit from all that emotional pressure at the time. By stepping back, he could look at his goals without getting swept up in the drama. Rachel: So, are you telling me we should all start talking about ourselves in the third person like we’re celebrities? Autumn: Not necessarily, but the idea is similar. That separation gave LeBron some room to choose based on what really mattered to him in the long run. And, you know, for us mere mortals, there's a simpler shortcut: mindful breathing. When your emotions feel like they’re getting out of control, just slowing down and focusing on your breath can really anchor you in the present. Four seconds in, a little pause, and four seconds out. It sounds simple, but it can really do wonders for creating that mental pause. Rachel: So, calm the breath, calm the brain. Makes sense. But what happens after we’ve shown up for our emotions and stepped away from them? What’s the third piece of this puzzle? Autumn: Alright, the final, and maybe most important, move is "Walking Your Why." This is the thing that ties it all together. It’s about making sure your actions match up with your core values, so you're not just reacting to whatever life throws at you, but you’re actually living in a way that's meaningful to you. Rachel: Okay, so… values like “don’t completely lose it in a boardroom meeting” or are we talking about something a little more profound than that? Autumn: Definitely more profound, but not necessarily complicated. Your values might be something like compassion, integrity, or creativity – whatever really resonates with you personally. A great example is Tom Shadyac, the Hollywood director who made films like “Bruce Almighty”. Despite all the success he had, he still felt kind of empty inside. He reflected on his values and ended up selling his mansion, simplifying his life, and really focusing on projects that promoted kindness and community. Rachel: So, he traded blockbuster numbers for living a more authentic life. That’s a pretty bold move. But what if someone isn't really sure what their "why" is in the first place? Autumn: Journaling can be a great tool for that. Start by picking one or two values – say, gratitude or courage – and then track how your actions each day line up with those values. For example, after a tough conversation at work, you might ask yourself, "Did I focus on being kind in that situation, or was I reacting out of fear?" Rachel: So, it’s like a guided self-check-in, right? Holding yourself accountable to your best intentions. Autumn: Exactly. And that’s what’s so great about emotional agility. It helps us move from a place where we’re just controlled by our emotions to a place where we’re navigating them with awareness and purpose. You’re not just yelling at the lighthouse anymore; you’re actually adjusting your course, and living in a way that feels authentic and purposeful. Rachel: Okay, it’s definitely becoming clearer, Autumn. At its core, it sounds like emotional agility is less about completely “fixing” ourselves and more about simply embracing our humanity with a little more grace, even when things get a little rough.

Autumn: So, all these insights really boil down to one ultimate goal: applying emotional agility in the real world. We're talking about taking these concepts and using them in your daily life, in your relationships. It's about putting emotional agility into practice, showing how it can help you make better decisions and improve your overall well-being. Rachel: Ah, so we're moving away from all the theory and getting down to the practical stuff, like a how-to guide for life? Autumn: Exactly, Rachel. These principles aren't just abstract ideas. They're tools we can use to approach everyday challenges with a clear head and a sense of purpose. We'll be talking about the Tiny Tweaks Principle, the See-Saw Principle, and knowing when to stick it out and when to throw in the towel. They all offer straightforward ways to thrive, even when life gets messy. Rachel: Okay, Tiny Tweaks, huh? Is this like the motivational poster version of "baby steps"? What’s so special about doing things in small increments? Autumn: Well, small is “everything” when it comes to making lasting changes. The Tiny Tweaks Principle is about making small, manageable adjustments that actually matter to you and align with what you want to achieve. Instead of trying to completely transform your life overnight, you make small, intentional changes that build up over time. Rachel: So, like hiding vegetables in your kid’s favorite mac and cheese? Gradual improvement disguised as the usual routine, right? Autumn: Exactly! David's idea of "habit piggybacking" is a perfect example. You take something you already do, like brushing your teeth, and add a small new habit like a quick stretch or a moment of gratitude. It's an easy way to weave in positive changes without feeling overwhelmed. Rachel: Got it. But seriously, what “big difference” can these tiny little tweaks “really” make? Autumn: Think about Jean, a factory worker who reframed her repetitive job of inspecting medical tubing as literally saving lives. She even kept a jar of discarded tubing to remind herself of the real impact of her work. That small shift in perspective gave her routine a renewed sense of purpose and fulfillment. Rachel: So instead of just dragging herself to work every day, she managed to connect what she was doing to her core values. Makes you wonder, if these small tweaks are so effective, why aren't we all doing them all the time? Autumn: Often it’s because we’re seduced by the idea of “massive” changes. Like hitting the reset button and starting completely fresh. But neuroscience shows that our brains often resist big, sudden changes because they trigger feelings of fear and stress. By gently easing into change with tiny steps, we bypass that resistance. Rachel: Aha, so we're gently outsmarting our own brains, then. What’s a simple, practical thing someone could try today? Autumn: Easy. Pick one habit you already have and attach something meaningful to it. For example, you could start writing down one thing you're grateful for while your coffee is brewing each morning. It's small, consistent, and the impact builds up. Rachel: Great, small moves can lead to big gains. So, what principle is next? Autumn: Next up is the See-Saw Principle, which is all about balancing the familiar with the challenging. Growth requires us to step outside our comfort zone but not so far that we get overwhelmed or burn out completely. Rachel: So, it's like walking a tightrope between sticking with what's safe and diving headfirst into total chaos. How does anyone manage that balance? Autumn: Think of it as scaling challenges gradually. Elite athletes, for example, master the basics first, then layer on more complex skills little by little. In our daily lives, it could mean taking on new responsibilities at work while continuing to focus on the things you already do well. That balance keeps you energized without pushing you to exhaustion. Rachel: Who knew life was like upgrading your operating system? But what happens when taking on a challenge leads to failure instead of success? Autumn: That's actually part of the process! David shares an interesting story about Sara Blakely, the founder of Spanx, to illustrate this. Her father would ask her at dinner, "How did you fail today?" He was intentionally reframing failure as a growth opportunity, not something to be avoided. Rachel: So, by tweaking how we think about failure, we can see it as a stepping stone instead of a dead end. I like that – failing smarter to grow stronger. Autumn: Exactly. And you can actively practice this by taking micro-risks – small, deliberate steps just outside your comfort zone. For instance, pitching a new idea at work or engaging in a difficult, but meaningful, conversation. Rachel: Small risks, big shifts in perspective. But that's just one side of the see-saw. What keeps us grounded when challenges seem to keep coming? Autumn: Good question. Familiarity becomes your anchor—your safe space. Maybe it's a morning walk, or weekly calls with your family. Having these grounding rituals provides stability when you're exploring new territory. Rachel: So it's about keeping one foot firmly planted in the familiar while reaching toward the unknown. Now, what about those major crossroads in life, how do we know when to persevere and when to change direction entirely? Autumn: That's where the Grit vs. Quit paradigm comes into play. Emotional agility helps us decide when it's worth sticking with something and when it's time to let go. The key is to make decisions based on our values, rather than on guilt or obligation. Rachel: Okay, but the sunk cost fallacy is real how do we get past the feeling of "I've already invested too much time/money/effort to quit now"? Autumn: You reframe the equation. Instead of fixating on past investments, assess whether continuing to pursue this goal “actually” aligns with your present and future values. Take the musician David mentions, who chose to move away from chasing fame and focus on teaching music locally. She wasn't quitting; she was redirecting her passion in a way that matched her values better. Rachel: And how can someone lost in the struggle of whether or not to let something go make such a crucial decision? Autumn: David suggests asking yourself questions like: "Does this still serve my values?" or "Am I holding on out of fear rather than genuine desire?" Clarity often comes when you consider what you'd gain by pivoting versus what you might lose by holding on. Rachel: In other words, stop agonizing over the past that's already happened! Focus on the opportunity cost; what “could” the future hold? Autumn: Exactly. And that clarity really is the core of emotional agility. It's not just about managing emotions; it's about using them as a guide, a compass to direct intentional, values-driven action in every part of our lives.

Autumn: Okay, Rachel, let's bring it all full circle. We've talked about how emotional rigidity can trap us, whether it's dwelling on things, holding onto beliefs that don't serve us anymore, or letting our thoughts completely control what we do. But then we looked at emotional agility, which gives us ways to, you know, really face our emotions, create some distance from them when we need to, and live in a way that actually reflects what's important to us. Rachel: Right. And we finished up with some actionable steps – making small changes over time, finding that balance between comfort and challenge using the See-Saw Principle, and deciding when to push through and when to let go, based on our values. It's a process, not an instant solution, but it can be pretty transformative if you commit to it. Autumn: Precisely. Emotional agility isn't about pushing away difficult emotions, it's about dealing with them in a mindful, clear, and purposeful way. So, for our listeners, maybe think about this: Is there one habit or belief you could start to rethink today? Even just naming a tricky emotion, trying something a little bit outside your comfort zone, or just considering whether your actions truly match your values. Rachel: Yeah, and remember, your emotions aren't shackles, they’re like a compass. You can recognize them without letting them completely dictate your direction. Autumn: Beautifully put, Rachel. And that wraps up our episode on Emotional Agility! Until next time, remember: flexibility isn’t just a good thing to have – it's a pathway forward.