Alex: Hey everyone, welcome to the show! Today, we're diving headfirst into creativity. And listen, this isn't just about being the next Picasso, okay? It's about tapping into that everyday magic of creating something, anything, in your own way. Michelle: Exactly. Because let's be real, most of us, myself included, aren't exactly composing operas in our spare time. Still, creativity? It sneaks its way into all sorts of little moments. You know, whipping up dinner, figuring out a tricky problem at work, even absentmindedly doodling during a boring meeting. Alex: Precisely! And we are using Elizabeth Gilbert's "Big Magic" as our guide today to kind of unpack this concept. Gilbert's core message? That creativity is this universal thing, it should be joyful, and—here's the kicker—it doesn't require some kind of perfect outcome or anyone else's approval. Michelle: Yeah, she’s basically telling the whole tortured artist stereotype to take a hike, right? I mean, this whole idea that you don’t need to suffer to create something worthwhile? That's, honestly, pretty great. Alex: Totally! Gilbert reframes creativity more like a playful exploration. We should approach it with curiosity instead of fear, be okay with a little failure on the way, seeing any mess as a part of the process, not something to avoid. Michelle: Sounds pretty good. But let's get down to business here - what are we actually covering today? Alex: Happy to. We've got five big ideas we're exploring. First, we're talking about how creativity isn't some exclusive club—it's universal, and everyone's invited. Second, we're going to tackle fear—why it seems to always crash the party when we're trying to create, and how to coexist with it without letting it steer the ship. Michelle: Ah, fear—that overly enthusiastic backseat driver of life. What's up next? Alex: Okay, so third, we're unlocking the creative process. How do we turn those ideas floating around in our heads into something real, even when we're battling self-doubt? Fourth, we'll touch on the magic itself—how creativity can unexpectedly change our lives for the better. Michelle: And lastly? Alex: Redefining what success really means. It's not about fame, fortune, or winning awards. It's the satisfaction and joy you get from simply creating. Michelle: So, we’re peeling back the layers of creativity like…an onion? Alex: Or maybe like a fancy layered cake—definitely more delicious! Seriously though, we're breaking it down and inviting our listeners to reignite their own creative spark.

Alex: Okay, so let’s really dig in, peel back the layers as you said, and get to the core of today’s topic: the universal nature of creativity. What’s so revolutionary about this idea is how it completely changes how we think about creativity. It's not some exclusive club for artists or geniuses. Elizabeth Gilbert wants us to see it as something innate, something human, like laughter or curiosity. It's built into who we are. Michelle: Exactly, she's basically taking that tired old “born with a gift” myth and chucking it out the window, right? And honestly, it’s so freeing to realize that it's not some elite ability you either have or don’t. It’s part of being human. So, even those of us who can barely draw a stick figure are still in the game. Alex: Precisely! And Gilbert uses such a beautiful metaphor to describe creativity: a treasure hunt. Life is the treasure map, and creativity is about being curious enough to follow it. It’s about spotting those little moments of magic... that flash of an idea, or that feeling that maybe there’s something amazing hiding beneath the surface. You know? Michelle: Treasure hunt, huh? It's a nice image. But, you know, let’s be real. Half the time, the “treasure” feels more like stumbling over a pile of rocks. Or worse, digging all day and coming up empty-handed. Alex: It’s a fair point. But here’s the thing, though: Gilbert’s treasure hunt isn’t about striking gold every time. It’s about the act of searching itself – the sheer pull of curiosity that keeps you moving forward. Take Susan’s story, for example. She picked up figure skating again after decades, not to compete or reach some huge milestone, but simply because she was curious. Michelle: Right, Susan... a figure-skating midlife renaissance. So she decided, “You know what? I’m going to lace up those skates again,” and she’s twirling around for fun? Sounds simple enough, but what's the real story here? Alex: Well, the key is the mindset she brought to it. She wasn’t seeking applause or validation. It was purely about the joy of rediscovering something, of reconnecting with a part of herself she’d forgotten. And that’s Gilbert's exact point – it’s not about some big win or external reward, it’s about giving yourself permission to create, just for the sake of it. Michelle: Okay, but let's bring this down to earth a bit. Most people aren't exactly waltzing back into childhood hobbies without some major mental hurdles. Fear, self-doubt – they're pretty heavy hitters when it comes to creativity, right? What should we do when we encounter those? Alex: Absolutely. Fear is part of everyone’s process. Gilbert describes it as this ever-present but overprotective companion. It’s there, trying to keep us safe from failure or rejection. The trick isn’t to banish it completely – that’s impossible – but to stop giving it the steering wheel. Michelle: So, fear gets downgraded to… the annoying kid in the backseat? Yelling directions, but not actually in charge of where you’re going? Alex: Exactly! And Gilbert’s approach is so empowering. She says, “Fear isn’t inherently bad, it’s just doing its job, even if it oversteps.” So our job, as creators, is to learn to coexist with it. Let it chatter, but keep moving forward anyway. Michelle: Okay, fair enough. Then there’s comparison, especially in our hyper-connected world, where everyone else seems to be killing it on Instagram or TikTok or whatever. It's like, why even bother trying if someone else is already doing it better? Alex: That’s another trap Gilbert points out, feeling like your work has to live up to some outside standard. And she flips the script, creativity isn’t a competition. It’s about authenticity, about exploring and expressing something uniquely your own. As Gilbert says, comparison is the thief of joy, especially when you’re creating. Michelle: So, basically, stay in your lane, follow your curiosity, and try not to obsess over what the person next to you is painting, writing, or knitting. Got it. Alex: Exactly. And Gilbert’s examples really drive this home. Take Jack Gilbert, the poet. He deliberately stepped away from fame, choosing to pursue creativity on his own terms. He just wanted to savor the act of creation itself, not chasing the applause. Michelle: Right, so Jack was like, “I’m just going to sit here and write some stellar poetry, and I don’t need the world banging down my door, thank you very much.” There’s something almost rebellious about that attitude, isn’t there? Alex: Absolutely. It’s a potent reminder that external success doesn’t define creativity. Jack’s life is proof that you can find pure joy and fulfillment in simply making something, without needing to prove anything to anyone. Michelle: Okay, but let’s be real. Choosing that path today is easier said than done. Most people don’t have the luxury to write poetry in obscurity while, you know, keeping the lights on. Alex: That’s true. Gilbert’s not ignoring those real-world constraints. But her point is that creativity doesn’t have to be this extravagant, career-defining thing. It can be very small: trying a new recipe, doodling, building something simply because it brings you a moment of joy. It’s about finding those moments and seeing creativity interwoven into everyday life. Right? Michelle: So, no pressure to deliver a masterpiece, huh? Just pick up a pen, a paintbrush, a spatula, whatever’s handy, and see where it takes you? Alex: Exactly! Gilbert believes that curiosity alone is enough to spark creativity. It doesn’t have to be earth-shattering. That’s why she emphasizes playfulness. Treat your creative experiments like an adventure, not an audition. Michelle: Adventure, not audition – I’ll give her credit, that’s a solid bit of wisdom. And maybe that’s the treasure, or at least the whole point of the treasure hunt, right? It's not about finding some big, shiny prize, but to remember that the hunt itself is what makes life interesting.

Alex: So, that's a perfect segue into our deeper focus today: courage and fear in creativity. We’ve established that creativity is universal, and that “really” sets the stage for addressing the challenges that hold us back. And let's be honest, fear is a big one. But Gilbert doesn't see it as something to eliminate. It's something to live with. And that's where courage comes in—learning to move forward while fear just kind of… sits there. Michelle: Sits quietly in the background? Fear sounds more like the noisy upstairs neighbor who’s always complaining about your loud music. You know, and in this case, your creativity is my jazz music. Alex: That's actually a pretty good analogy. But Gilbert isn't asking us to silence that neighbor. She's suggesting we make peace with them, you know? Fear is a necessary, even natural thing. It's part of being human. It's supposed to protect us from danger, but it doesn't know the difference between, say, dodging a tiger and, you know, painting your first canvas in years. Courage, as Gilbert describes it, isn't about fear disappearing. It's about saying, “Fear, I see you. I acknowledge you. And I'm creating anyway.” Michelle: Okay, so fear's in the room, fine. But how do you stop it from, you know, punching holes in the drywall? Because let's be real, fear's not just a mild inconvenience, right? It loves to spiral. So, what are some ways Gilbert suggests we actually deal with it? Alex: Well, she gives us a few tools to reframe fear's role in the creative process. One is just demystifying it—acknowledging it's part of the deal. It's basically trying to help you avoid failure or rejection, even if it’s, you know, overreacting. She even suggests personifying fear in an imaginary dialogue, granting it permission to exist, but explicitly denying its decision-making power. Think of fear as the passenger in your car—welcome to ride along, you can listen, but you're definitely not allowed to touch the steering wheel. Michelle: So, fear gets to hum obnoxiously from the back seat, but it doesn't dictate the playlist. Got it. But hey, that's easier said than done, right? Especially when fear starts looking like perfectionism in disguise, calling itself “helpful” while trashing every idea you come up with. Alex: Right. And that’s where Gilbert’s idea of creative playfulness comes in. She suggests, you know, lightening the stakes – treating creativity as an adventure instead of a performance. Because fear “really” thrives on the weight of expectations. But if you frame your creativity as a low-pressure experiment, it’s much easier to sidestep its grip. Michelle: Right, so instead of telling yourself, “Okay, I'm writing the Great American Novel,” you say, “I'm just seeing if I can string five sentences together that make sense." Alex: Exactly. Start small. Gilbert even says curiosity is the spark – just asking "What interests me, even slightly?” can break the paralysis. And there's a terrific example in the book, with Susan, her friend who took up figure skating again after decades away. Michelle: Ah, Susan. Our accidental motivational poster child. Let's break this down – what pushed her back onto the ice? Alex: Curiosity, courage, and balance. Susan wasn’t aiming to compete or impress anyone, “really”. She just returned to skating purely for the joy of it. Now, fear still showed up, of course. Whispering, “You're too old,” or "You're going to look silly out there." But courage allowed her to just say, "Thank you for your opinion, fear," and, you know, skate anyway. Michelle: So it wasn't about perfection. No double axels? No judges holding scorecards? Alex: Not at all. Susan shifted her focus from outcomes to the process itself. And that's such a key thing here: creativity doesn’t have to feel monumental or justified. It’s about carving out space to follow threads of curiosity, even with fear just shouting from the sidelines. Michelle: But that’s tough when societal expectations are so loud, too. You’re not just battling inner fears, you know? You’re juggling everyone’s opinions on what success should look like. Alex: True. But Gilbert emphasizes separating creative fulfillment from external validation. She reminds us that most of the judgment we fear is just imagined. People are just far too preoccupied with their own lives to scrutinize ours the way we think they do. Michelle: And even if someone does judge, that’s their problem, not yours. Gilbert “really” drives this home with Jack Gilbert, the poet who just made peace with living outside the limelight. Alex: Exactly. Jack chose a life of quiet authenticity, devoting himself to creativity without chasing fame or applause. He just recognized that true fulfillment comes from the act of creating itself, not external acknowledgement. And it’s the same spirit we’re seeing in Susan’s story - acting on curiosity, and finding freedom in rejecting the need for others’ approval. Michelle: Okay, now let me play devil’s advocate for a sec. What about those of us with bills to pay? I mean, this “create for joy” mantra is inspiring, but at some point, you need to reconcile creativity with, you know, real-world pressures. Alex: Gilbert’s not dismissing those realities at all. She's pointing out that creativity doesn’t have to consume your whole life or your career to be valid. It exists in small, meaningful moments. Trying something new in the kitchen, sketching during your lunch break. It’s about finding joy in the little acts that enrich your day-to-day life. Michelle: So, you know, no pressure to be Van Gogh. Just grab a crayon and see where it takes you. Alex: That's the beauty of her philosophy. Creativity isn’t a performance for others. It “really” is just a gift you give yourself. Gilbert’s whole approach removes the pressure and says, "Focus on what lights you up. Let the rest fall away."

Alex: So, with courage setting the stage, let's dive into “how” we actually do the work of creating since we've established that creativity is universal and fear can be managed. Elizabeth Gilbert talks about three key things: experimentation, playfulness, and commitment. It’s not a straight line, more like... well, a dance with inspiration. Michelle: A dance? Is this, like, a graceful tango or more of a... you know, a chaotic mosh pit situation? Alex: Maybe a little of both! Gilbert's point is that creativity isn't about being perfect or in control. It's really about being curious and okay with things not being perfect. It's like giving yourself permission to just see what happens. Michelle: Okay, I get the free-flowing vibe, but let’s talk about inspiration. 'Cause without an idea, all that curiosity just leads to a bunch of blank pages, right? Alex: Exactly! That's where Gilbert's idea of "partnering" with inspiration comes in. She says inspiration is almost a living thing, a collaborator that needs our attention. Ideas are out there, looking for someone to bring them to life. But they’re also kind of... flighty. Ignore them, and they might just move on. Michelle: So, ideas are like those demanding little kids? They want your undivided attention, or they’re gonna throw a tantrum and find someone else to play with. Alex: Kind of, yeah! She tells this story about her abandoned novel, Amazónia Evelyn. She had this great idea set in the Amazon, but she got busy with another project. When she finally came back to it, the spark was gone. The idea had moved on. That was a tough lesson for her: ideas need to be nurtured when they show up. Michelle: Ouch. So if you ditch your ideas, they’ll ditch you right back. Harsh, but fair, I guess. Alex: Exactly! And Gilbert doesn’t just feel sorry for herself. She takes it as a reminder to stay open. The fascinating part is her story about Ann Patchett. They both independently came up with almost the exact same idea – a book in the Amazon – around the time Gilbert lost her connection to Amazónia Evelyn. Instead of getting competitive about it, Gilbert saw it as proof that ideas float between people. Michelle: Wow, so these concepts are just floating around in some kind of creative atmosphere, waiting for someone to grab them. But does that mean you can miss out on a great idea if you're not quick enough? Alex: Definitely. It’s a reminder to show up for the inspiration when it hits you. Gilbert thinks creativity is a partnership, and it deserves respect and attention. But she also thinks there's always another idea coming. You don't need to panic if one gets away. Michelle: Okay, good to know the idea well isn’t running dry anytime soon. Let’s switch gears to something more practical. Once you’ve got an idea, Gilbert seems to really emphasize playfulness to keep things from getting too serious, right? Alex: Definitely. Playfulness is super important to her. She talks about approaching creativity with curiosity and experimentation, not pressure. Basically, letting yourself explore – and even fail – with a light attitude. Michelle: Easier said than done, right? Most adults aren’t exactly known for being lighthearted. We think everything has to be productive, or at least perfect. Alex: Exactly, which is why Gilbert’s approach is so great. She wants us to embrace imperfection, and see creativity as play. She suggests trying new forms of expression – stepping outside your comfort zone. She's talked about doing sketches or hobbies that she wasn't great at, but that made her feel excited again. Michelle: So, keep the stakes low. Focus less on creating something amazing and more on... just messing around and having fun? Alex: Exactly! Gilbert also points out that creativity can really thrive in social, playful environments. She’s seen her friends get together for spontaneous creative projects, where it’s more about laughing and collaborating than achieving some specific goal. That energy really opens things up – it makes creativity feel natural and fun, not like a chore. Michelle: It's a great reminder that creativity doesn't have to be a lonely thing. Sometimes the best ideas come from bouncing things off someone or just having fun with a group. But at some point, don’t you have to get serious? Inspiration and playfulness will only take you so far if you don't actually do the work. Alex: Absolutely, and that’s where commitment comes in – it’s really the foundation of the creative process. Gilbert talks about making a "contract of creation." It's about showing up for your work consistently, even when you’re not feeling inspired or you’re doubting yourself. Michelle: Right, you can't just wait for inspiration to strike again. I’m curious, though – how does Gilbert deal with the grind? You know, those days when everything you try feels pointless? Alex: She's really honest about the fact that creativity often involves failure and frustration. But her perspective is what makes the difference. Gilbert thinks that finishing something – even if it’s not perfect – is more valuable than trying for something unattainable. Every completed piece, no matter how small, is a step forward. Michelle: And that's good to hear, isn’t it? Knowing that even the messy stuff counts. Letting go of perfection might be the hardest part, though and the voice in your head says "This isn’t good enough. Why even bother?" Alex: It’s a struggle most creators face. But Gilbert encourages us to be kind to ourselves. The process itself – not the final product – is where the real magic is. And to keep that momentum going, she emphasizes discipline. Show up at the same time each day, create whether you feel like it or not, and trust that the process will get you through those tough times. Michelle: Okay, so it’s less about waiting for a flash of brilliance and more about turning on the light, sitting down at your desk, and seeing what happens. Alex: Exactly. Gilbert gives us practical ways to make the process less scary: treat creativity like play, let go of the need to be perfect, be disciplined, and always stay curious. Those are the tools that will help anyone on this creative journey. Michelle: And there's something “really” human about that. You’re not chasing applause or some impossible ideal – you’re just showing up to make something real, no matter how small, for the sheer joy of it.

Alex: So that hands-on approach really gets you thinking about the bigger picture, doesn't it? Which neatly brings us to today's topic: the transformative power of creativity. We’re not just talking about personal enrichment here, but the wider impact—on our emotional well-being, our sense of purpose, and even how we connect with communities and cultures around us. Michelle: So, instead of just seeing creativity as a solo act, we're pulling back to see how it affects everything else? Like dropping a pebble in a lake and watching those ripples spread? Alex: Exactly! Creativity is way more than the sum of its parts, it’s a real force for personal and societal change. Elizabeth Gilbert sees it as a sanctuary for renewal, a way to connect with ourselves and the world. And, as she shows with those real-life stories, even the smallest creative acts can lead to the biggest changes. Take Clive James, for example. Michelle: Ah, a story! Alright, Alex, tell me about Clive. What's his situation? Alex: Clive James was in a tough spot. He was feeling pretty down, weighed down by professional disappointments and feeling like a failure. But then his daughters asked him to do something pretty simple: paint their secondhand bikes. Now, on the surface, that seems like nothing, right? But it was about the creative energy it unlocked. Michelle: So, this is a story about someone who flipped from hating creativity to embracing it again... by playing around with paint and bicycle wheels? Alex: Basically, yeah. Clive poured his energy and imagination into it, painting the bikes with vibrant reds, silvers, and these fun stars. It was playful, it was meticulous, and, most importantly, it brought back a sense of joy he thought he'd lost. By focusing on a creative task, no matter how small, he started to climb out of his funk. And that positive energy spilled over into the rest of his life, and eventually helped him reconnect with his storytelling. Michelle: That's quite a turnaround. But, Alex, come on—most people wouldn't see painting bikes as some life-changing experience. What made it different for him? Alex: It wasn’t “really” about the act itself, but about his mindset when doing it. Gilbert stresses that creativity doesn't have to be this grand thing or be tied to any sort of measurable success to make an impact. It’s about giving yourself permission to put your focus into something playful and meaningful. By putting his effort and care into that small project, Clive reignited that creative spark that was buried under all that self-doubt. Michelle: So, creativity doesn't have to be this grand, capital-C "Creation." Sometimes it's just doing something... because it makes you feel alive. Alex: Exactly! And Clive's story isn't unique. It shows a universal truth: small creative acts—whether doodling, baking, maybe fixing something—can profoundly affect our emotional well-being. It’s about reconnecting with ourselves in a very human, nourishing way. Michelle: Alright, I get it. But let’s shift gears here and talk about creativity on a larger scale. What about when it's not just about one person finding their spark, but when whole communities come together through creative expression? Alex: That’s where creativity becomes this incredible cultural bridge-builder. A great example is Balinese dance. Traditionally, it was performed in religious ceremonies—deeply sacred, rooted in storytelling and spirituality. But in the 1960s, with tourism booming, the dance evolved to meet the expectations of global audiences. Michelle: So, spiritual art meets commercial interests. Did the tradition survive the transition, or did it buckle under the pressure? Alex: It adapted! The dancers kept their core spiritual narratives, but they added more visually stunning elements to appeal to those international audiences. And that’s the beauty of it—they managed to keep their cultural richness while making their art accessible to a wider world. Michelle: Interesting—a form of creative fusion without losing its soul. So, instead of getting watered down, the tradition actually became more vibrant, right? Alex: Exactly. It’s a powerful reminder that creativity thrives on adaptability. By embracing change with innovation rather than resisting it, the Balinese dance community showed how artistic expression can both respect tradition and build new relationships. It’s a great example of how creativity bridges seemingly different worlds. Michelle: And it also proves that creativity isn't static. It lives, breathes, and grows with its environment. But Alex, here's a thought: doesn't adapting something sacred to suit commercial tastes... dilute its authenticity a bit? Alex: That's a fair question, but I think it comes down to perspective. Gilbert would argue that the core of creativity is its ability to evolve. The Balinese dancers weren’t abandoning their spirituality—they were sharing it in a way that invited others in. So creativity, in this case, becomes a vehicle for deeper understanding and connection. Michelle: So it’s not so much losing something as expanding its reach. I can see that. But tell me—how can everyday people tap into this transformative creativity in their own lives? Not everyone’s painting bikes or staging elaborate cross-cultural dances. Alex: That’s a great question. Gilbert highlights three key things you can do every day to help you nurture creativity: focus on the journey more than the result, stay curious rather than trying to be perfect, and engage in collective or collaborative acts of creation. Michelle: Focusing on the process... so basically, don’t worry about making it “good,” just lose yourself in doing it. Alex: Exactly. Clive’s story is a perfect example, it wasn’t about making the most flawless bicycles. It was about the act of painting them itself, the energy it brought into his life. Letting go of needing perfection allows us to dive deeper into creative freedom. Michelle: And maintain curiosity? That makes sense, too. It keeps you moving forward rather than giving up because you’re scared to fail. Alex: Exactly. And creating with others—the communal aspect—you see that in things like choirs, community theater, or even just friends working on a project together. It creates a sense of connection, strengthens relationships, and makes being creative even more enjoyable. Michelle: Alright, so it’s about not overthinking, keeping your curiosity alive, and remembering you don’t have to do it all alone. Sounds doable... even for skeptics like me. Alex: That’s the best part! Creativity is for everyone.

Alex: Absolutely. Seeing creativity as a powerful force really opens you up to a whole new way of looking at life. And that brings us to something Elizabeth Gilbert talks about a lot, which is how we define success, and how we bounce back from setbacks. It's about changing your whole mindset about what it means to be successful in a creative field. It's not about awards or anything like that, but about joy, commitment, and personal growth. Michelle: So, you're saying we should take creativity out of the awards arena and treat it as a personal journey? That sounds…ambitious. When she says “redefine success,” what's she really getting at? Alex: Well, Gilbert wants us to stop thinking that success is all about outside stuff – fame, money, you know? Instead, she thinks we should measure it by how fulfilled we feel inside. For her, success is really about getting into the creative process itself, no matter what happens. It's about enjoying making things, instead of just worrying about what people will think. Michelle: That's a tough one for a lot of people, right? I mean, what if you spend years working on something incredible, like some kind of novel or business idea? And it just tanks. It's hard not to feel like a total failure, right? Sure, the process was fun or whatever, but how do you get over that feeling? Alex: Right, well, that's where resilience comes in. Gilbert says failure is part of the deal. You can't avoid it when you're creating. What matters is bouncing back. Resilience means dusting yourself off after every “no,” every letdown, and just…keep creating, you know, because you love it. Michelle: Easier said than done, right? How do you get to a point where you don't just fall apart after a setback? How do you just keep going instead of, you know, giving up completely? Alex: It takes time, for sure. Gilbert has some great stories about this. She talks about how she got tons of rejection letters early in her career. No one wanted her writing. But she kept at it because she loved writing itself. She sold like, what, ten copies of her first story? But she didn’t care. She just kept focusing on how much she enjoyed the process. Michelle: So, she was writing with zero guarantees of success. No crowds of admirers. Talk about dedication. But, honestly, don't you just want those screaming fans, at least a little? Alex: Of course! And Gilbert isn't saying you shouldn't enjoy the praise. But she's saying your creative work isn’t valuable only if you get external validation. She kept writing, even after all the rejection, because she really loved the process. That's what kept her going, and that’s what created a fulfilling career for her, way before she ever became famous. Michelle: Okay, so you change your definition of success. Great. But you're still going to run into walls. Which is where her idea of resilience comes in, right? What does that look like when you’re actually doing it? Alex: She tells a story about trashing a whole manuscript, a finished book, because it just wasn’t working. Can you imagine? All that time, all that work…gone. But she didn't get stuck on that. She just, let it go, and started on a new project. That ability to pivot, to keep moving forward despite setbacks, that’s resilience. Michelle: Wait, she trashed the whole thing? That's intense! Wouldn't most people try to salvage something from that? Alex: Sometimes, yeah. But for her, the story just wasn't right. And by letting it go, she was open to writing something more authentic, which helped her grow as a writer. So, it’s not about throwing everything away, but about knowing when to cut your losses, forgive yourself, and move on. Michelle: That's tough—at least emotionally. I mean, intellectually, you can say that failure is a stepping stone, but it's harder when you've put so much heart into something. Alex: Exactly, and that’s why you need to reframe failure. Gilbert thinks you should see it as something that makes you stronger, like a “really” harsh teacher that shapes you. Instead of seeing it as defeating you. And she's like, just keep creating. Focus on the next thing, the next little experiment. That keeps you from getting stuck on what didn’t work. Michelle: Right, so you say, "Thanks for the lesson, failure!" Then you move on because you've got stuff to do. How do you actually make that easier, you know? How do you quiet that voice in your head that says, "You failed. You're a failure"? Alex: Gilbert suggests changing how you talk to yourself. Don't tell yourself stories about being inadequate or defeated. Focus on why you're creating in the first place. Remind yourself, "I love doing this," or, "It's a process. It doesn't have to be perfect." Be kinder and more understanding with yourself. Michelle: That goes back to what you were saying about creativity not being something you do for other people. It's for you. So, even if nobody notices or cares, it still matters. Alex: Exactly. To support that, she offers some practical things you can do. I love how she says to treat creative projects like experiments. That way, you’re less afraid, right? Michelle: So instead of a masterpiece, it's more like, "What if I try this weird thing?" Alex: Right! She even says you should do other activities that aren't really related to your main creative thing, just to have fun. She knows this friend who took up brush painting and crochet, just to find joy in the process. Michelle: I'm guessing that this wasn't about becoming the next great artist. It was about giving herself permission to play, fail, recover, and keep going. Alex: Exactly. And Gilbert also emphasizes momentum. Staying in motion helps with creative blocks. Even something small, like gardening, can get your creative energy flowing. Michelle: So, as long as you’re doing something — arranging flowers or working on a poem — you’re still keeping the creative fire burning. Alex: Right. Her message is simple: success isn’t about applause, and resilience isn’t about never failing. It’s about letting yourself keep going, enjoying the process, and just being curious.

Alex: Okay, let's quickly recap what we've discussed today. We kicked things off by stating that creativity is universal—it's a natural human trait hardwired into all of us. Then, we talked about fear being an inevitable sidekick in the creative process, but one that we definitely shouldn’t let steer the ship. Finally, we dove into the creative process itself, emphasizing experimentation, playfulness, and dedication. So creativity isn’t about achieving massive success, it's about finding genuine joy in the act of creating. Michelle: Precisely, and we didn’t sidestep the hard issues either, like failure, rejection, and those pesky societal pressures. Gilbert's viewpoint highlights that resilience is what truly changes the game—turning failures into valuable lessons and redefining success as personal fulfillment, not just a highlight reel for others to watch. Alex: Exactly! And that brings us to our final point: creativity isn't about churning out masterpieces or chasing applause. It’s about showing up, staying curious, and embracing creative acts—no matter how big or small—in ways that truly enrich your life. Michelle: So, whether you’re sketching in a notebook, baking a cake, rearranging your living room, or even, I don’t know, painting bicycles, remember—it’s the journey that counts. The joy, the curiosity, the sense of adventure. Not necessarily the final outcome. Alex: Exactly. Creativity isn’t a chore; it’s a gift you give yourself. So go out there, explore, play, and let your curiosity lead you somewhere new and interesting. Michelle: And whatever you end up creating—big or small—don’t forget to enjoy every step of the way!